So I have a bad feeling this is gonna open a can of worms...but so be it if that's the case. I'm sick of seeing people say things like "the Palestinians have as much right to the land as the Israelis do."

 

WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?

by Yashiko Sagamori

 

If you are so sure that ?Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history?, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine:

 

* When was it founded and by whom?

* What were its borders?

* What was its capital?

* What were its major cities?

* What constituted the basis of its economy?

* What was its form of government?

* Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

* Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

* What was the language of the country of Palestine?

* What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

* What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

* Have they left any artifacts behind?

* Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

* And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

 

You are lamenting the ?low sinking? of ?once proud? nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that ?nation? proud and what was it so proud of?

 

And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call ?Palestinians? are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over ? or thrown out of ? the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?

 

I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day ?Palestinians? to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won't work here.

 

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it ?Palestinian people? and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the ?West Bank? and Gaza, respectively?

 

The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less claim to nationhood than that Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so called ?Palestinians? have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel, and in my book that is not sufficient to consider them a ?nation? ? or anything else except what they really are: a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled.

 

In fact, there is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side should, pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited on it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and accepting Israel's ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.

 

That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning?

 

You are absolutely correct in your understanding of the ?Palestinians'? murderous motives. I am afraid however that you, along with 99% of the population of this planet have missed the beginning of WWIII (the enemy call it Jihad) quite a few years ago. The siege of the US embassy in Tehran in 1979, an event to which the latest Nobel Peace Prize winner had so miserably failed to respond, can be very well used as the day WWIII stepped out of the pages of the Koran and into the current events. I pray the United States and Israel lead the world to victory in this war. Come to think of it, there is no choice, be you a Christian, a Jew, or even, believe it or not, a Muslim.

 

http://www.middleeastfacts.com/yashiko/Palestinians_eng.html

Great article man. It brings up several great points. And I am now going to answer each question.

 

 

 

* When was it founded and by whom?

 

The original nation of Judea, was founded by Jews at about 1000 BCE.

 

* What were its borders?

 

Its borders were about what comprimises modern Israel today.

 

* What was its capital?

 

Jerusalem

* What were its major cities?

 

Jerusalem was really the only major city at the time along with port cities.

 

* What constituted the basis of its economy?

 

That, I will leave unanswered because I haven't read up much on early economics of the middle east. I assume farming.

 

* What was its form of government?

 

Monarchy with a temple lead by the Cohenim under the Jewish times. After that, anarchy.

 

* Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

 

Nope.

 

* Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

 

Nope, just called that from biblical times.

* What was the language of the country of Palestine?

 

Originally, Aramaic into Hebrew.

 

* What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

 

Originally, Judaism to Christianity to Islam back to Judaism.

 

* What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

 

If I could find a piece of Palestinian currency, I'd love to burn it.

 

* Have they left any artifacts behind?

 

Nada, only the Jews and Romans have.

 

* Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

 

Nope because its never existed.

* And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

 

Self-explanatory.

What gives anyone the right to any amount of land? Might.

What gives anyone the right to any amount of land? Might.

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Historical findings have proven that the Jews were kicked out of the region we call Israel. They were basically the native americans of the region, there. Other than that, there were some canaanite tribes who were let be for the most part. There were always Jews in the Palestine/Judea/Israel/Canaan area. Muslims only came in after taking over from what was left of a weakened Roman Empire.

Good article and even better signature :thumbup .

Good article and even better signature :thumbup .

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I didn't even notice it. Right on! :notworthy

Beinfest,

 

As for Palestinian currency, that would be the shekel, if we want to continue that thread of what the original Palestine was.

Beinfest,

 

As for Palestinian currency, that would be the shekel, if we want to continue that thread of what the original Palestine was.

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:mischief

 

 

 

Have you ever seen some of the original hebrew currency? Very cool stuff.

The nation of Israel, AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, was founded after WW2 am I right? Who lived there in the years, say 1900-1945? Because it sure as hell wasn't the Jews.

The nation of Israel, AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, was founded after WW2 am I right? Who lived there in the years, say 1900-1945? Because it sure as hell wasn't the Jews.

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Actually Jews en masse began living there again around 1910 or so.

 

 

And more to the point, it was the Ottomans from 1900 to 1918 or so and then Jews and Arabs. So there.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

Actually Jews en masse began living there again around 1910 or so.

 

 

And more to the point, it was the Ottomans from 1900 to 1918 or so and then Jews and Arabs. So there.

 

 

The Ottoman empire madue up much of Southern Europe, north African, and all of Turky, a heavily Muslim and Arabic part of the world. So you yourself are saying that Muslims already had a firm base in the region, yet you also say Israelian jews, which only truly started to migrate after World War II, have more claim to the land. That is asinine.

unfortunatly some people have more money than others

Actually Jews en masse began living there again around 1910 or so.

 

 

And more to the point, it was the Ottomans from 1900 to 1918 or so and then Jews and Arabs. So there.

 

 

The Ottoman empire madue up much of Southern Europe, north African, and all of Turky, a heavily Muslim and Arabic part of the world. So you yourself are saying that Muslims already had a firm base in the region, yet you also say Israelian jews, which only truly started to migrate after World War II, have more claim to the land. That is asinine.

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It's Turkey not Turky and Israeli not Israelian. Turkey is inhabited by mostly Turks who speak Turkish not Arabs, they are a minority there. "Southern Europe" which I assume you are referring to the Balkans are inhabited by Armenians, Albanians, Slavs etc. not by many Arabs.

 

Please get a better handle on key terms of this region before you jump in the discussion and call other people's views "asinine".

Palestinians do have thier own distinct culture and aren't this grand evil expieriement designed by Arab countries wound up to destroy the Israel. They aren't made up. That is like saying Pashtuns don't exist because there is no such thing as Pashtunistan even though that would mean ignoring thier huge populations in Afghanistan. Same with the Kurds, do they not deserve autonomy in thier own regions even though a large portion of thier people are settled in northern Iraq?

 

Ethnic groups inhabit plenty of places that they do not necessarily rule over, I think the Palestinians should be owed a part of that region but not all of it. I don't think either the Jews or the Palestinians should lay claim to that entire area, they should share it.

 

I think deconstructing Palestinian culture is pretty pathetic considering every village in that part of the world has thier own accent and customs. Even Israelis aren't monolithic, an Israeli in Tel Aviv is different than an Israeli in Haifa. An Israeli in the disputed areas is MUCH different than the city dwellers and so on.

 

This article is a good argument for the complete demilitarization of that area. I wish a joint U.N. task force would just have complete control over the policing and security of that area and not leave it up to two peoples who continue to make up conspiracy theories to continue to kill each other.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

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I was going to respond with something insightful and powerful, but I can't think of anything.

 

You make a good point, but I still feel there lies a difference between the two scenarios.

 

Either way, Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion, and they need a homeland. Jerusalem is too important as a beacon of our religion.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

903705[/snapback]

Thank you.

Jerusalem is important to Catholics too, should we go in and take it?

 

Im not pro-Palestinian, but on the topic of Jerusalem, it should be a neutral, international UN controlled city.

 

PERIOD.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

903705[/snapback]

:notworthy

 

Beinfest, response? :mischief

Jerusalem should be a city-state similar to the Vatican.

Jerusalem should be run by the UN or blown up. Either way, it'll solve a lot of problems.

OK, I'll bite. (caution: politically incorrect zone)

 

1. If Jerusalem is so important to the Catholic Church, why doesn't the Vatican just move there? Oh, that's right, they're too busy being the continuity of the Roman Empire!

 

2. The UN doesn't give a damn for Jews, so why would I trust them with Jerusalem? So that it's that much easier to kick every Jew out? And last I checked, the last time in the past 1,000 years there has been universal access to religious sites in Jerusalem, Israel was in control. Ditto with Ma'alat haMachpelah in Hebron.

 

3. The problem with the Palestinians is that they're rejectionist irridentists. You can talk all you want about suicide bombers making up only a small minority, but polls have consistently said that a clear majority support them and their ends.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

903705[/snapback]

Thank you.

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I'm not sure the Native American/Palenstinian comparison is valid. Native Americans always lived there, were kicked out and Americans (meaning non-Native Americans) haven't really given them a fair shake of what's due. The Palestinian/Israeli situation is quite different. First you have the Jews way back in biblical times, throw in a few diasporas and a recent return in the past 100 years or so and you have the current situation.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

903705[/snapback]

Thank you.

903847[/snapback]

I'm not sure the Native American/Palenstinian comparison is valid. Native Americans always lived there, were kicked out and Americans (meaning non-Native Americans) haven't really given them a fair shake of what's due. The Palestinian/Israeli situation is quite different. First you have the Jews way back in biblical times, throw in a few diasporas and a recent return in the past 100 years or so and you have the current situation.

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If you wanted my response, Rune, there it is. Of course I said the same exact thing earlier in the thread so I didn't feel like reiterating myself.

Not to break up the lovefest, but, who among you are willing to give up ownership of your land and houses, which were owned by Native Americans, who were here first afterall.

903705[/snapback]

Thank you.

903847[/snapback]

I'm not sure the Native American/Palenstinian comparison is valid. Native Americans always lived there, were kicked out and Americans (meaning non-Native Americans) haven't really given them a fair shake of what's due. The Palestinian/Israeli situation is quite different. First you have the Jews way back in biblical times, throw in a few diasporas and a recent return in the past 100 years or so and you have the current situation.

905193[/snapback]

If you wanted my response, Rune, there it is. Of course I said the same exact thing earlier in the thread so I didn't feel like reiterating myself.

905387[/snapback]

 

No, the example is valid, it is just your emotional attachment to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that clouds your rationality. But, I'm assuming your silence to my question means you would not relinquish ownership of your lands and houses despite the fact that we displaced and murdered millions of natives to the North American continent.