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House panel chief throws Marlins a familiar curve

 

By S.V. Date

 

Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau

 

Friday, April 15, 2005

 

TALLAHASSEE ? The prospects for a new state-subsidized ballpark for the Florida Marlins, buoyed by a favorable vote Wednesday in the Senate, took a more familiar blow Thursday in the House, with a key committee chairman expressing his continued opposition.

 

Rep. Fred Brummer, R-Apopka, said he read an economic analysis paid for by the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce and came away unimpressed.

 

"Weak," said Brummer, describing his assessment of the $3,000 report prepared by economist Robert Cruz. "It was tepid. Except that would be an insult to other tepid economic reports."

 

The six-page analysis said that other reports that over the years have found no net economic benefit from the construction of sports stadiums were not necessarily accurate.

 

It noted the economic "redevelopment" around the Miami Heat's new downtown arena.

 

But Brummer said the report did not offer any evidence that a new, retractable-domed park could somehow generate new taxable spending ? as opposed to a transfer of spending from restaurants and shopping to baseball tickets and concessions.

 

"I was in no way swayed from my previous position," he said.

 

Brummer has said he does not intend to hear the Marlins bill in his Finance and Taxation Committee, and he said Thursday he still does not intend to.

 

Miami-Dade County, the city of Miami and the Marlins contend that a new park would generate $8 million for the state in return for a new, $2 million-a-year subsidy.

 

But critics point out that the estimate does not factor in the $1.5 million a year the Marlins no longer would generate at Dolphins Stadium, nor the $2 million a year that stadium owner Wayne Huizenga would continue to get for the Marlins even if the team left.

 

House sponsor Carlos Lopez-Cantera, R-Miami, said he trusts the Marlins' estimates.

 

"If they have faith in those numbers, then I have faith in those numbers," he said.

 

He said he would continue to try to persuade Brummer to hear the Marlins bill (HB 1287) in his committee.

 

The Senate version of the proposal (SB 1306) could be heard in the Government Efficiency Appropriations Committee next week.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/cont...rlins_0415.html

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"It was tepid. Except that would be an insult to other tepid economic reports."

742746[/snapback]

 

That is soooo cold... it made me laugh.

 

If Brummer doesn't put it on the agenda, it will never work its way to the floor for the vote. At least he is consistent though, he is giving NASCAR, the Magic, etc. the same treatment even though some of those have passed some sub-commitees as well.

 

21 more days left in the regular senate/house sessions. Tick tock, tick tock....

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I hate to do this but.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Men (and Ladies) this is the enemy. I want you to bomb this guy with emails (don't curse the guy out please) and tell him why you want this stadium and give him reasons why he should atleast give this bill a chance to be heard. I just sent him an e-mail, so if I get something back, I'll be sure to pass it along to all of you.

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As a trial lawyer, I have unfortunately been dealing with people like this in the legislature every session. People's long-term political goals obscure rational thought. Let's keep in mind that there is a strong anti-Miami bias pretty much everywhere north of Palm Beach County. Thus, it's probably to Brummer's political benefit to screw Miami as much as he can.

 

Anyway, please e-mail him and be respectful.

Here's my e-mail:

 

To the Honorable Frederick C. Brummer;

 

Please support the Florida Marlins, Miami-Dade County and the City of Miami in pursuing the new baseball park in South Florida.

 

Through merchandising, concessions, parking, restaurants, ticket sales, advertising, hotels, TV coverage, radio coverage, etc., there is plenty of tax dollars to be gained should the Marlins get a new ballpark. The subsidy they're asking for is de minimus compared to the amount of sales revenue that would be generated.

 

Further, when the area around the ballpark begins to re-develop (similar to what has happened around the American Airlines Arena and the new Fine Arts Center), the rising property values and the creation of new businesses will generate even more tax dollars for the state AND for the county (that money would go to schools, etc.).

 

Were the Marlins to leave the state, not only will my 6-year-old be devastated (as would his dad), the financial loss would be huge. No more would the State of Florida be receiving tax dollars from parking, tickets, concessions, merchandising, hotels, advertising, etc.

 

No matter how you slice it, the loss is far more significant than what could be gained. The Marlins owenership has been spending on quality players trying to build a quality team. They have done everything they can to keep the interest high. A new ballpark, and the likelihood of bringing with it an All-Star game in the very near future, is going to benefit everyone. Just think of all the advertising revenue TV stations would lose; think of the radio losses, etc.

 

Please, re-consider, and support the team, the county and the city in their pursuit of an economic winner.

 

Thank you for your time.

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As a trial lawyer, I have unfortunately been dealing with people like this in the legislature every session. People's long-term political goals obscure rational thought. Let's keep in mind that there is a strong anti-Miami bias pretty much everywhere north of Palm Beach County. Thus, it's probably to Brummer's political benefit to screw Miami as much as he can.

 

Anyway, please e-mail him and be respectful.

Here's my e-mail:

 

To the Honorable Frederick C. Brummer;

 

Please support the Florida Marlins, Miami-Dade County and the City of Miami in pursuing the new baseball park in South Florida.

 

Through merchandising, concessions, parking, restaurants, ticket sales, advertising, hotels, TV coverage, radio coverage, etc., there is plenty of tax dollars to be gained should the Marlins get a new ballpark. The subsidy they're asking for is de minimus compared to the amount of sales revenue that would be generated.

 

Further, when the area around the ballpark begins to re-develop (similar to what has happened around the American Airlines Arena and the new Fine Arts Center), the rising property values and the creation of new businesses will generate even more tax dollars for the state AND for the county (that money would go to schools, etc.).

 

Were the Marlins to leave the state, not only will my 6-year-old be devastated (as would his dad), the financial loss would be huge. No more would the State of Florida be receiving tax dollars from parking, tickets, concessions, merchandising, hotels, advertising, etc.

 

No matter how you slice it, the loss is far more significant than what could be gained. The Marlins owenership has been spending on quality players trying to build a quality team. They have done everything they can to keep the interest high. A new ballpark, and the likelihood of bringing with it an All-Star game in the very near future, is going to benefit everyone. Just think of all the advertising revenue TV stations would lose; think of the radio losses, etc.

 

Please, re-consider, and support the team, the county and the city in their pursuit of an economic winner.

 

Thank you for your time.

742791[/snapback]

 

 

thats better than the email i was gonna write.. 'screw you dickhead'

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Guest Moneyball

Here's my letter.

 

I write this letter to you in hopes of you reconsidering your position on the Marlins Stadium issue.

 

My name is Michael Festa, I'm 16 and go to Hialeah High School. I am a crazed baseball fan. The Marlins are the love of my life. Nothing outside family and health come close. Have a suffered and celebrated with this team for more than a decade. Nothing would hurt me more than seeing the Marlins leave because they cannot secure the moneys for a ballpark.

 

I recently read an article in which you said a ballpark would have no taxing benefit.

 

I beg to differ. A ballpark would host 81 games a year plus other miscellaneous events. To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area. This would spur economic development in the area such as bars, restaurants and even homes for pre and post game activities. All this economic activity would help revitalize a bad section of Miami-Dade County. Coors Field, PNC Park , Oriole Park at Camden Yards among others had the same economic effect in their cities. Baseball parks tend to do only good for neighborhoods and cities. In the long run the park would generate money for the state. Other such benefits would bring the MLB All Star Game, NCAA tournaments and other big sporting events. A park would also bring a sense of pride to the city and state.

 

I also believe Marlins ownership has shown that they are different from past ownerships. They have put unprecedented amounts of money into the project. They are dedicated to putting a winning product on the field and aren't the shady characters Henry and Huizenga were.

 

I hope you take the time to consider what the Marlins and Miami want and make a decision that is correct and not based on opinion polls. I trust you will make the right decision in this case and help keep the Marlins in the state of Florida.

 

Thank you for your time.

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To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

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To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

742961[/snapback]

 

The Red Sox on average last year had 100.7% capacity every night.

 

The Marlins won't get that though.

 

And this isn't bringing any new money to the county or anything, its just moving it south.

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To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

742961[/snapback]

 

The Red Sox on average last year had 100.7% capacity every night.

 

The Marlins won't get that though.

 

And this isn't bring any new money to the county or anything, its just moving it south.

742963[/snapback]

 

If I don't spent my money on the Marlins. Can I spent that money buying stuff from the internet from other states or save the money?

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To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

742961[/snapback]

 

The Red Sox on average last year had 100.7% capacity every night.

 

The Marlins won't get that though.

 

And this isn't bring any new money to the county or anything, its just moving it south.

742963[/snapback]

 

If I don't spent my money on the Marlins. Can I spent that money buying stuff from the internet from other states or save the money?

742965[/snapback]

 

I am not 100% sure what you are asking...

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Guest Moneyball

To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

742961[/snapback]

 

 

I'm trying to sell the stadium to him. Ofcourse we won't get 38k a night.

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To those 81 games you would have 38,000 customers a night in that particular area.

742955[/snapback]

:blink:

 

You can't be serious, there's no chance every single home game would be a sellout, not even the RedSox and Yankees can sell out every game.

742961[/snapback]

 

The Red Sox on average last year had 100.7% capacity every night.

 

The Marlins won't get that though.

 

And this isn't bring any new money to the county or anything, its just moving it south.

742963[/snapback]

 

If I don't spent my money on the Marlins. Can I spent that money buying stuff from the internet from other states or save the money?

742965[/snapback]

 

I am not 100% sure what you are asking...

742973[/snapback]

 

 

regarding bringing new taxable money.

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regarding bringing new taxable money.

742981[/snapback]

 

The thought is, people will spend their money no matter what. As long as you spend your money in the state is is taxable. Even online, I am purty sure you have to pay the 6% Florida sales tax. People generally will not save all their money. And if they don't spend the money on the Marlins they will spend it elsewhere, on a couple of nice dinners, movies, on a Dolphins or Heat game, etc.. And all of those things also keep money in the area.

 

If the Marlins move south the thought is people will just stop going out to resturants as much, just cut back on their spending and spend it on the Marlins instead. I can't tell what the truth of the matter is, I haven't seen the economic report, but I can say what this guy says makes sense and I could believe it... I just haven't seen what he has seen.

 

Also, how do all of you know what was in the report? Maybe he is dead on about the report. I like it when people judge something without knowing all the facts :plain. There is serious blind homerism on this board.

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regarding bringing new taxable money.

742981[/snapback]

 

The thought is, people will spend their money no matter what. As long as you spend your money in the state is is taxable. Even online, I am purty sure you have to pay the 6% Florida sales tax. People generally will not save all their money. And if they don't spend the money on the Marlins they will spend it elsewhere, on a couple of nice dinners, movies, on a Dolphins or Heat game, etc.. And all of those things also keep money in the area.

 

If the Marlins move south the thought is people will just stop going out to resturants as much, just cut back on their spending and spend it on the Marlins instead. I can't tell what the truth of the matter is, I haven't seen the economic report, but I can say what this guy says makes sense and I could believe it... I just haven't seen what he has seen.

 

Also, how do all of you know what was in the report? Maybe he is dead on about the report. I like it when people judge something without knowing all the facts :plain. There is serious blind homerism on this board.

742993[/snapback]

 

If I buy something over the internet and that Co is not in Florida (or doesn't have a presence in Florida), I pay 0 taxes. I do it all the time.

 

I don't know what is on the report. I haven't read it. I was just pointing our that there would be less taxable money around if the Marlins left to another state.

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this is what i wrote in my email to brummer...

 

Dear Mr. Brummer,

 

My name is James LaPointe and i currently live in massachusetts, however i was born in miami and i love with all my heart all of the major sports franchises down there especially the Florida Marlins. In the past year, the rest of the country got to see an amazing run to the world series title by the Boston Red Sox and how much that meant to their fans. As a Marlins fan, i have had the blessing of getting to celebrate two world titles and i couldnt be any happier. Baseball is our past time and as an american i cant imagine not having my favorite team to root for. If the new stadium bill doesnt pass in the house i will no longer have my team to root for and that is something im unwilling to except. If i could give my own money to see this stadium built i would but alas i am not that financially secure. If you have ever traveled to massachusetts then im sure you can see how much the game is loved by new englanders. If anyone tried to take the red sox away from them there surely would be complete anarchy here. The sox have a tradition of decades on their side. This tradition needs time to build in Florida and without a new stadium i fear that they will be forced to move or contract the team. As for the argument that a new stadium will not help the community economically that is purely ridiculous. Gillette Stadium, home of the New England Patriots was recently built not far from my house and i have seen many new restaurants and hotels and such put in, plus the generated parking revenues. A new stadium for the marlins in the heart of miami will be their own fenway, where the people will flock to see such an exciting team playing the greatest game on earth. To steal a line from one of the greatest baseball movies ever "If you build it, they will come" and i know that ill be there on opening day if this new stadium gets built. I hope and pray that you give the marlins their fair chance as they have brought me memories that will last a life time and i am only 23 sir. I love baseball and baseball belongs in miami. The team went to bat for us and won us two titles, lets go to bat for them and get them a much deserved stadium where the people of miami can enjoy them for many years to come. I thank you for your time and i hope that this message touches not only your mind, but your heart. good day sir.

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I don't know what is on the report. I haven't read it. I was just pointing our that there would be less taxable money around if the Marlins left to another state.

743001[/snapback]

 

They won't move to another state. They'll get a longer lease at the Fin. Because if Loria doesn't have the extra $30 million to stay in S. Fla, I don't see where his money would be to move the team. And if he has the money and just is being bullheaded about it, then you have to wonder how badly he wants to stay here.

 

And if the Marlins moved to another state people wouldn't stop using their "marlin's money". Instead they would do other stuff with the money. Hit some Heat games, or Dolphin games, most people won't just save all that money. If it was disposable income before the Marlins it will be afterwards.

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And if the Marlins moved to another state people wouldn't stop using their "marlin's money". Instead they would do otehr stuff with the money. Hit some Heat games, or Dolphin games, most people won't just save all that money. If it was disposable income before the Marlins it will be afterwards.

743011[/snapback]

do you spend your money in that fashion? earmarking a certain amount of money as "disposable income" and spending all of it on whatever you want until you use it up?

 

i know i don't.

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And if the Marlins moved to another state people wouldn't stop using their "marlin's money". Instead they would do otehr stuff with the money. Hit some Heat games, or Dolphin games, most people won't just save all that money. If it was disposable income before the Marlins it will be afterwards.

743011[/snapback]

do you spend your money in that fashion? earmarking a certain amount of money as "disposable income" and spending all of it on whatever you want until you use it up?

 

i know i don't.

743014[/snapback]

 

So instead you are impulsive? That is always a good thing I guess. I think most people have some sort of budget for themselves, the entire world is not fiscally irresponsible.

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this is what i wrote in my email to brummer...

 

Dear Mr. Brummer,

 

My name is James LaPointe and i currently live in massachusetts, however i was born in miami and i love with all my heart all of the major sports franchises down there especially the Florida Marlins. In the past year, the rest of the country got to see an amazing run to the world series title by the Boston Red Sox and how much that meant to their fans. As a Marlins fan, i have had the blessing of getting to celebrate two world titles and i couldnt be any happier. Baseball is our past time and as an american i cant imagine not having my favorite team to root for. If the new stadium bill doesnt pass in the house i will no longer have my team to root for and that is something im unwilling to except. If i could give my own money to see this stadium built i would but alas i am not that financially secure. If you have ever traveled to massachusetts then im sure you can see how much the game is loved by new englanders. If anyone tried to take the red sox away from them there surely would be complete anarchy here. The sox have a tradition of decades on their side. This tradition needs time to build in Florida and without a new stadium i fear that they will be forced to move or contract the team. As for the argument that a new stadium will not help the community economically that is purely ridiculous. Gillette Stadium, home of the New England Patriots was recently built not far from my house and i have seen many new restaurants and hotels and such put in, plus the generated parking revenues. A new stadium for the marlins in the heart of miami will be their own fenway, where the people will flock to see such an exciting team playing the greatest game on earth. To steal a line from one of the greatest baseball movies ever "If you build it, they will come" and i know that ill be there on opening day if this new stadium gets built. I hope and pray that you give the marlins their fair chance as they have brought me memories that will last a life time and i am only 23 sir. I love baseball and baseball belongs in miami. The team went to bat for us and won us two titles, lets go to bat for them and get them a much deserved stadium where the people of miami can enjoy them for many years to come. I thank you for your time and i hope that this message touches not only your mind, but your heart. good day sir.

743002[/snapback]

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy .....nice post man

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