December 10, 200520 yr Here's a thought. Obviously, beyond Cabrera, Jacobs, and Hermida there will be questions about the competence of the Marlins hitters this season. We already have seen D-Train bat up in the order last season. My question is where do you bat him now when he pitches. Do you leave him batting 9th or move him permanently to 5th or 6th when he pitches. Also, when we use the DH, do you use him then too? Truthfully, at this time, he may realistically be the Marlins' 4th to 6th best hitter. Just a thought.
December 10, 200520 yr Depends who else will be in the line-up. But realistically he could hit 6th or 7th. I wouldn't hit him any higher than that.
December 10, 200520 yr I bat him 8 or 9 , our offense wont be the problem ....pitching and defense I have a feeling at times it will be ugly
December 10, 200520 yr If you are joking then you can bat him anywhere, but seriously I don't think a manager should undermine his other players, before ever seeing them perform in a ML game, by placing a pitcher ahead of them in the lineup. Maybe later in the season if some guys are really struggling you can move him up. His first few starts he's batting 9th, no reason to insult the young guys by placing him ahead of them. No?
December 10, 200520 yr Probably no higher than 8th, though that would be after all the starters have been evaluated, of course.
December 10, 200520 yr you can probably say the same for Vargas... bat them 9th, give Hanley some protection
December 10, 200520 yr Put him ahead of Miguel, and he will deliever, LOL, upset the young guys? Hell they can learn from him, he is the modern day Babe Ruth. Willis is the Lefty threat, can we move him to a position in between starts? ;-)
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development.
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development. Losing two out of every three games is not a great confidence builder either. I say bat him sixth... but no more head first slides while on the base pathes. That was nerve wracking.
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development. Losing two out of every three games is not a great confidence builder either. I say bat him sixth... but no more head first slides while on the base pathes. That was nerve wracking. Seemed to work wonders for Mike Lowell, Derek Lee, Alex Gonzalez, Luis Castillo, Josh Beckett, AJ Burnett, Brad Penny, etc... A team of all rookies and two returning players....ya, they'll really bat Dontrelle in front of Hanley Ramirez because that will do wonders for his development.
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development. Losing two out of every three games is not a great confidence builder either. I say bat him sixth... but no more head first slides while on the base pathes. That was nerve wracking. Seemed to work wonders for Mike Lowell, Derek Lee, Alex Gonzalez, Luis Castillo, Josh Beckett, AJ Burnett, Brad Penny, etc... A team of all rookies and two returning players....ya, they'll really bat Dontrelle in front of Hanley Ramirez because that will do wonders for his development. So you think having a pitcher bat up in the order one out of every five nights would be worse for player development than getting your a** handed to you two out of every three nights by real major league baseball teams? I want Dontrelle and the Marlins to have every opportunity to win when he takes the mound and I think that means bumping him up in the order.
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development. Losing two out of every three games is not a great confidence builder either. I say bat him sixth... but no more head first slides while on the base pathes. That was nerve wracking. Seemed to work wonders for Mike Lowell, Derek Lee, Alex Gonzalez, Luis Castillo, Josh Beckett, AJ Burnett, Brad Penny, etc... A team of all rookies and two returning players....ya, they'll really bat Dontrelle in front of Hanley Ramirez because that will do wonders for his development. So you think having a pitcher bat up in the order one out of every five nights would be worse for player development than getting your a** handed to you two out of every three nights by real major league baseball teams? I want Dontrelle and the Marlins to have every opportunity to win when he takes the mound and I think that means bumping him up in the order. Eh, you need to get your priorities straight. You are thinking like a Dontrelle fan, not a Marlin's fan. There is no reason to have him batting higher than 9th other than for entertainment purposes.
December 10, 200520 yr I'm guessing this is a joke. But you have to give the young guys confidence, and if a pitcher is hitting before them, that can't help development. Losing two out of every three games is not a great confidence builder either. I say bat him sixth... but no more head first slides while on the base pathes. That was nerve wracking. Seemed to work wonders for Mike Lowell, Derek Lee, Alex Gonzalez, Luis Castillo, Josh Beckett, AJ Burnett, Brad Penny, etc... A team of all rookies and two returning players....ya, they'll really bat Dontrelle in front of Hanley Ramirez because that will do wonders for his development. So you think having a pitcher bat up in the order one out of every five nights would be worse for player development than getting your a** handed to you two out of every three nights by real major league baseball teams? I want Dontrelle and the Marlins to have every opportunity to win when he takes the mound and I think that means bumping him up in the order. Eh, you need to get your priorities straight. You are thinking like a Dontrelle fan, not a Marlin's fan. There is no reason to have him batting higher than 9th other than for entertainment purposes. So Jack was bumping Dontrelle up in the lineup last season because he is a Dontrelle fan or just for entertainment purposes? I don't think so. He wanted to win.
December 10, 200520 yr Jack McKeon is no longer coaching this team. Do you want me to keep turning down your explanations, or are we done? Putting Dontrelle higher than 9th in a rebuilding year would be pointless. Absolutely pointless. Just be happy he's still on the team.
December 10, 200520 yr Jack McKeon is no longer coaching this team. Do you want me to keep turning down your explanations, or are we done? Putting Dontrelle higher than 9th in a rebuilding year would be pointless. Absolutely pointless. Just be happy he's still on the team. It is pointless if you do not care about wins, sure. I am of the opinion, though, that we should do what it takes to win. If Girardi decides that these rookies are too fragile to handle having a better hitting pitcher ahead of them in the lineup, then I am all for letting him bat 9th the whole season.
December 10, 200520 yr Author Not to take any sides, but based on Girardi making it clear that he wants to win, we might realistically get a chance to see D-Train get 100+ ABs this season and maybe possibly as many as 150 ABs if this offense really struggles. Also, that is, if it doesn't have a negative effect on his pitching. I factored this number by combining a few factors. 1) him have more AB opportunities if he's moved up, 2) possible opportunities in a DH capacity, and 3) pinch hit opportunities when you get pass L. Harris and look at the other options. Personally, I dearly hope that we get some production where this doesn't become a reality because if Girardi has to do this, it would be safe to say that the fish are well below .500 because no team can survive with a pitcher having to do so much. It's already bad enough that Miggy Cabrera may challenge Barry Bonds' single season record for BBs. Just more thoughts.
December 10, 200520 yr Here's what we need to do... 1) When he Pitches, he bats 5th 2) When he doesn't pitch, he bats 5th and plays 1st base he's obviously going to be our 3rd or 4th best hitter on the club...I'm sure he'll have an avg anywhere from .230 - .250 SHOOOT with an avg like that, he may be our 2nd best hitter behind Cab's (if we dont trade him by spring) Oh yeah Im happy!
December 10, 200520 yr If for some reason there's a huge gaping hole in the lineup in July and beyond, then sure you can move Willis and Varga up in the lineup. Other than that, pitchers bat ninth for a reason.
December 10, 200520 yr This offense won't be any worse than last year. Barring injuries, D-Train will bat 9th all season.
December 10, 200520 yr The answer to this is pretty simple, everything considered. Just ask him where he wants to bat!
December 10, 200520 yr This offense won't be any worse than last year. Barring injuries, D-Train will bat 9th all season. I don't know how you can say that. As it is, we will almost certainly have a worse offense than last season. I'll do a short summary of who I think is/was the bigger offensive threat, position by position from 2005 to 2006, with the probable starters in each position. This is subject to change when and if we pick up/trade off more players this offseason. 2005........................................2006 1b..Carlos Delgado.................Mike Jacobs...............................Advantage - Delgado 2b..Luis Castillo......................Uggla/Amezaga/Wilson/Andino....Advantage - Castillo ss..Alex Gonzalez...................Hanley Ramirez..........................Undecided/Unknown 3b..Mike Lowell.......................Miguel Cabrera..........................Advantage - Cabrera (2006) c....Paul Lo Duca....................Josh Willingham..........................Undecided/Unknown lf...Miguel Cabrera..................Chris Aguila...............................Advantage - Cabrera (2005) cf...Juan Pierre.......................Eric Reed...................................Advantage - Pierre rf...Juan Encarnacion..............Jeremy Hermida.........................Advantage - Hermida As far as I'm corcerned, Cabrera is the only player in 2006 you can predict with absolute certainty will be more of an offensive threat at said position. However, we won't have Delgado batting behind him in 2006 and Cabrera will probably end up with around 150 walks or more. I think we can be relatively sure that Hermida's performance in 2006 will outshine Encarnacion's in 2005. Willingham and Ramirez could turn out better or worse than Lo Duca and Gonzalez. We will see next season. So we have only two position players so far who will be bigger offensive threats, two undecided and four (Delgado, Castillo, Pierre and Cabrera in left field) players from the 2005 season that will probably have had a better year at the plate than whoever plays in those positions in 2006. With the moves the front office has made, I don't expect much improvement from this current assessment, though we may pick up a more talented players to play center field and left field. Even still, these players will probably be rookies and fall into the undecided/unknown category. So the offense can and probably will be worse than last season.
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