Very true big fish fan. I think the therapy for Penny is to send him to AAA for a while to cool him off. Put him in baseball "time out". Then when he gets over himself, he can come back up and contribute.

again.

 

where was all this talk after the Oakland game or after the Texas game?

-Ramp, those are individual stats, baseball is a team sport. Penny is a brat and he lowers morale. The W's matter more to me as a fan because that means he got his job done! The L's mean he didn't! It's that simple.

 

-If he pitches well i would ask two questions?

1)Who was the team he faced?

2)Why did he win? (Offense/Defense/Pitching)

i wasn't a member of the forum. I have followed this team since inception. I think Penny is just wanting to be cocky and he has no right to be, he isn't the team's star. HE MUST GET OVER HIMSELF!

ramp, "where was all this talk..."

 

this talk is where everything is when things are going good...swept under the rug. You don't want to talk about it, but just because you can't see it is it not there?

 

When you get in a fight with a loved one (wife/gf/mom/etc) don't old things that you didn't bring up when things where going well get brought up? Same is true for this, if you hide something you hope it don't show its ugly little head, but in this case...it has in the past...it has today...it will somewhere down the road. How long til you decide to check under that rug and see what is really there rather than playing make believe as if everything is ok? :mischief2

Amen bigfishfan

I would take him as my closer/setup man any day! Better than Nunez

DT is better than Nunez... yep.. my nasty 4 seam fastball can reach upto 85mph. I got a nasty 78mph Circle Change and a 69mph curveball that we leave you thinking.

DT on the mound for The Fish the closeout the game for his 15th straight save opportunity. He has only ben signed for 20 marlins games, so he has been dominating. Gagne and Smoltz have competition... He sets, winds, deal, and STRIIIIKE. Save number 15! Fish win!

:::crickets chirping:::

 

 

:::long pause:::

 

 

:::crowd chants:::

 

 

"Big...Fish...Fan...Big...Fish...Fan..."

 

 

Well this arguement is dead so im going to bed.

Good night, I guess I must have bored them to sleep! LOL

mostly silly posts...Penny is an above average,, but inconsistent starter in this league. He should never be converted to a bullen guy..I do agree that he an attitude problem, but we need to keep him starting to keep his value high.

I think he is a better pen guy. Pen guys have to be above average in order to dominate. All he has to do is change his attitude and he is fine! He will not be traded, he is good, the attitude can change and will change. A good bullpen guy is worth more than a starter because they are rare.

I can guarantee Penny stays in the starting rotation. Who the heck are we gonna put in that will do better than him? I agree with Ramp wholeheartedly.

 

1) He had an ERA of under 4.00 before this game...thats better than most pitchers in the MLB! He's inconsistent.....ok, well as inconsistent as he is, he has enough bad games to still keep that ERA under 4.00.

2) I'm sure Jack will make a much better decision than us fans. What yall are saying about him being stubborn, not wanting to throw anything but fastballs is all speculation. We get one quote about him being upset that Jack pulled him a few starts ago, and all of a sudden he's a cancer to the team?

3) MOST IMPORTANT: Who are we gonna put in? Tejera? Phelps is already the weakest link in our rotation. If we take Penny out of the rotation now, we have Tejera, Phelps, Pavano, Redman, and Willis. Who can honestly say they would rather Tejera start than Penny? Or for that matter Phelps over Penny? No one! If Tejera isnt the replacement, who is? Olsen? LOL! Should we find out where Knotts is? We gonna find Vlad Nunez? He started a few seasons ago. The fact is, Penny is one of the better NL starting pitchers....there is no one we can replace him with. So we wait and put him in the pen when Beckett comes back. I'd still rather Penny be starting instead of Phelps...sheesh.

 

Yall are "trippin" if you think Penny should be dropped. I cant think of any starting pitcher who who has a 3.50 ERA, has a bad game (NO MATTER HOW BAD) and gets taken out of the rotation.

 

The whole idea is obscene! It shouldn't even be thought of. Get Phelps out of the rotation before Penny.

You couldnt be more wrong about Penny not caring. No one cares more than this guy. I talked to him after the game and he was very upset. He felt really bad for the team as he lost that early lead. He said they just hit everything he threw, good or bad. He did throw pitches other than the fast ball right down the middle. I guess since you dont know him personally, you see some gesture that makes you think he doesnt care, knowing him the way I do, I saw an upset Brad that wasnt able for whatever reason, to take command. As far as Mckeon and Penny, the relationship is fine. As for the comment that maybe he wants to be traded, thats why he pitched poorly, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. First of all, he loves Florida. Second, if that were the case, pitching poorly is not the way to go about it. If he could have pitched a no hitter last night he would have. He is very aware of era, etc. For those of you that are ready to trade him or send him to the bullpen, consider this tidbit. If Aj is out 1 1/2 years, he comes back with only a half season, he probably will take a little time to get back in the groove after not pitching for so long, then he has one year left on his contract. I wouldnt be surprised if the Marlins "Dont" yes I said "DONT" tender his contract.

Dawg, I'll take your word for it as you know him and I don't. I was three rows off the field and could see Penny like he was in my livingroom, perhaps that look on his face wasn't one of apathy, maybe it was shell shock. But he sure didn't look like a guy who was trying to help his team compete for a WC spot.

As for AJ, I wouldn't be surprised either if they don't tender him a contract. Time will tell.

Thank you Shamrock and FurmanGator. A guy has his ups and downs through the season and you all are talking bullpen and AAA. Give me a break. Coming into the game with a 3.5 ERA, that's pretty good in my book. Besides, what better option is there to take over his spot in the rotation?

 

Yeah Penny stunk up the place last night and I couldn't be angrier that he's pissed away leads early in 2 of his last 3 starts.

 

"Maybe [Penny] was trying to overpower a few guys and they made him pay for it." -- Catcher Mike Redmond on Brad Penny's rough outing Wednesday.

 

This is his problem. As someone stated earlier in this thread he's not Burnett or Roger Clemens. And besides, even those guys use other pitches.

 

Also, this talk about Penny not "looking like he cares".... Do Castillo and Encarnacion show emotion when they go 0-4 or hit into a double-play? What is it you'd like to see Penny do? Stomp around on the mound and pout? He didn't have it last night, plain and simple. Red should've walked out there, kicked his asss around and suggested he might think about mixing in a freaking CURVE BALL or two.

A look on a face is how you know if he cares? What the...? Almost every pitcher is like that, when taken out of the game. Is he supposed to start crying out there? Is he supposed to throw a temper tantrum? Kick dirt around, throw his glove, flick off the crowd, punch Jack? Cmon now. I can hardly call facial reaction a good indicator. If I were out there pitching, and had a crappy start, I would try showing as little emotion as possible. There is a little thing most guys have called pride.

If he wants to help this team, he should as Tommy Hutton said on TV a while back "Warmup well before the game." Next, why is it that individual stats like his era are so important in this conversation? He has blown two early leads and has gone on to lose the game. The Win is more important to the team than his ERA! AAA (Baseball Time Out) is if he is in a war with McKeon, which according to you he isn't, but every press source quotes him as blaming McKeon for Angels Blown Game. I believe he is one of the most talented pitchers in baseball, but his attitude must change. If he will not warmup then he will fail! He can get hurt, lose a lead, and be shell shocked. He has been given a golden oppurtunity to step up and help the team. Instead Willis, Redman, and Pavano- who haven't been on the team nearly as long have stepped up on their own and little more to cover up everyone else. Three pitchers cannot support the entire pitching staff!

 

***By the way facial indicator is only a good indicator in certain people, and Penny is not one of them. Willis is one of them, Penny isn't.

If he wants to help this team, he should as Tommy Hutton said on TV a while back "Warmup well before the game." Next, why is it that individual stats like his era are so important in this conversation? He has blown two early leads and has gone on to lose the game. The Win is more important to the team than his ERA! AAA (Baseball Time Out) is if he is in a war with McKeon, which according to you he isn't, but every press source quotes him as blaming McKeon for Angels Blown Game. I believe he is one of the most talented pitchers in baseball, but his attitude must change. If he will not warmup then he will fail! He can get hurt, lose a lead, and be shell shocked. He has been given a golden oppurtunity to step up and help the team. Instead Willis, Redman, and Pavano- who haven't been on the team nearly as long have stepped up on their own and little more to cover up everyone else. Three pitchers cannot support the entire pitching staff!

 

***By the way facial indicator is only a good indicator in certain people, and Penny is not one of them. Willis is one of them, Penny isn't.

He didn't "blame McKeon" for the loss. He didn't think he deserved to be taken out when he was, but certainly didn't blame the coach for the team losing. He wanted to stay in the game and keep it together. McKeon thought differently. I don't mind him at all wanting to stay in and at least give 6 or 7 innings. He was still wrong to whine about it though.

 

Ok fine, let's say wins mean more than ERA. Penny's 5-5. That's not worth a demotion to AAA. Pavano's 5-7, so has he done worse than Penny?

Carl Pavano made two "sacrifice" outings for the team, this was a main reason for Torborg's firing (in my opinion). He came in the 20 Inning Marlins-Cards Game. (One Lost for Him) Then two days later he started against the D-Backs and got pounded. (Second Lost for Him) So that means two outings in 3 days for a starting pitcher. He was being a team player, problem was Torborg screwed him.

 

Tuesday's performance was good, Seo and the Mets just out deuled him, Penny was not beat by Met's pitching, he was beat by Met's hitting giving up an early three run lead.

By the way, Demotion is only punishment for insubbordination. If the Old Man sees it as the best option HE WILL DO IT!

 

New Topic: Could Penny be tipping pitches?

lol, insubordination? Come on now...seriously. We know NOTHING about what is going on. 99.9% chance there is nothing going on...and he will NOT get sent down to AAA. lol...I seriously cant believe this is a thread.

tipping pitches? Do yall just make guesses out of the blue about what could be wrong? Maybe he had a bad game.

 

If we are into the guessing, my guess is a hangnail on his ring finger of his pitching hand. That, and he stubbed his toe too hard on the rubber before pitching the 2nd inning. There. Thats my guess.

This thread is over, it died. I hope there is nothing going on and I was wrong, but Penny has acted very weirdly since McKen took over. He wasn't as inconsistent with Torborg. He didn't blow early leads as often with Jeff as with the Old Man. Hopefully it was a bad night.

You guys are crazy. In Penny's last start he threw 7 shutout innings and was named MVP of that game, and now you want to send him down to AAA after one bad start. This is nonsense.