To get some actual baseball talk going in here and not just news updates or another god forsaken poll, I pose this challenge to you guys:

 

Convince me that Roger Clemens is not the Cy Young Award winner right now.

 

(I will not discount any other opinion just because it does not go with my own, Id just like to get some good old fashioned baseball talk going...)

 

My Argument:

 

Roger Clemens, at age 43, is having the best individual pitching season in the last 5 years, and the NL Cy Young award race is his for the taking right now.

 

The Numbers: (NL Rank)

 

Wins - 11 (6th)

ERA - 1.38 (1st)

SO - 139 (4th)

BAA - .191 (2nd)

OBA - .252 (2nd)

WHIP - 0.96 (2nd)

H/9 - 6.12 (1st)

I agree he is the Cy atm

 

but the voters may not agree.

You won't get an argument from me. He is absolutely the NL Cy Young winner, in my opinion.

It's a race for 2nd place right now

I'm voting for Chris Carpenter.

 

Wins - 16 (1st)

ERA - 2.26 (2nd)

SO - 161 (3rd)

BAA - .211 (3rd)

OBA - .258 (3rd)

WHIP - 0.98 (3rd)

H/9 - 6.78 (3rd)

I'm voting for Chris Carpenter.

 

Wins - 16 (1st)

ERA - 2.26 (2nd)

SO - 161 (3rd)

BAA - .211 (3rd)

OBA - .258 (3rd)

WHIP - 0.98 (3rd)

H/9 - 6.78 (3rd)

That's my vote right now.

 

He's Top 3 in every category and though Clemens' ERA is lower Carpenter has 5 more wins. Now, normally, wins don't qualify as who is a better pitcher or not, and Roger has had weak run support. However, when talking about the Cy Young and talking about two guys that are pretty close to each other in almost every category, you have to give wins a significant amount of weight to give a nod one way or another. If Clemens finishes with less than 15 wins and Carpenter finishes with 20+, can you honestly deny Chris the Cy Young?

sure clemens and carpenter are 1-2 in ERA, but clemens' ERA is nearly a run lower

 

there are certain things you have to give some weight to and look beynd the sheer rankings

Yes, I can.

 

I factor in Clemen's age largely in my opinion...43. At 43 years of age, only Nolan Ryan has sniffed the success Clemens has.

 

His road ERA....0.38 is absurd. 0.38!!! If he pitched in a pitcher friendly ball park, his ERA would be under 1.

 

He beats Carpenter in all but two categories. And Wins is a very bad stat to judge pitching success.

 

I think Clemens gets 16 wins and leads the Astros to the wildcard, giving him some motivation to bear down even harder over the last 50 or so games.

Yeah, don't get me wrong Clemens is having a heck of a year. But I personally can't bring myself to deny someone who was the winning pitcher in probably 22 of his team's victories the Cy Young. I just can't. Especially in a year where I believe he could very well be the only one that gets there (even though I'm rooting hard for Trelle).

I can't argue against Clemens. Heck, I still can't believe this guy retired, came back, and is still arguably the best pitcher in the league.

Clemens:

CG: 0

SO: 0

IP: 156.0

 

Carpenter:

CG: 5

SO: 4

IP: 171.1

 

Still say Clemens gets it but tell me on average how many innings he goes? 6.7 for Clemens to 7.4 for Carpenter. Oh Roger is older, gotta give him a break.

I'm voting for Chris Carpenter.

 

Wins - 16 (1st)

 

 

 

That's exactly what Kruk would say. :mischief2

 

It has to be Roger. This season is other-worldly.

The fact that he has a 2.28 ERA at Minute Maid Park, of all places, is pretty ridiculous in itself...

 

....but a 0.37 ERA on the road?!? Are you freaking serious?!

 

....a .095 BAA with RISP? That's unheard of.. just unbelievable.

 

 

We're not going to see a season like he's having for quite some time, if ever.

 

 

 

...and I hope I'm jinxing it, for the Marlins' sake.

I vote for Carpenter and here's why....

 

For Cy Young, there's 3 major categories that are more important than other pitching stats. Wins, CG's & Shutouts.

 

Carpenter is first in wins, tied for first in CG, and tied for first in shutouts. The reason those 3 stats are more important is because those three mean that pitcher is consitantly going out there, dominating and winning his games.

You won't get an argument from me. He is absolutely the NL Cy Young winner, in my opinion.

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:thumbup

Right now there is no rational reasoning to deny Clemens the Cy Young.

 

And as an aside, could you imagine his overall ERA if he didn't play homegames in Minute Maid?

Maybe if you are referring to the Cy OLD. The Rocket pulled a Michael Jordan and I lost all respect for him.

Maybe if you are referring to the Cy OLD. The Rocket pulled a Michael Jordan and I lost all respect for him.

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What a foolish statement...

I really see no way how you can argue Clemens shouldn't win.

 

It's not his fault he had no bullpen or offense helping him early in the season, give him that Cardinals team to help out like Carpenter has, and Clemens has 20 wins or very close to it already.

 

Cy Young is the for the BEST PITCHER OVERALL in his league, and that is Clemens without a doubt.

 

And Passion, saying this is the best pitching year in 5 years is being very conservative, it's been way longer than that since we've seen something like this IMO...

Well, maybe it will be when it is all said and done...but in my lifetime the season's Pedro had in '99 and '00 are two of the most dominant in history, let alone my life.

 

So, I still contend that this is the best year since '00. In the NL, this is probably the best years since like 94 or beyond...

Well, maybe it will be when it is all said and done...but in my lifetime the season's Pedro had in '99 and '00 are two of the most dominant in history, let alone my life.

 

So, I still contend that this is the best year since '00. In the NL, this is probably the best years since like 94 or beyond...

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Yeah, Pedro in 1999 especially was ridiculous, I guess i'm biased towards Clemens since he's 43 and Pedro in 1999 was like 27 or something I think.

1994 and 1995 Maddux was pretty amazing

 

Amazing what that guy did as a non-overpowering pitcher in the long ball era.

Kevin Brown was pretty sick in 96 as well, though nothing even close to this level

Maybe if you are referring to the Cy OLD.? The Rocket pulled a Michael Jordan and I lost all respect for him.

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What a foolish statement...

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Not at all. Everyone saw him get rocked in his last career start. People took pictures of his last pitch. Next thing you know, he is a Houston Astro. If you are going to convince the world you are retiring, RETIRE.

First off, he didn't get rocked.

 

Second off, the man was honestly going to retire. Andy Petitte begged and pleaded for him to pitch for Houston.

 

Third, who cares that he came back? He plays because he can, and he obviously has plenty left. Why the hate, because he's better at 43 than most are at their primes?