rune, what exactly do you mean to say with your avatar?

i just saw the replay of the DLee play....

 

im sick....

 

Luis was right there

 

crap

i just saw the replay of the DLee play....

 

im sick....

 

Luis was right there

 

crap

The Phillies got a huge break on that play. Dontrelle pitched a decent game, the gods were in Phillies favor today.

rune, what exactly do you mean to say with your avatar?

What does it matter?

 

Also, although I agree that Ugy would have been the better choice, but Fox got out of a huge jam yesterday, so I don't know why it should be bash Fox and Mckeon day because really I felt the phils were on the way to a win before Fox shut the door giving The Fish, the momentum they needed to get those late inning runs.

 

Just my two cents.

Of course Down you're right. But then you're always right, exclusively right. Pitchers should never give up hits or heaven forbid walk someone. If they do they deserve to burn in h*ll. God's (that's a pretty impressive pedestal you've enshrined Lee on isn't?) like DLee never make errors in judgement, if they don't catch it then it couldn't be caught, it's always someone elses fault.

 

I suppose it's easier to make someone's argument look foolish by putting words in their mouth. I never stated or suggested that pitchers should never give up hits, or that DLee never makes errors in judgment, or that nothing is DLee's fault...all of which you seem to have attributed to me. If you feel like debating a point with me, then debate the comments I make, and not the comments you invent for me.

 

I clearly stated that Lee's botched defense caused two runs to score--two runs that would not have scored if he had made the play. But to focus on one play and say it cost us the game trivializes everything else that happened in the game. Like I said earlier, two runs also would not have scored if Willis does not walk Polanco, or if he doesn't give up a single to Abreu. Now, just because I bring this up does NOT mean I am claiming that the two runs were all Willis's fault, so stop writing as if I'm taking all the blame for Lee and placing it elsewhere. I'm not. On the contrary, it's you who is taking all the blame for everyone else's poor play and placing it all on Lee. You're the one who suggested that it was not Fox or Willis who lost us the game, but Lee. You're the one who stated that Fox was not to blame because the home run he gave up was "almost pre-ordained." It seems that you're the one who is deflecting blame, not me.

 

The fact is, Lee's defensive miscue, Willis' pitching, and Fox's pitching ALL played a part in the loss today (as did Pudge and Luis going a combined 0 for 9), and all carry part of the blame for the loss. But to say: "That's where the game was lost. It wasn't Dontrelle, it wasn't Fox, if it was anyone it was Lee" is, like I said before, absurd. When our starting pitcher gives up 7 hits and 3 walks in 6+ innings, our relief pitcher gives up the winning home run, our #2 hitter goes 0 for 5, and our #3 hitter goes 0 for 4, I have a hard time believing that someone can "lay the blame, if blame should be laid anywhere, on Lee."

Well Said Rodeo.

 

This is not over...im a firm believer that we will go ALL THE WAY.

 

I dont take it for granted, and im not being cocky. I know what we have been through, and that there are "STATISTICALLY" better teams going to the playoffs that us, but the fact of the matter is that we have a team that is full of heart and desire. I really believe that we have the same shot as any other team to go all the way

 

we will not falter, we will not fail....WE WILL PREVAIL!!!

 

and i will end this post with a very VERY true quote from our favorite sportscasters Len and Tommy

 

"Baseball makes no sense!"

let's not forget that penny is not a lock to start in which case helling would take his place in the rotation. that leaves us with only 4 reliable relievers in a tied game.

I'm sorry, I missed the rule that says you can't use the ex-closer with the 1.11 ERA in the seventh as a set up man if you are tied.

I believe McKeon was preparing for a possible extra-inning afair. If Uggie pitched, he would have only been able to pitch 1 inning, because he would have been PHed. I think McKeon was either trying to win it in the 8th or 9th, or just bring it on into extra innings and use Uggie and Loop and possibly Bump/Tejera if needed.

I believe McKeon was preparing for a possible extra-inning afair

Extra Innings?

 

Rain had begun to fall, a game about an hour away was just called and Isabel on it's way and he was preparing for extras?

 

I think he just went to Chad Fox to see if he could do what he did on Thursday get The Fish out of a jam and go on to win it.

isabel was that close? Didn't know that. I'm seriously stuck in the "Furman Bubble".....outside of sports, I really have no idea what is going on. I don't know how it happens, but it does. I was following the 'cane a bit, until I saw that it had passed Florida, and knew my family was safe.

isabel was that close? Didn't know that. I'm seriously stuck in the "Furman Bubble".....outside of sports, I really have no idea what is going on. I don't know how it happens, but it does. I was following the 'cane a bit, until I saw that it had passed Florida, and knew my family was safe.

Yes, I have not gotten the chance to talk to my brother in Philly since yesterday but I heard the rain began to fall not far after the game ended.

 

Took about two hours to get to me.

I figured with the size of the hurricane, that I would get some effects in Greenville, SC....but nary a cloud has been seen.

I believe McKeon was preparing for a possible extra-inning afair. If Uggie pitched, he would have only been able to pitch 1 inning, because he would have been PHed. I think McKeon was either trying to win it in the 8th or 9th, or just bring it on into extra innings and use Uggie and Loop and possibly Bump/Tejera if needed.

 

This strategy is counter-intuitive. You can't plan for an extra-inning affair if you don't make sure you actually get to extra innings.

 

Kind of putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

I know....but, if he was planning on trying to win it in extras, Fox was a good idea to take over. He has done well for us, and ERA-wise, he is about the 3rd best reliever for us (stats arent in front of me). I mean, I really don't see what the big deal was. Yah he sucked last nite. But, we would never have said a word if Fox had done the job (like he's done since he's been here). I mean, Uggy aint perfect either, and he sure isnt perfect against Thome.

 

P.S. Thome coulda hit that HR off ANYONE.

He has done well for us, and ERA-wise, he is about the 3rd best reliever for us

Biggest game of the year to date, why go with the 3rd best? Why isn't one of the other two in there?

 

 

I mean, I really don't see what the big deal was. Yah he sucked last nite. But, we would never have said a word if Fox had done the job (like he's done since he's been here).

 

Agian, I'm not sniping Fox, he's a good arm out of the bully. BUt Urbina is there for a reason, and it's not to sit there and wait for the possibility of extra innings.

 

I mean, Uggy aint perfect either, and he sure isnt perfect against Thome.

No he isn't, but this situation is why they went out and got UU. Imperfect or not, you put the best man available out there to get the job done. And you said it yourslef, Fox is the 3rd best, not the best.

 

P.S. Thome coulda hit that HR off ANYONE

 

Correct. But he didn't hit it off anyone, he hit it off of Fox.

Biggest game of the year to date, why go with the 3rd best? Why isn't one of the other two in there?

 

 

 

 

Agian, I'm not sniping Fox, he's a good arm out of the bully. BUt Urbina is there for a reason, and it's not to sit there and wait for the possibility of extra innings.

 

 

No he isn't, but this situation is why they went out and got UU. Imperfect or not, you put the best man available out there to get the job done. And you said it yourslef, Fox is the 3rd best, not the best.

 

 

 

Correct. But he didn't hit it off anyone, he hit it off of Fox.

dude, you really are reaching for straws here. listen, thome hits a homerun once every 10 at bats or so, not once every 1 or 2. he didn't leave fox in there to pitch to him in a tough situation. it was a bases clear situation where anybody could have been used to pitch to him. the fact that he hit a homerun speaks more about how good he is than about the moves made by our manager.

Thome owns Urbina and i guarantee the fact if Thome goes yard on UUU, you(FF) would say "what was McKeon thinking?, Thome owns UUU"

 

Fox was a good choice..... it was the 1st hr he had given up the lefties, they werent even hitting .200 off him and it only got out of the park because of that stupid wind....

 

good choice

"...I suppose it's easier to make someone's argument look You're the one who stated that Fox was not to blame because the home run he gave up was "almost pre-ordained." It seems that you're the one who is deflecting blame, not me."

 

"...I have a hard time believing that someone can "lay the blame, if blame should be laid anywhere, on Lee." "

 

Down, we can agree to disagree on this one I guess. I don't believe I'm alone in perceiving a bias towards D Lee on your part, the body of your posts here indicate you value D Lee as a more significant member of the Marlins than others here might suggest, and that certainly is your right. If everyone agreed here on everything it would be an incredibly boring place.

 

I carefully couched my words using the word "if" with premeditation because I wasn't the one running down that popup, he and Luis were. As it turned out, that particular play has turn out to be the focus of much of the media's reporting on the game and I don't think you'd dispute that most have held it to be THE pivotal play.

 

I'm not going to sit here and defend a pitcher who just gave up a homerun in the late innings of a close, all-important game. Thome's shot was a magnificent event, even as a Marlins fan I have no reluctance recognizing what a great piece of clutch-hitting it was. I tip my hat to the guy. That's baseball. And it's why the Phillies are paying him the big bucks. But without the two runs that scored on the play in question, as glorious as it was, that run meant nothing.

 

You are correct that theres plenty of blame to go around. I wasn't even laying blame on DL per se, I was commenting in part in response to the flaming posts regarding Willis and Fox, which I thought were unfair.

 

I respect your posts alot. I am not looking for a fight. I believe civil discourse is healthy. Let's agree to disagree on this one and move forward to the playoffs.

dude, you really are reaching for straws here. listen, thome hits a homerun once every 10 at bats or so, not once every 1 or 2. he didn't leave fox in there to pitch to him in a tough situation

Not a tough situation? It seemed tough enough to McKeon in the first game when he decided to walk Thome. Reaching for straws? BBTN, Sportscenter and the print media didn't think it was that much of a stretch to question McKeon's logic.

 

Fox was a good choice..... it was the 1st hr he had given up the lefties, they werent even hitting .200 off him and it only got out of the park because of that stupid wind....

 

good choice

 

Once again, if a good choice is losing, then I can't imagine what a bad choice looks like. I can't beleive I'm being accosted for criticizing a move that cost the Fish a huge game.

if he strikes thome out then mckeon is a genious for going with a guy who lefties can't hit and leaving uggie in the pen because thome owns him. if he brings uggie and it works he's a genious for sticking with his guy even though thome owns him and if he doesn't come through mckeon is a fool for bringing in a guy thome owns. somebody will always critizice something, it was a good choice period.

well said Orisha

P.S. Thome coulda hit that HR off ANYONE.

 

Anyone who leaves a hanging slider the way Fox did. Those first 2 pitches were wicked and Thome himself even said if he would've have thrown another pitch like those first two, he probably would've struck out. He also mentioned that any other day of the year that was just a warning track out. Timing is everything right?

 

This is on ESPN.com from Jayson Stark about yesterdays game. Nice piece about Thome and what he's brought to Philly.

 

Typhoon Thome

If the wind-blown popup that cost the Marlins 2 runs doesn't happen, then Thome's homer means jack. What would've made me happy in this game is for Castillo to have called Lee off & made the play himself, or Lee to have backed off & let Luis catch it. Castillo looks to have had a much better shot at it, though it's hard to judge these things I'm sure when the ball's in the air.

We came to Philly with the lead and we left Philly with the lead.

 

 

Good enough for me.

We came to Philly with the lead and we left Philly with the lead.

 

 

Good enough for me.

I agree 100%.