July 22, 200521 yr Like Moneyball said, I am usually whining about how people can be mean on the forums and stuff. I really am a softy so I hope nobody really thinks I am being sarcastic when I say that I don't want bad blood with anyone and I really want to be able to talk to you all about things without there being a problem. I certainly will not bare any grudges or show any resentment towards any of you.
July 22, 200521 yr Like Moneyball said, I am usually whining about how people can be mean on the forums and stuff. I really am a softy so I hope nobody really thinks I am being sarcastic when I say that I don't want bad blood with anyone and I really want to be able to talk to you all about things without there being a problem. I certainly will not bare any grudges or show any resentment towards any of you. 869597[/snapback] And by that, I mean I have no resentment towards any of you.
July 22, 200521 yr marlinfan253, you certainly took a lot of heat so good for you for at least taking it. Youre definitley entitled to your views whatever they may be. I personally am not a big fan of the word liberal being brought into an argument to characterize something bad. Thats usually what sets me off.
July 22, 200521 yr I think that "true liberals" don't exist on the left. The far left is so not liberal it's ridiculous.. they are the most intolerant people I know. Far-left wingers--which he seems to be talking about--aren't really concerned about rights and principle... they are really only concerned with tying the hands of the United STates. You never hear them complaining about the stuff that the bad guys do that really is torture or worse. Real left-wingers, like Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, etc., are reflexively anti-American. They think that America represents the largest force for evil to exist on the planet, and when you believe that, all others are, by definition, better. But in anycase, I believe that real liberals aren't "terrorist lovers" but I do believe that the terrorists prefer them over neo-cons. What does that imply? Well, I guess it goes like this: Neo Cons say terrorists should have less rights and liberals say they should have equal rights, i think. Thats from what I gather. Personally, I say f*** the terrorists. People who go around running planes into buildings and getting on buses to kill people deserve no rights. Some crazy ass left wingers'll say, "thats what we do to innocent iraqis!" Well, yes and no. Our intention is not to kill the innocent Iraqis, but out enimies. The only problem i have is that, with all are new technologies and new "smart bombs" how is it we f*** up so bad and "accidently" drop a bomb on the wrong house? Persoannly i think its because we have to somehow get rid of old bombs that aren't to be used in the future and we can't have them lying around. But thats a crazy little theory I have that I don't wish to get into at this present time.
July 22, 200521 yr I think that "true liberals" don't exist on the left. The far left is so not liberal it's ridiculous.. they are the most intolerant people I know. 869659[/snapback] There are "true liberals"on the left, but there are also.......insane people who are so far left they are no longer liberal, and your assessement on some on the far left is pretty accurate. The far lefties that 253 and IceMan speak of aren't the typically liberal views, but these people are out there.
July 22, 200521 yr I think that "true liberals" don't exist on the left. The far left is so not liberal it's ridiculous.. they are the most intolerant people I know. 869659[/snapback] There are "true liberals"on the left, but there are also.......insane people who are so far left they are no longer liberal, and your assessement on some on the far left is pretty accurate. The far lefties that 253 and IceMan speak of aren't the typically liberal views, but these people are out there. 869683[/snapback] Like Felo.
July 22, 200521 yr :deadhorse Thanks to all for derailing this thread. 869700[/snapback] You're welcome. I personally believe that if we continue to use methods that aren't much better than the terrorists use against us, we aren't much better than them morally.
July 22, 200521 yr ya cause the E-1, E-2, E-3 really know a lot of classified information. Hell you could probably say that the E-4 really only has any knowledge of the specialized mission they may be on at any given time. What rank is the MP's these days anyway? 869364[/snapback] Das, no offense man but you really have not the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. It has absolutely nothing to do with rank, there are four security clearance levels in the DoD; classified, secret, top secret, and then SCI. If you're an intelligence officer, an E-2 intelligence specialist will posess the exact same Top Secret clearance as you with the same access as you do. It costs the government in excess of $10,000 and takes at least 3-6 months to conduct an investigation to grant a Top Secret clearance, information is never withheld from the lower enlisted so long as they posess the appropriate security clearance. What rank are MP's? E-1 through E-9, just like every other enlisted job.
July 22, 200521 yr :deadhorse Thanks to all for derailing this thread. 869700[/snapback] You're welcome. I personally believe that if we continue to use methods that aren't much better than the terrorists use against us, we aren't much better than them morally. 869888[/snapback] I completely disagree. We do not fly commercial airliners filled with 300 passengers into buildings filled with 3,000 people, we do not strap bombs to our bodies and walk into elementary schools and blow ourselves up taking countless innocent children with us, we do not go into subway stations and set bombs with timers on them to go off during rush hour when the most amount of civlians will be there, we do not kidnap innocent civilians and decapitate them, we do none of these things. Yet us using torture as a method to extract information from terrorists to prevent atrocities such as 9/11 somehow makes us just as bad as them, that makes a lot of sense. If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it.
July 22, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord!
July 22, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob.
July 22, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked.
July 22, 200521 yr On unrelated news, one of the suspects from the attempted attacks was shot dead in a rundown in the London subway system.
July 22, 200521 yr I heard about that Sandroimbuto. I didn't know if it was true because I was flipping through the channels, but thanks for posting that.
July 22, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] You know I wasn't being serious when I called you a whackjob :mischief . I think the fact that we didn't exterminate 21+ million of our own citizens is enough to prove to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are better interrogation methods? I didn't realize you were an interrogator. If we can extract information from a terrorist that will prevent another 9/11 happening on American soil, then you get that information by any means necessary, and if that means having to use torture, so be it.
July 22, 200521 yr On unrelated news, one of the suspects from the attempted attacks was shot dead in a rundown in the London subway system. 870444[/snapback] Good.
July 22, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] You know I wasn't being serious when I called you a whackjob :mischief . I think the fact that we didn't exterminate 21+ million of our own citizens is enough to prove to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are better interrogation methods? I didn't realize you were an interrogator. If we can extract information from a terrorist that will prevent another 9/11 happening on American soil, then you get that information by any means necessary, and if that means having to use torture, so be it. 870463[/snapback] As far as interrogations go, rewards actually work pretty well though they generate hate among the other POWs. That is usually why in most military POW camps, they try to keep the high intel guys seperated from everyone else. It is easy for the others to spot the rats and then the rats are less inclined to speak. About the weirdest thing I have ever seen is an interrogator holding hands with the man being interrogated. Talk about being friendly.
July 23, 200521 yr On unrelated news, one of the suspects from the attempted attacks was shot dead in a rundown in the London subway system. 870444[/snapback] Good. 870465[/snapback] I read it wasn't confirmed that he was one of the suspects. Good, if true, though.
July 23, 200521 yr On unrelated news, one of the suspects from the attempted attacks was shot dead in a rundown in the London subway system. 870444[/snapback] Good. 870465[/snapback] I read it wasn't confirmed that he was one of the suspects. Good, if true, though. 870580[/snapback] They seem to think that he was indeed involved with the terror cell that launched the two attacks. Some are saying that he was trying to set off a bomb when he was gunned down.
July 23, 200521 yr On unrelated news, one of the suspects from the attempted attacks was shot dead in a rundown in the London subway system. 870444[/snapback] Good. 870465[/snapback] I read it wasn't confirmed that he was one of the suspects. Good, if true, though. 870580[/snapback] They seem to think that he was indeed involved with the terror cell that launched the two attacks. Some are saying that he was trying to set off a bomb when he was gunned down. 870595[/snapback] Yeah, he had to be doing something pretty shady if they resorted to opening fire on him.
July 23, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] Just how do you not know we didnt toture Nazis. We prbabably did. And on top of that people probably turned a blind eye. I know I would have.
July 23, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] Just how do you not know we didnt toture Nazis. We prbabably did. And on top of that people probably turned a blind eye. I know I would have. 870865[/snapback] If you could find me a recorded instance of torturing, then I'll believe ya.
July 23, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] Just how do you not know we didnt toture Nazis. We prbabably did. And on top of that people probably turned a blind eye. I know I would have. 870865[/snapback] If you could find me a recorded instance of torturing, then I'll believe ya. 870965[/snapback] I'm not saying it happend. I'm just saying we don't know. I don't think IF IT DID HAPPEN people would record it. Stuff like that tends to be low key. Especially back then.
July 23, 200521 yr If we resort to terrorist tactics of torture, that doesn't make us any better at all. Great logic Accord! 870404[/snapback] If torture could have prevented 9/11, i'm sure there would still be some whackjob liberal that was against it. I guess we've found our whackjob. 870422[/snapback] Yeah, alright Accord. I am a whackjob. But then again, the Nazi's we could've very easily tortured for information. But we didn't. So we proved to the world that we were better than the Nazi's. There are other, better, ways of interrogation last I checked. 870442[/snapback] Just how do you not know we didnt toture Nazis. We prbabably did. And on top of that people probably turned a blind eye. I know I would have. 870865[/snapback] If you could find me a recorded instance of torturing, then I'll believe ya. 870965[/snapback] I'm not saying it happend. I'm just saying we don't know. I don't think IF IT DID HAPPEN people would record it. Stuff like that tends to be low key. Especially back then. 871052[/snapback] I know that in those days we were still getting POWs addicted to heroine and using it as leverage. I'd consider that to be a method of torture.
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