gobucks Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 This guy has never been that good and Jack continues to use him in tough spots. Other than when he was in Atlanta, throughout his career he has been a below average pitcher. why does he all of sudden think he is going to get guys out in tough spots? Why no Koch? Before the trade he was pitching well and then they stopped using him. I am getting sick of seeing Rudy lose games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2k3Champs Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Koch doesn't do good in tough spots. When he is in a tough situation he walks a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geemoney Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Maybe because Seanez has done well since he got here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBMarlin Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Because Seanez has a wicked slider when he is on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Because Seanez has a wicked slider when he is on? 554260[/snapback] and when he mixes his fastball in or at least throws it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Koch should NEVER be near a critical situation. He flat out sucks...before and after the trade. That said Jack made the mistake last night...actually a repeated mistake he made a few weeks ago by not bringing in Benitez in a life and death 8th inning situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Seanez has been solid. I don't blame Jack at all for putting him in there. You can't bring Benitez in every time there's a threat in the late innings. Our bullpen consists of more than a couple of guys. If you can't utilize a couple of other guys in those situations, you got bigger problems. The game was tied with 2 down. Jack was hoping to get D-Lee out, get the lead in the top of the 9th, and bring Benitez in to save it in the bottom of the 9th... If Benitez comes in there, perserves the tie, then we don't get the lead in the 9th, we may go into extra innings without our closer avaiable.... Sure, argue that we never got the chance to go that far, but Jack played it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBMarlin Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Seanez has been solid. I don't blame Jack at all for putting him in there. You can't bring Benitez in every time there's a threat in the late innings. Our bullpen consists of more than a couple of guys. If you can't utilize a couple of other guys in those situations, you got bigger problems. The game was tied with 2 down. Jack was hoping to get D-Lee out, get the lead in the top of the 9th, and bring Benitez in to save it in the bottom of the 9th... If Benitez comes in there, perserves the tie, then we don't get the lead in the 9th, we may go into extra innings without our closer avaiable.... Sure, argue that we never got the chance to go that far, but Jack played it right. 554279[/snapback] Agreed. Mota is usually lights out, but caught a few bad bounces. It happens. Jack should play it the same way again, given the chance. 8 times out of 10 the result will be positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I'm strongly against the "save your closer until the 9th inning when you have the lead philosophy." It just doesnt make any sense...especially in late innings. Dont think in terms of closers. Think in terms of this is my best pitcher and he will pitch in the most critical situation (i.e. lead in danger in the 8th, people on base, others struggling) otherwise why even have him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatOne Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I'm strongly against the "save your closer until the 9th inning when you have the lead philosophy." It just doesnt make any sense...especially in late innings. Dont think in terms of closers. Think in terms of this is my best pitcher and he will pitch in the most critical situation (i.e. lead in danger in the 8th, people on base, others struggling) otherwise why even have him? 554299[/snapback] Agreed I was telling my brother in the game why the f*** didnt Jack put Benetiz in. I mean one-third of an inning isnt going to kill his arm. These are must game wins and we cant be fooling around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2k3Champs Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Seanez is dumb. How the hell is he going to throw slider after slider after slider to Lee. Eventually the hitter is going to adjust and make contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Jack likes to test players, putting them in near impossible situations. Seanez has stepped up in some big situations, Koch and others haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Even Seanez, as great as he's been most of the time, has had nights where he's not on his game. Remember the game when Jack brought in Benitez in the middle of an at-bat when Koch was throwing balls & letting the other team back in the game? That's what we should've seen yesterday. Bases loaded, 2 outs, tie game, you put your best weapon on the mound to make sure your team has a chance to still win this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinFan10 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, I guess the marlins could get rid of Seanez, Koche etc. for blowing games and sign relievers who never give up runs. But they're now the yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Of course there are players making 4, 5, 10 times the amount we're paying Koch and Seanez who are giving up even more runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack1 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Because Jack doesn't know how to use pitchers. PERIOD. Plus he likes guys who have "experience". It doesn't matter how lousy they have been in the past. If they have been with 4 plus teams they are A OK in his book! :confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogFish Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 jack1 is always right. knows everything about the game and is a great fan. Funny that Kensing and Bump dont fit the mold. The only think the real Jack knows is that you know little about the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djm305 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I'm strongly against the "save your closer until the 9th inning when you have the lead philosophy." It just doesnt make any sense...especially in late innings. Dont think in terms of closers. Think in terms of this is my best pitcher and he will pitch in the most critical situation (i.e. lead in danger in the 8th, people on base, others struggling) otherwise why even have him? 554299[/snapback] If Jack did that everytime Benitez would be the most over used pitcher on our team and would not be effective. The bullpen cosnsists of role players and Benitez's role is to close a game. Not to come in when other pitchers are struggling and a lead is in Jeopardy. Besides if Benitez comes in and DLee gets that same hit of him then undoubtedly someone would have something to say about that move as well. The fact is Mota & Seanez both failed at their jobs, you can't blame Jack for that. It's part of basbeball you can't expect all our players to be perfect everytime. Mota was due for a bad outing he has been rock solid for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 The 'if he did that and it failed, everyone would be on his case' argument is getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I'm strongly against the "save your closer until the 9th inning when you have the lead philosophy." It just doesnt make any sense...especially in late innings. Dont think in terms of closers. Think in terms of this is my best pitcher and he will pitch in the most critical situation (i.e. lead in danger in the 8th, people on base, others struggling) otherwise why even have him? 554299[/snapback] Agreed Shammy Arguably the best pitcher in the NL this season sitting in the pen watching the most important at bat of the game? Not cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Man Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Why does Jack like Seanez? Maybe cuz he throws stikes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogFish Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yeah you are right. Use Benetiz whenever the situation dictates. If I remember correctly, not too long ago, Benetiz went on the DL with a sore elbow. Use him in the right save situation and let everyone else in the BP pitch to their ability or else we would not have him to use at all. Most of you do not seem to understand that a,. You can not win every game b. You may have a great closer but one who can not pitch every day, in every situation and any time c. a baseball team is made up of 24+ guys. d. this is not little league. Beinstaff and staff get paid to put the best on the field, McKeon and staff to use these personnel to the best of situations and for the players to play the game to be the best they can. Some days it works and others it doesnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 My biggest problem with Jack's bullpen management yesterday was that he was too sure of Mota. While Mota was struggling to find the plate during the 7th and 8th he only had Benitez warming up. When Mota showed it wasn't his day Jack had to rush Perisho and Seanez into the game. I mean it's one thing to have confidence in your guys, but when you have a 11-man bullpen you should have someone available for say when a guy loads the bases twice before recording his second out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 He has a great slider. Thats the main reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Man Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 He has a great slider. Thats the main reason. 555720[/snapback] How the hell would you know thats the main reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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