Missouri votes to ban gay marriage

[Das Texan]

Also, when Florida left the union to join the confederacy, it didn't have to go back in theory. Obviously it is better as a part of the US, but it was a soverign decision.

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Neither did any of hte states that left. What is your point?

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My point is that all states, whether original members of the union or not, are entitled to the basic rights the constitution allows the states to have. There is no way in hell that Washington can allow Georgia to ban gay marriage because it was one of the 13 original states and not Florida because we joined later.

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when did I say they could?

 

 

 

besides the Civil War changed a lot of things anyway in terms of states rights and the whole issue of secession.

 

 

what's funny is that 4 more states could be added to the United States at any time if a certain place wished this to be so.

[CapeFish]

Also, when Florida left the union to join the confederacy, it didn't have to go back in theory. Obviously it is better as a part of the US, but it was a soverign decision.

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Neither did any of hte states that left. What is your point?

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My point is that all states, whether original members of the union or not, are entitled to the basic rights the constitution allows the states to have. There is no way in hell that Washington can allow Georgia to ban gay marriage because it was one of the 13 original states and not Florida because we joined later.

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when did I say they could?

 

 

 

besides the Civil War changed a lot of things anyway in terms of states rights and the whole issue of secession.

 

 

what's funny is that 4 more states could be added to the United States at any time if a certain place wished this to be so.

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It wasn't you, but someone else in this thread.

[Das Texan]

A little bit of History to refresh one's mind:

 

Britain gained control of Florida in 1763 in exchange for Havana, Cuba, which the British had captured from Spain during the Seven Years? War (1756?63).

Spain evacuated Florida after the exchange, leaving the province virtually empty. At that time, St. Augustine was still a garrison community with fewer than five hundred houses, and Pensacola also was a small military town.

 

When the British evacuated Florida, Spanish colonists as well as settlers from the newly formed United States came pouring in. Many of the new residents were lured by favorable Spanish terms for acquiring property, called land grants. Others who came were escaped slaves, trying to reach a place where their U.S. masters had no authority and effectively could not reach them. Instead of becoming more Spanish, the two Floridas increasingly became more "American." Finally, after several official and unofficial U.S. military expeditions into the territory, Spain formally ceded Florida to the United States in 1821, according to terms of the Adams-On?s Treaty.

 

Andrew Jackson returned to Florida in 1821 to establish a new territorial government on behalf of the United States. What the U.S. inherited was a wilderness sparsely dotted with settlements of native Indian people, African Americans, and Spaniards.

 

Florida became the twenty-seventh state in the United States on March 3, 1845. William D. Moseley was elected the new state?s first governor, and David Levy Yulee, one of Florida?s leading proponents for statehood, became a U.S. Senator. By 1850 the population had grown to 87,445, including about 39,000 African American slaves and 1,000 free blacks.

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see what Cape is trying to argue is that since Spain didnt really care about Florida from 1818-21 they were soverign...when they were really still a Spanish colony....therefore making it technically impossible to be soverign.

[CapeFish]

Was the Continental Congress soverign when it wrote the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, 1776?

[Das Texan]

were they soverign? no.

 

 

did they declare soverignity with that little document? yes.

 

 

 

when did florida do this?

[CapeFish]

were they soverign? no.

 

 

did they declare soverignity with that little document? yes.

 

 

 

when did florida do this?

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Look up the Isle of Eight Flags, the day Florida left the Union, and the day Florida rejoined the Union

[CapeFish]

http://www.ameliamaritime.com/tour/amelia.html

[Das Texan]

were they soverign? no.

 

 

did they declare soverignity with that little document? yes.

 

 

 

when did florida do this?

494716[/snapback]

Look up the Isle of Eight Flags, the day Florida left the Union, and the day Florida rejoined the Union

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and this was recognized by whom?

 

 

the Conferedate States was formally recognized by European nations.

 

 

the United States while in war with the British was recognized by European nations.

 

 

hell even the Republic of Texas was recognized by European nations.

 

 

When exactly was any independent state of Florida recognized by anyone other than Florida people.

 

 

even during the time of the isle of eight flags, Florida had no real legal right to become soverign as they were still a Spanish colony, the citizens simply chose to fly their own flag becuase of the bastard Spanish nation not caring anymore about Florida...

 

I mean I guess I could put up a flag over a strip of land and call it soverign..doesnt make it a legal and recognized form of soverignity, even if some 100 years later some festival is started in honor of this.

 

 

as far as the day Florida left and reentered the Union...I have no clue what point you are trying to make there.

[CapeFish]

Das,

 

A soverign state can do what it please. The point is Florida was not forced into the United States, the Confederacy, and was not forced to reenter the United States.

[Das Texan]

and BTW cape...

 

 

 

 

you said Florida.

 

 

when did Amelia Island become a representative of the entire state of Florida?

[CapeFish]

and BTW cape...

 

 

 

 

you said Florida.

 

 

when did Amelia Island become a representative of the entire state of Florida?

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When I say Florida, we obviously speak of that part of the state formally known as East Florida. The area around Jacksonville known as the First Coast was the population center in East Florida at the time. This island was a large part of the population's home. It is still part of Florida just like San Antonio is part of Texas.

[CapeFish]

Das, why do you keep arguing? The point is that someone posted that because Florida is not what they would call a soverign state, that we should not have state's rights.

[Das Texan]

Amelia Island is 13 miles long X 2.5 miles wide.

 

How big could the population ever of been here?

 

I highly doubt that this Island is known as East Florida....maybe a portion of East Florida...but that has to be it.

 

 

If it is then that is simply idiotic.

 

Why are we even comparing San Antonio to Ameila Island.

 

 

I never have even said anything about the city flying flags on its own and calling themselves soverign.

 

 

I'm talking about the state and all...what exactly are you trying to argue?

 

 

that this small strip of land was a rebel land for a few days and then went under hte flag of someone else? even though they were never recognized as a soverign land?

 

 

furthermore....since when does Amelia Island raising their own flag equate Florida being soverign?

[Das Texan]

Das, why do you keep arguing? The point is that someone posted that because Florida is not what they would call a soverign state, that we should not have state's rights.

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Because you are wrong.

 

 

And Florida has never been recognized by ANYONE as being soverign.

[CapeFish]

Florida was soverign enough to decide to be come a state, leave the union and then return. The bottom line is we deserve the same rights as the other states.

 

Missouri voted to ban gay marriage and the feds can do nothing about it.

[Das Texan]

then why did you single out Florida as one of the two states along with teh original 13 with differnet soverignity rights at one time?

[CapeFish]

then why did you single out Florida as one of the two states along with teh original 13 with differnet soverignity rights at one time?

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Because it was not carved out of the mass Louisiana Purchase or other land buys into states like the others. We were brought in as a state and recognized that we were seperate from the federal government and would part of a union. We had a state government older than the federal government and therefore had our own soverign state rights.

[Das Texan]

Utah, Arizona, Ohio, etc werent not bought neither.

[CapeFish]

Utah, Arizona, Ohio, etc werent not bought neither.

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So should they not be able to make soverign choices independent of the other states, the right of which is granted in the constitution, because they weren't an original state or once completely soverign of any country?

[g8trz2003]

Um, Cape discusses East and West Florida and not "Florida" as a whole because people pretty much only lived in West Florida and East Florida.

 

East Florida claimed independence in 1812, and later in 1817. West Florida became a state in 1810...The Republic of West Florida. (no it was not a state of the US, but a state no less).

 

Also, it's a general rule that states must want to become a part of the U.S. Texas didn't just wake up one day and say "hey! We're part of the U.S.! How the hell did that happen?"

 

Neither did Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, etc.

 

And Florida sure as hell was sovereign in 1861...it brings a tear to my eye to read this:

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

 

It'll take another secession or total meltdown of our government for it to actually be "for the people" again. What a shame.

[g8trz2003]

And thank you Das, for getting us topic.

 

Thank you, tonyi for getting us back ON topic.

[Das Texan]

And Florida sure as hell was sovereign in 1861...it brings a tear to my eye to read this:

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

 

It'll take another secession or total meltdown of our government for it to actually be "for the people" again. What a shame.

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um....and they became a conquered nation in effect....didnt Florida have to re-write the Constitution after the Civil War?

[CapeFish]

And Florida sure as hell was sovereign in 1861...it brings a tear to my eye to read this:

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

 

It'll take another secession or total meltdown of our government for it to actually be "for the people" again. What a shame.

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um....and they became a conquered nation in effect....didnt Florida have to re-write the Constitution after the Civil War?

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We are in the third revision now.

[g8trz2003]

yes, every Southern state had to. What a great man Lincoln was

 

They had to rewrite their Constitution and ratify the Ammendment in order to get back into the country. Interesting concept when you think about it: They had to ratify the ammendment (which you can't ratify unless you are a state) to become a state. Interesting reasoning by the Lincoln regime (yah, I meant regime).

 

Now das, can we get back on topic please?

[Das Texan]

yes, every Southern state had to. What a great man Lincoln was

 

They had to rewrite their Constitution and ratify the Ammendment in order to get back into the country. Interesting concept when you think about it: They had to ratify the ammendment (which you can't ratify unless you are a state) to become a state. Interesting reasoning by the Lincoln regime (yah, I meant regime).

 

Now das, can we get back on topic please?

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boo hoo too bad.

 

 

bottom line is that the Confederate States lost. Fact. Lee surrendered the command to Chamberlain. Deal with the consequences. I mean hell even I know that there is no way in hell Texas could ever successfully secede from the United States without repercussions. The Civil War changed that.

 

 

threads take on lives of their own Furman. thats called message boards.