February 1, 200521 yr RJ: Ryan Garko and Josh Willingham are terrific hitters but their ability to catch is in question.In fact, Quiroz and Brian McCann may actually be the only players under consideration who don't have a serious question about either their bat or their glove. WC: Garko's an interesting case since he's clearly blocked at his position, making his glove concerns moot if they're going to have to move him anyway. Promotions certainly didn't slow him down. It makes me wish Buffalo came through town more than once a season. NS: Garko's five-year WARPs: 2.4, 2.6, 2.7, 2.5, 2.2. His comps include Rich Gedman, Greg Colbrunn and Mike Ivie. He could probably be an above average big leaguer right now, but has relatively little star potential. It's too bad he's stuck behind Victor Martinez. CK: Being compared to three guys whose careers were snakebit (for differing reasons) doesn't exactly bode well for him, my enthusiasm aside. NS: Willingham: 3.6, 3.3, 3.2, 3.1, 3.0. Comps: Andre Thornton, Mickey Tettleton, Gene Tenace. Put him on the list, please. He's not likely to get a lot better, but PECOTA loves him, and thinks he could be an All-Star quality catcher by this year. Jonah Keri: If they give Willingham an everyday job (1B? corner OF?) he'll win Rookie of the Year. CK: Isn't there still some question about whether or not Willingham will ever be an adequate catcher? His offensive performance and projected up-side seems to merit rating him higher as a bat alone. Looks like our kind of prospect. JK: How big an adjustment are we planning to make on catching prospects who almost surely won't catch in the big leagues? We're arguing for Barton and maybe Willingham as our top two at the position; Barton we're hearing strong hints he won't catch, and Willingham at best would see Craig Wilson-type playing time at catcher, and is a potential minus defensively pretty much anywhere he plays. They can both mash, but there needs to be some demerit points for both guys, ideally with some thought behind how much they both fall. NS: I don't know. My math-oriented brain thinks of it like Value = V©*Pr© + V(oth)*(1 - Pr©) Where V© = Value at catcher V(oth) = Value at other position Pr© = Probability of catching in the big leagues Essentially this is just saying that, if we know for certain that a guy isn't going to catch in the big leagues, then we shouldn't give him any credit at all for being a catcher. I'd guess offhand that there's something like a 10% chance that Barton is actually a catcher for any substantial length of time in MLB, so I think we ought to treat him almost like a first-base prospect. He's still deserving of a high ranking as a first-base prospect; obviously it would be higher still if he had Joe Mauer's defensive skills. Willingham I'd think actually has a somewhat better chance of being a regular catcher in the big leagues, just because he's made it this far at the position. RJ: It appears everyone thinks that McCann clearly ranks ahead of the other guys on the list. I'm comfortable with that, and when the final list comes out I wouldn't be surprised if Barton, Quiroz and McCann are the only catchers on it. Willingham has a tremendous bat, but as Joe points out, if he doesn't make it as a catcher, then he's Craig Wilson, always fighting an uphill battle for playing time at any position. In another organization he might rank higher, but with the Marlins I'm tempted to make him an HM. It probably comes down to how many worthy candidates there are at other positions. I think Navarro still deserves an HM, at least. The others may get shafted simply because of how the numbers play out.
February 1, 200521 yr Author Can someone please translate this into English? Thanks. :blink: 674365[/snapback] Willingham is a badass. :thumbup
February 1, 200521 yr He's going to the A's for Barry Zito. /prognostication 674364[/snapback] Me likes. I'd get to watch my favorite pitcher every 5 days.
February 1, 200521 yr Can someone please translate this into English?? Thanks. :blink: 674365[/snapback] Willingham is a badass. :thumbup 674366[/snapback] Nice. I like. Consider me on the JWill bandwagon! :notworthy
February 1, 200521 yr IMO put him in RF and he'll be great... The guy can flat out hit... Id let him and aguila battle it out... Trade Enc. for some BP balls and seeds....
February 1, 200521 yr Can someone please translate this into English? Thanks. :blink: 674365[/snapback] willingham has a bat. has no clue how to use the glove. make him a DH and he is perfect.
February 1, 200521 yr "HM" ????? Am I having brain freeze? 674395[/snapback] Honorable Mention??? Just a guess... :mischief2
February 1, 200521 yr Can someone please translate this into English? Thanks. :blink: 674365[/snapback] He can hit, but he may now be relegated to traid-bait because he's not better than Cabrera, Delgado or Lowell, nor is he as high on the all around aspect of the game as Hermida or LoDuca. If/when we need pitching depth (in the rotation or bullpen) he's likely the bait...
February 1, 200521 yr "HM" ????? Am I having brain freeze? 674395[/snapback] Honorable Mention??? Just a guess... :mischief2 674470[/snapback] bingo. instead of ranking him (e.g. in the top 40), he's tempted to list him as an honorable mention because his future is in limbo as long as he's a marlin.
February 1, 200521 yr This is similar to what ive been saying since the beginning. Hes too ba don defense to be an everydat catcher, so what best for the marlins and for josh, is if we tarde him to another team, preferably an AL team
February 1, 200521 yr Especially now with Delgado & LoDuca locked up for multi-year deals, Willy just has no position left to play. I would love to see him get a chance here, but I don't know how it can happen. If he were 22 I'd say definitely hang onto him.
February 1, 200521 yr he is half a player, doomed to the life of a designated hitter with an ever so occasional defensive start, a la edgar martinez now dont get me wrong, edgar and willy sure are complete hitters, but baseball is 2 sided
February 1, 200521 yr Willingham's defense can't be as bad the scouts say it is. His own minor league manager (formerly a catcher) has said good things about his pitch-calling and progress behind the plate. Give him a shot. If it doesn't work out, move him to another position or send him back to the minors or another team, and bring up DiFelice or Treanor to back-up.
February 2, 200521 yr Author Get this man at least 400AB or move him to a team that will. 674578[/snapback] sad but true
February 2, 200521 yr yeah I think Willingham's days are numbered in this organization sadly. He's going to put up some monster numbers in the big leagues, but it won't be with us. I've thought about the Barry Zito situation myself. If the A's are out of it come trade deadline time, it could be a possibility. Billy Beane would give anything to get Willingham. Can you imagine that rotation? :drool
February 2, 200521 yr Author yeah I think Willingham's days are numbered in this organization sadly. He's going to put up some monster numbers in the big leagues, but it won't be with us. I've thought about the Barry Zito situation myself. If the A's are out of it come trade deadline time, it could be a possibility. Billy Beane would give anything to get Willingham. Can you imagine that rotation? :drool 674732[/snapback] too bad Youks would become available and somehow the Sawks would snag him instead
February 2, 200521 yr yeah I think Willingham's days are numbered in this organization sadly.? He's going to put up some monster numbers in the big leagues, but it won't be with us. I've thought about the Barry Zito situation myself.? If the A's are out of it come trade deadline time, it could be a possibility.? Billy Beane would give anything to get Willingham. Can you imagine that rotation? :drool 674732[/snapback] too bad Youks would become available and somehow the Sawks would snag him instead 674733[/snapback] IMO Willy>Youks, Willy hits for more power, but you're right Billy Beane wouldn't turn down an opportunity to get the Greek God of Walks.
February 2, 200521 yr Willy >>> Youks but the later has gotten and will get more chances than our god of OBP because of organizational luck.
February 2, 200521 yr If you have a guy thats going to be a very good hitter, Id be opposed to trading him just because we dont have a spot for him. I say trade Enc and let Conine and Willingham split time in right. If he has a good year, then see what happens. Who knows what ends up happening with Pierre after this year. Who knows who ends up going down with injury. Who knows how Lo Duca ends up producing. Who knows if Hermida ends up coming up. btw, this is a great luxury to have.
February 2, 200521 yr If you have a guy thats going to be a very good hitter, Id be opposed to trading him just because we dont have a spot for him. I say trade Enc and let Conine and Willingham split time in right. If he has a good year, then see what happens. Who knows what ends up happening with Pierre after this year. Who knows who ends up going down with injury. Who knows how Lo Duca ends up producing. Who knows if Hermida ends up coming up. btw, this is a great luxury to have. 674747[/snapback] He should certainly at LEAST be on the bench, although I see some in the FO to harbor the same Lenny Harris homer tendencies as many on this board.
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