Just a quick sidenote...after going 3-4 last night 2B Matt Erickson is now hitting .341

He's the kind of person that would like japan.

From rotoworld:The Marlins have reworked Jeff Conine's contract, through 2005, adding a year to his old deal.

This adds to the speculation that Derrek Lee won't be a Marlin in 2004 and that Conine will play first base for the next two seasons, which is about the time Jason Stokes will be ready to take over. Source: Baltimore Sun

With an OPS only 55 points or so higher over 4 weeks he only actually gives us a few extra hits over Hollandsworth/Banks.

I like OPS but I think your overplaying it in this case. The main problem with Hollandsworth was RBI. He has 18 in 216 ABs. That's pitiful. I know RBI is dependant on players being on base but Hollandsworth didn't produce runs when he was in there. Conine does produce runs.

 

It's not that Conine is so great. He's an above average player. It's that Hollandsworth is so bad.

 

Going from Lowell to an average player would cost you about 10 runs in a month. Going from Lowell to a bad player like Hollandsworth is going to cost you more like 15 runs, where dropping to an above-average player like Conine may only cost us about 5 runs. The difference between an above average player like Conine and a terrible player like Hollandsworth may be 5 or 6 games a year, or a game a month. That game could be the difference between the post-season and staying home.

 

We overpaid. It's a big risk. We had to take it. And it puts us in a position to trade Lee for some prospects back and still use Conine to get production at 1B next year (why do you want to non-tender Lee??)

What does "OPS" mean?

Onbase Plus Slugging

Everyone is going to think I'm really crazy but being the insane optomist I am, let me see if I can concoct a plan for keeping this team together.....

 

We get into the playoffs, most players will take less money to stay. Lets work from there.

 

Willis, Cabs, Pierre , and Conine are signed and delivered. They will be wearing teal next year.

 

We know the FO is going to sign Mikey long term. I think this injury will help in the sense that even though hes done he can see the FO cares so much about him staying that they didn't give up and instead they went out and possibly got better.

 

AJ stays. I think he likes this city more than he lets on, and quite frankly I can't see him in another uni anways. Beckett stays, same story I think. And I think he is slowly but surely falling in love (in a heterosexual way, of course) with Jack McKeon. Redman is infatuated with this park, he stays. Pavano likes it here as well, he stays.

 

Penny is resigned then traded to Boston for a player, a good amount of cash, and maybe a 6 pack or something. I'm kind of hoping he gets dealt somewhere else so we can include Alex Gonzalez, because of the four in the infield he is the most expendable (Cabs can play SS :thumbup )

 

Then the FO has to choose between Luiy and Lee. They'll choose Luiy. But it doesnt end here, however, as most people think. We have Conine now able to play first, so we have a backup plan just in case. Lee remembers all the good times in the playoffs, how deep we got, and says he wants to get fitted for another ring. So he keeps going while agreeing to raise his salary just a little bit less than what was expected, and the infield is kept in tact.

 

Juan loves it here, don't kid yourself. We keep the all J OF intact (well, at least when Conine starts ). Spooney isn't going anywhere because at this moment hes all potential and I think where AJ goes, he goes. AJ stays, he stays. Tejera can't go anywhere else, no one else will take him. Phelps is signed past this year anyways, he stays. So is Bump I believe, so for the most part the pen stays in tact. But that means the FO has to choose at the back end.

 

With a healthy Spooney the FO now has to choose. Urbina is more talented and more dominant, while Loop is very confident after having gotten the save that won the Series. Ugy is a fan favorite, so the FO pays Ugy. Loop starts looking elsewhere, but doesn't find anything he likes, so he takes a paycut to stay.

 

That leaves catcher. I'm not going to touch Pudge, all the optomism in the world won't determine where he is going unless we win the World Series, and even then we won't know until he signs.

 

This is the team I see for next year.

 

Then I woke up.

 

But hey, I've seen the future in dreams before.....

O thank you^^^^^^^^^^

OPS is on base % + slugging %

 

its the bet way of quickly evaluating a players offensive talents. not the best way. the quickest.

 

 

 

Gator, I dont want to give him away from free, but Im unclear on the rules here. If we dont offer him arbitration what are our options? We can trade him because we still have his rights?

 

Your account of runs lost between the players is probably accurate I just dont think we have the kind of revenue to pull off a move like this. Its like Admin knows we are going to suck a** next season so hes pushing for little run right now. And to give up Bautista hurts.

Your entire post is made worthless when you say the players will sign for less.

Not to mention you think you know what a person who you've never met likes and doesnt like.

Your entire post is made worthless when you say the players will sign for less.

It's all about the bling bling of the ring.....

 

s*** I rhymed.....remind me to never do that again

Gator, I dont want to give him away from free, but Im unclear on the rules here. If we dont offer him arbitration what are our options? We can trade him because we still have his rights?

I think we have to offer him arbitration to keep his rights but can still trade him at any time. Or we could trade him before the deadline to offer arbitration (December 7).

 

It's like what happened with Atlanta and Millwood last year. The Braves didn't want to pay what they thought Millwood would get in arbitration. So they traded him to Philly. We all thought it was a terrible trade at the time but the Braves got Javy Lopez's replacement and the Phillies got the privilege to overpay Millwood for a year.

Well I guess that would be OK. We arnt going to get near the impact prospect Bautista is if the Braves only got a guy whos too old to be considered a prospect anymore.

It's all about the bling bling of the ring.....

Actually, it's more about security and a level of comfort. I believe Mike Lowell will take less to sign here than elsewhere, especially now when his choice is between a 1 year deal through arbitration and a 4-year deal. You take a little less in the 4-year deal now because there's a risk you could get badly injured while playing under the 1-year arbitration deal.

 

But you won't get the entire team to do that. And we won't commit long term to that many players.

 

And forget Urbina. Looper will cost a third as much and will do just as good a job.

 

I would imagine that Conine's contract would mean bye-bye to Castillo. I don't see how we can afford Lowell, Castillo, and $5 million for Conine (is that the number?).

Castillo has been hunted by the reds and padres. I dont expect him back next year but he might come back if we go to the playoffs. I know loria would want the same team next year if we do make it.

Why would we non-tender Lee and let him go for nothing? We can offer him arbitration and still trade him. Now with Conine we have a fill-in until Stokes is ready. So we should be able to recoup a prospect or two back when we trade Lee.

 

We overpaid for Conine. We overpaid for Urbina. But that's what happens in these situations. We have a chance for the post-season and we have to go for it. We don't know when we'll be this close again.

 

Besides, most can't-miss prospects manage to miss somewhere along the way to the majors.

 

This is also a total vote of no-confidence to Todd Hollandsworth. What a mistake that turned out to be.

This is the most complete post thus far. Did we overpay? Hell yes. But you have to in this situation - we are contending for the WC and our best player just went down the day before the deadline! You dont have a whole lot of leverage, and the Marlins FO had to do something for the reasons pointed out by others - they are building a product here and re-claiming a fan base. The acquisition of Conine happens to be nostalgic as well as practical. The guy can hit, and he hits well at JRS. He could be a huge lift for this team...return of an old gun slinger.

 

The other thing, Bautista is a very nice prospect and Levinski is another good one too. I am not thrilled dealing them for Conine, but that is the price for a chance at the playoffs, it is the least we could do. We got plenty of young arms making their way through the lower levels right now anyway - dont forget about Hutchinson, a guy the FO is really, really high on.

The point has been made again and again today....Will Conine's extra 5 hits or so over the Banks/TH platoon really be worth losing stud prospects?

what the rule on how many guys you can have in the bullpen now that its a 40 man roster, because its a 40 man roster you cant have 40 players eligable for one game right

I was hoping for a move today, but that move i was hoping for was a move that was made with some sanity involved. I'd prefer taking a shot with Banks in LF(who has played well when called upon), than overpay grossly for a 37 year old who has suspect power.

 

Even if we DO make the playoffs, Anything short of a world series victory will make this trade extremely tough to swallow

So, you would have preferred Banks, a 32 year old journeyman who is batting 243 with 23 RBIs and 4 HRs to an established player like Conine, who is batting 290 with 80 RBIs and 15 HRs? Give me a break!!! :banghead Learn to read...I'd rather play Banks and still have Bautista/Levinski in our system than Conine alone.

 

I bet the optimists trying to justify this trade will be the same ones b***hing their guts out 3-5 years from now when they see Bautista/Levinski holding down the O's staff.

what the rule on how many guys you can have in the bullpen now that its a 40 man roster, because its a 40 man roster you cant have 40 players eligable for one game right

You can have 40 guys eligible for every game in September. And you can put them all in the bullpen if you like, assuming there are enough chairs.

 

40 guys on the ML roster doesn't happen though. You have some guys that aren't going to help you in the majors so you leave them in the minors for the minor league playoffs. Or maybe you don't want to bring somebody up and burn an option if they haven't been up before. I imagine it would cost a little money too, having to raise guys salaries to the major league minimum for a month and pay for travel costs (hotels, per diems, etc.)

Did we overpay? Hell yes. But you have to in this situation

 

No, you don't. Or at least, if your GM is competent you don't. Look at the deals around the league made for similar players. Rondell White. Eric Young. Aaron Boone. Raul Mondesi. Jeromy Burnitz. Jose Guillen. None of those teams traded their best pitching prospect to acquire those players (many of whom are better than Conine). The Pads barely gave up more to land Brian Giles! Hey, if Lowell's sudden injury causes teams to grossly overcharge...then don't trade! It's not worth it...at least, not for Jeff Conine.

No, you don't. Or at least, if your GM is competent you don't. Look at the deals around the league made for similar players. Rondell White. Eric Young. Aaron Boone. Raul Mondesi. Jeromy Burnitz. Jose Guillen. None of those teams traded their best pitching prospect to acquire those players (many of whom are better than Conine). The Pads barely gave up more to land Brian Giles! Hey, if Lowell's sudden injury causes teams to grossly overcharge...then don't trade! It's not worth it...at least, not for Jeff Conine.

Yes, but almost all of those deals were pre-deadline, so keep in mind the Marlins were limited in what they had to offer, as many of their players probably hadn't cleared waivers. And not to nitpick, but the Yankees did trade their best pitching prospect for Boone And also, keep in mind many of those deals were made for other reasons, like salary (Burnitz, Boone, and Guillen to a lesser extent), and clubhouse problems or no playing time (White I believe, and Mondesi). So while I agree the Marlins overpaid (Heh, I'm an Orioles fan, so I at least like to believe they did), they needed a player like Conine pretty badly, and were forced into a deal.

 

And keep in mind, while I don't have a list in front of me of who cleared waivers, Conine very well might have been the best player available, who had a justifiable contract, and a team willing to pay some of it.

Both teams get a good deal but THe O's obviously get the better of it...

 

They trade a guy they don't need and is not a part of their future and they continue to build...

 

Works out for both teams but more so The O's.

Both teams get a good deal but THe O's obviously get the better of it...

 

They trade a guy they don't need and is not a part of their future and they continue to build...

 

Works out for both teams but more so The O's.

As long as it works out for Florida, I don't care.

No, you don't. Or at least, if your GM is competent you don't. Look at the deals around the league made for similar players. Rondell White. Eric Young. Aaron Boone. Raul Mondesi. Jeromy Burnitz. Jose Guillen. None of those teams traded their best pitching prospect to acquire those players (many of whom are better than Conine). The Pads barely gave up more to land Brian Giles! Hey, if Lowell's sudden injury causes teams to grossly overcharge...then don't trade! It's not worth it...at least, not for Jeff Conine.

UdderlySexyCows beat me to it (never thought I would say that phrase in my life), his post is a good rebuttal for your post. You are not looking at the whole picture and only looking at the transaction. This is similar to an argument that I had with posters on the MLB board about Clement/AA deal (which we ended up getting Willis in). I said their view on the trade was incomplete, they were not considering the context in which this trade took place. Here, we had to make a deal by midnight - we had very little time and yes, Conine was the best 'available' hitter eligible to be traded. We couldnt really get much else to play LF. ANd if you remember, we were working on deals for both White and Drew not too long ago - but chose not to give up prospects for them either. Why would we all of a sudden pull the trigger on this deal? Desperation, we were going to be had, but considering how bad it could have gotten we didnt do too bad. Just wait til Conine suits up, you will see a huge lift for this ball club.