With the Red Sox removing their 14,000,000 p/year on JD Drew, it becomes necessary for other teams to start bidding for the young slugger that oozes potential.

 

As many of you remember JD Drew killed the Marlins last year. In 13 games he had 20 hits, 4 2B, 4 3B, 5 HR, 17 RBI and a .444 AVG,

 

I think 3 years at 35 will seal the deal. (Consider that this is the last yera we pay 11 Million to Hampton).

If for some reason we had that type of money, I would attempt to go after the likes of Delgado first and then the injury plagued Drew. Drew has been a great ballplayer since his days at FSU, but his frequent stints on the DL would hinder me from committing so much money given that we do not have the deep bank funds like the Yankees. Don't get me wrong, if the price is right go get him, but we have to be judicious with our spending.

Still out there is Maggio Ordonez, J.D. Drew, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Sammy Sosa, Moises Alou, all very good run producers.

 

Mets, Baltimore, and LA are the "big market" teams still needing a big bat. Once a couple of these have been signed, perhaps the price will drop a little for the leftovers....

 

I'm still not sure the Fish have either a) the cash or b) the nerve to sign these guys, as they're either going to command mammoth contracts or are injury-risks.

 

A one-year deal for someone, a la Pudge in 2003 could be a solution. Especially late in the game.

 

I'm really hoping we upgrade the 5th starter spot though.

With Delgado, Magglio or Drew, you're still getting below-average offense from one position (either Conine or Enc). There'd be no funds to afford a solid #5 starter, who very likely could start 35 games with Beckett & Burnett around, or mid-season pickups.

 

If the Marlins go the free agent route, I think it's their best interests to sign quality depth, not superstars.

What do a chunk of these stars that haven't signed have in common?

 

Boras.

A one-year deal for someone, a la Pudge in 2003 could be a solution. Especially late in the game.

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That's another good idea.

 

If that doesn't work out, trade one of the half-dozen Marlins who are free agents in 2005/06 for help.

I wonder what the line is in Vegas on how many months Drew spends on the DL?

"With Delgado, Magglio or Drew, you're still getting below-average offense from one position (either Conine or Enc). "

 

lol good reasoning. Conine in the 7-hole isn't a bad thing.

 

You can't have all-stars at every position (unless you're the yankees)

Magglio >>>>>>> Drew

 

Ordonez pwns.

"With Delgado, Magglio or Drew, you're still getting below-average offense from one position (either Conine or Enc). "

 

lol good reasoning. Conine in the 7-hole isn't a bad thing.

 

You can't have all-stars at every position (unless you're the yankees)

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You can't have Alex, LoDuca, Conine, Enc and pitcher's spot form more than half your lineup and expect to win. At some point you have to upgrade those positions. One Delgado/Magglio/Drew matches the impact that platoons of Gibbons/Enc AND Conine/Martinez would.

wtf are you talking about? if we get a magglio, for instance, you'd plug him into the lineup in Encarnacion's spot and i'd be comfortable with conine in the 7 spot.

 

pierre, castillo, loduca, magglio, cabrera, lowell, conine, gonzalez

 

nothing wrong with that lineup... and i definitely won't complain having conine in there... especially in the 7spot

And what money would be there to fill out the rotation? Add that lefty specialist you want?

 

The increase in offense Magglio/Drew/Delgado would bring over Conine or Enc is minimal compared to the effects of platooning the two positions.

wtf are you talking about? if we get a magglio, for instance, you'd plug him into the lineup in Encarnacion's spot and i'd be comfortable with conine in the 7 spot.

 

pierre, castillo, loduca, magglio, cabrera, lowell, conine, gonzalez

 

nothing wrong with that lineup... and i definitely won't complain having conine in there... especially in the 7spot

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Definitely nothing wrong with that lineup, or some "superstar" in Magglio's spot. I don't know if I'd put Duca 3rd though. Conine and Gonzalez aren't as bad as some are saying.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here rferry...

 

You're telling me that substituting Enc with Ordonez or Delgado would have LESS effect than letting Enc split time with Gibbons and Niner with Tino?

 

You're relegating 4 guys to "platoon" roles, which I don't think anyone particulary loves.

 

Is Tino better than Niner? Is Gibbons better than Enc? How much? As much as Ordonez/Delgado is better than Enc?

And what money would be there to fill out the rotation? Add that lefty specialist you want?

 

The increase in offense Magglio/Drew/Delgado would bring over Conine or Enc is minimal compared to the effects of platooning the two positions.

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OK, get a 5th starter and a lefty specialist and keep that batting order. You won't win.

 

Go get Magglio and get a prospect in the rotation and an invitee lefty for the pen and you might have something going. If you replace Encarnacion with Magglio it's going to have a much bigger impact than getting an above average 5th starter and lefty specialist, and if you can't see that you're obviously as blind as Stevie Wonder.

And what money would be there to fill out the rotation? Add that lefty specialist you want?

 

The increase in offense Magglio/Drew/Delgado would bring over Conine or Enc is minimal compared to the effects of platooning the two positions.

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The rotation or LH specialists have nothing do to with this thread.

 

The only thing i'm saying is that an everyday lineup with magglio in right, cabrera in left and conine at first would be very nice. no platooning necessary... and the only thing i was really trying to say was Conine would be a great 7-spot hitter as our everyday first baseman.

That's a lot of things you're only saying, IMF. Maybe you should add them all up and come to a conclusion on how the Marlins can construct a better team. Not just a better starting lineup.

 

 

You're adding one above-average hitter without addressing the whole lineup. The difference between Conine or Enc and one of Magglio, Drew or Delgado is about 30 hits, 20 of them for extra bases, over the course of a season. There are ways of getting 20 more hits, 10 for extra bases, from EACH position by simply finding platoon mates for Conine and Enc. That's an extra 10 hits a season. Seems small, but it's the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter.

In addition you add two options better than Lenny Harris and Damion Easley when you need a pinch-hitter. Should a player go down to injury, you have established bat in place to fill in. Given the questionable health of the current team because of past injury and/or age, it's best to have quality reserves on hand. It's always best to plan for that regardless of your personnel's health.

 

Did I mention that you could sign Tino, Gibbons, #5 and another reliever (maybe a swingman?) for the same cost? That's a hell of a lot better team than one with Damion Easley as the first bat off the bench, Nate Bump starting and Chad Bentz in relief.

you know what?

 

 

outside of Carlos Beltran, JD Drew is the best outfielder or for that matter free agent on the market.

 

 

JD brings all 5 tools to the table and would fit in very nice in this organization.

 

 

Sign him up for 4 years. Grow balls. Stop being cheap. Back load that son beach and get it done.

tino martinez cannot hit national league pitching.

you know what?

 

 

outside of Carlos Beltran, JD Drew is the best outfielder or for that matter free agent on the market.

 

 

JD brings all 5 tools to the table and would fit in very nice in this organization.

 

 

Sign him up for 4 years. Grow balls. Stop being cheap. Back load that son beach and get it done.

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Amen. JD is also a Nole...

 

:mischief

you know what?

 

 

outside of Carlos Beltran, JD Drew is the best outfielder or for that matter free agent on the market.

 

 

JD brings all 5 tools to the table and would fit in very nice in this organization.

 

 

Sign him up for 4 years. Grow balls. Stop being cheap. Back load that son beach and get it done.

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Amen. JD is also a Nole...

 

:mischief

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If you are going for it why not go for the Big Kahuna in Beltran?

That's a lot of things you're only saying, IMF. Maybe you should add them all up and come to a conclusion on how the Marlins can construct a better team. Not just a better starting lineup.

 

 

You're adding one above-average hitter without addressing the whole lineup. The difference between Conine or Enc and one of Magglio, Drew or Delgado is about 30 hits, 20 of them for extra bases, over the course of a season. There are ways of getting 20 more hits, 10 for extra bases, from EACH position by simply finding platoon mates for Conine and Enc. That's an extra 10 hits a season. Seems small, but it's the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter.

In addition you add two options better than Lenny Harris and Damion Easley when you need a pinch-hitter. Should a player go down to injury, you have established bat in place to fill in. Given the questionable health of the current team because of past injury and/or age, it's best to have quality reserves on hand. It's always best to plan for that regardless of your personnel's health.

 

Did I mention that you could sign Tino, Gibbons, #5 and another reliever (maybe a swingman?) for the same cost? That's a hell of a lot better team than one with Damion Easley as the first bat off the bench, Nate Bump starting and Chad Bentz in relief.

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So you'd rather have two bench/platoon guys in Martinez and Gibbons, an average fifth starter and an average (at best) lefty specialist than Magglio Ordonez? If that's what you're saying, then I won't have any reservations in saying that you should never speak again.

 

If your batting order has two positions being platooned, you're looking at disaster right there. What if both Martinez and Gibbons don't pan out (a pretty likely scenario)? Now you're out $4 Million and you have no offense.

 

Now, sign Magglio Ordonez. Worst case scenario here is he gets injured, misses half the season, we have just as little offense as we would if Martinez and Gibbons bombed, except now we didn't spend too much on an average fifth starter and reliever just to lose.

 

Now, best case if Martinez and Gibbons work out is they produce as much as Magglio would with their counterparts Conine and Encarnacion. Not only that, but the fifth starter wins 10 games and the lefty reliever has a 2.50 ERA. We make the playoffs because we were conservative with our money.

 

Best case scenario if Magglio comes: He hits .320 with 35 homers and 125 RBI as he, Cabrera and Lowell become the NL's top 3-4-5 tandem. We score more runs than anyone else in the league, combined with our spectacular pitching (except from the five hole, where Bump and some other guys flip flop for about 9 wins and our lefty reliever drowns against the big guys like Thome). We make the playoffs.

 

Both best case scenarios end in the playoffs. The only difference is that Tino Martinez and Jay Gibbons are highly unlikely to consistently hit well in platoon roles. Magglio is very likely to stay healthy, and when healthy he is as good as anyone at the plate. The percentages point to Ordonez.

you know what?

 

 

outside of Carlos Beltran, JD Drew is the best outfielder or for that matter free agent on the market.

 

 

JD brings all 5 tools to the table and would fit in very nice in this organization.

 

 

Sign him up for 4 years.? Grow balls.? Stop being cheap.? Back load that son beach and get it done.

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Amen. JD is also a Nole...

 

:mischief

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If you are going for it why not go for the Big Kahuna in Beltran?

No doubt Magglio, Drew and Delgado are all excellent hitters. I would defeinetly want them on my team. But for a low-revenue team like the Marlins... I don't know. I think there's a greater chance at success when you try to get above-average production out of every position. Much like the Giants of last year who in spite of the lack of names and their best hitter being taken out of ballgames with the intentional walk, led the league in runs. You can score runs just as easily with a lineup of 6-7 average or above-average offensive forces than you can with a good top of the order and a blackhole afterwards.

It's not as if Ordonez/Drew/Delgado are THAT much more productive than who you are replacing them with. The difference between them and Conine or Enc is much smaller than you're making it out to be. They aren't replacing .000-0-0 hitters here. Conine and Encarnacion are good for close to 20 homers each, with averages and on base percentages around .270/.340 and .240/.310. Not the best of numbers and certainly worth a look at the alternatives, but much closer to Magglio/Drew/Delgado than you seem to purport. 20 hits, most of them of the extra base variety, and a few more walks is not worth tapping the entire rest of the budget (there's $7M left in the reported $70M) when the team has other concerns. Fifth starter. Swingman/6th starter (for when Beckett or Burnett go down). And maybe another reserve bat.

 

Can you run that worst case scenario by me again, WildCard? If Ordonez/Drew/Delgado gets injured (which there is a equal or greater chance of happening than Gibbons and Martinez flopping), atleast Beinfest can shrug his shoulders and say 'We didn't pay for two pitchers who could have helped, but, ah, what was the point? We had no chance without Ordonez'? Shouldn't Beinfest put the Marlins in a position to win without betting on the health of three players who have missed time in recent years?

Still out there is Maggio Ordonez, J.D. Drew, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran, Sammy Sosa, Moises Alou, all very good run producers.

 

Mets, Baltimore, and LA are the "big market" teams still needing a big bat. Once a couple of these have been signed, perhaps the price will drop a little for the leftovers....

 

I'm still not sure the Fish have either a) the cash or b) the nerve to sign these guys, as they're either going to command mammoth contracts or are injury-risks.

 

A one-year deal for someone, a la Pudge in 2003 could be a solution. Especially late in the game.

 

I'm really hoping we upgrade the 5th starter spot though.

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My candidate to slip through the cracks: Magglio Ordonez. If that is the case, I can see us offering him a one year deal to 'prove himself'.