May 15, 200620 yr I can't believe we are still tracking this deadline. A no to SA doesn't gurantee a deal in South Florida competition. sense of security. chest thumping. etc.
May 15, 200620 yr I think condina is going to ask to become a "minor" owner for giving up the land, watch
May 15, 200620 yr Codina wouldn't be turning his back by refusing to give something up. He can repay them in other ways if necessary. If the deal was "give the Marlins their land and we'll move the UDB for you" then he would be breaking his word if he retracted. Use common sense.
May 15, 200620 yr I think illegal immigrants are going to prepare an army, move into Mexico and make their way to South Florida--where once there, they will disasemble Dolphins Stadium and sell the scrap pieces for drug money and prostitute money. *5 minutes to deletion*
May 15, 200620 yr I think illegal immigrants are going to prepare an army, move into Mexico and make their way to South Florida--where once there, they will disasemble Dolphins Stadium and sell the scrap pieces for drug money and prostitute money. *5 minutes to deletion* How dare they, That is like Holy ground man! btw it isnt dolphins stadium anymore it is now Dolphin stadium get with the times should still be called Joe robbie stadium, greatest sports owner in Florida history
May 15, 200620 yr I can't believe we are still tracking this deadline. A no to SA doesn't gurantee a deal in South Florida competition. sense of security. chest thumping. etc. That our baseball team won't be going to San Antonio, yes.
May 15, 200620 yr Codina wouldn't be turning his back by refusing to give something up. He can repay them in other ways if necessary. If the deal was "give the Marlins their land and we'll move the UDB for you" then he would be breaking his word if he retracted. Use common sense. Absolutly. IF.
May 15, 200620 yr That our baseball team currently quartered in your region won't be going to SA says nothing of their possibility of leaving for another town in the future. The two are completly independent of eachother. The loss of San Antonio's bid does not mean a win for Hialeah. It means the Marlins have declined the offer, and per the Judge's threat, postponed their decision to move to San Antonio indefinetly. Financing and land sales is what constitutes as a win for Hialeah. When promises and progress turn into contracts and action, we'll be breaking ground and celebrating the Marlins finally having a home of their own - one that projects to provide the necessary revenue to support a real major league franchise. There's been no action on the San Antonio front for weeks. The Marlins essentially announced their decision on the matter a week ago. On the 16th, if all the things that have been promised fall into place, it will be a coincidence. More likely, they won't all fall into place on the 16th as there's much work that needs to be done to finalize the UDB, land transfer, creation of the new tax district, site testing, modifications / re-writing of the architectual plans for the location and so on. Or has Jerry del Castillo reported that they've already ordered the ceremonial shovels?
May 15, 200620 yr Sorry for another question about this. Will this announcement be made by the mayor of Hialeah? Will it be on a radio station.. the same one he is always on?. OMG. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead There is no announcement planned at this point, that we know of anyways. This is just the passing of the deadline Wolff put on the Marlins. I guess I read it wrong. I thought there was going to be an announcement tomorrow. The Sunday Sun-Sentinel made some mention of an announcement that was coming today. It turned out to be nothing really.
May 15, 200620 yr So you're saying the Carribean and Venezuela have more money than northern Mexico? Actually many places in northern Mexico do have a significant amount of money (from US tourists and business interests). The point was that a large part of Mexico loves baseball, so the statement that only the Carribean and Venezuela love baseball in the hispanic world was incorrect. But most parts of northern Mexico are certainly worth trying to cultivate as a broadcast market, but not a home market. Especially Monterrey (closest to be able to work as a home market) On a side note, i noticed I forgot the g in "following". Now I feel like a hick. I said no such thing. The total population the Marlins have in So Fla exceeds what SA would have in So Tex / No Mexico. That is the population that has the disposible income to take in games, and to make it worhtwhile for TV and radio to advertise in those areas during games. This is what makes the SA market so undesireable, as opposed to the So Fla market. The Marlins already can market to Miami-Dade/Broward/Palm Beach PLUS Martin, St Lucie, Brevard, Collier, Okeechobee, Highlands, Monroe, Hendry, and possibly Lee and Charlotte Counties which is a total of approx. 7,000,000 (using 2004 Census estimates) people of US incomes just within the southern part of Florida. That is a much larger potential TV and Radio market than SA can claim. I didn't even include Charlotte (157,000) and Lee (571,000) counties in my estimate : those are closer to Tampa Bay actually. That is a total population that SA can't even come close to drawing from for TV & radio. The total wealth and I'd bet on average income of the Florida population exceeds the SA draw by 2x (at least). Remember this also that when the Marlins started in Florida, the native population (such as I being born and raised in Miami-Dade) we only had a bare allegiance to another team. I admit I rooted for the Braves, since they were the closest team, but it was still in another state. It was mostly because I saw the Braves on TBS. With SA you don't have this because for many years now, into their 2nd generation actually many SA residents have been following Houston and Texas -- those allegiances are harder to drop than it was for many Florida residents to adopt the Marlins. Many of the SA baseball fans have been making a 200 mile trip to Houston, or a 300 mile trip to Dallas to see the Rangers for years. The Braves are 700 miles from Miami, so you can see it was harder for Miami folks to see baseball, than it was for SA residents. The ties aren't as strong with the Braves for many So Fla residents as they would be between SA and Houston for instance. These are some of the reasons that make SA a less desirable market than South Florida. Notice I didn't even begin to explore the potential markets in Puerto Rico, Jamaica, the Dominican and eventually Cuba for the Marlins, needless to say Venezuela, Colombia and other South American and Caribbean basin countries.
May 15, 200620 yr I said no such thing. The total population the Marlins have in So Fla exceeds what SA would have in So Tex / No Mexico. That is the population that has the disposible income to take in games, and to make it worhtwhile for TV and radio to advertise in those areas during games. This is what makes the SA market so undesireable, as opposed to the So Fla market. The Marlins already can market to Miami-Dade/Broward/Palm Beach PLUS Martin, St Lucie, Brevard, Collier, Okeechobee, Highlands, Monroe, Hendry, and possibly Lee and Charlotte Counties which is a total of approx. 7,000,000 (using 2004 Census estimates) people of US incomes just within the southern part of Florida. That is a much larger potential TV and Radio market than SA can claim. I didn't even include Charlotte (157,000) and Lee (571,000) counties in my estimate : those are closer to Tampa Bay actually. etc etc... Did I even MENTION SA v Miami? Someone posted basically that Mexico didn't really like baseball. I responded with a comment that northern Mexico loves baseball, as evidenced by some of the figures for the Mexican League teams. You responded with talking about money, and since the conversation I was having was Mexico v Carribean, I responded as such. Go back and re-read my posts regarding this. I didn't even MENTION SA or Miami. Go back and re-read my other posts elsewhere on the board. I've always said Miami is a FAR superior market than SA and the Marlins would have to be crazy to leave if there was any alternative to stay. Also note, I didn't bother reading your post since it had nothing to do with the conversation I thought was going on. Ahh, what the hell... I'll go through it: Average income: Miami itself is a few thousand less than SA (can't find MSA stats, obviously Miami's would increase more than SA's when taking MSA into account). You aren't talking doubling though. You are talking about 1.3x or so most likely. However, costs of living in Miami are about 1.5 times higher from what I saw. On allegiences: More people are rabid fans of the Missions than the Rangers and Astros combined. Baseball fans will root for one of those teams (which one depends solely on whether or not they like the DH), simply because they are the closest. There is very little allegience there. There used to be a rabid Astros fan base way back when, until the Astros up and moved our minor league team. That killed them. There is little loyalty to any ball club in the SA market. Those statements of yours I had a problem with. Otherwise, you're fine.
May 15, 200620 yr fyatuk Posted Today, 04:21 PM Average income: Miami itself is a few thousand less than SA (can't find MSA stats, obviously Miami's would increase more than SA's when taking MSA into account). You aren't talking doubling though. You are talking about 1.3x or so most likely. However, costs of living in Miami are about 1.5 times higher from what I saw. The equivalent income is $58,356.58. It will take a 26.86% increase to maintain your standard of living. Product San Antonio TX Miami-Dade County FL Difference HOME PRICE $228,247.50 $432,190.00 $203,942.50 PAYMENT+ INTEREST $1,022.86 $1,962.98 $940.12 APT RENT $956.00 $1,104.00 $148.00 TOTAL ENERGY $151.59 $170.98 $19.39 LIPITOR $111.25 $121.62 $10.37 PART ELECTRICAL $92.84 $0.00 $92.84 DOCTOR VISIT $82.00 $106.00 $24.00 OPTOMETRIST $77.50 $65.00 $12.50 DENTIST VISIT $70.33 $88.40 $18.07 OTHER ENERGY $58.75 $0.00 $58.75 WOMENS SLACKS $41.99 $24.49 $17.50 BEAUTY SALON $39.80 $45.00 $5.20 VET SERVICES $38.01 $38.30 $0.29 WASHER REPAIR $34.99 $52.75 $17.76 MENS SHIRT $31.33 $24.66 $6.67 BOYS JEAN $19.99 $18.87 $1.12 NEWSPAPER $17.33 $15.30 $2.03 PHONE $17.26 $23.55 $6.29 HAIR CUT $12.15 $9.80 $2.35 DRY CLEANING $8.98 $11.50 $2.52 PIZZA $8.89 $9.99 $1.10 MOVIE $7.83 $9.30 $1.47 BEER $7.47 $7.46 $0.01 T BONE STEAK $7.02 $9.87 $2.85 TIRE BALANCE $6.30 $9.87 $3.57 WINE $5.32 $6.08 $0.76 IBUPROFEN $5.30 $6.12 $0.82 BOWLING $3.77 $4.82 $1.05 CASCADE $3.66 $4.28 $0.62 CRISCO $3.23 $3.99 $0.76 PARMESAN CHEESE $2.95 $3.05 $0.10 COFFEE $2.87 $2.80 $0.07 2-PC CHICKEN $2.71 $2.61 $0.10 GASOLINE $2.69 $2.86 $0.17 HAMBURGER SANDWICH $2.66 $2.36 $0.30 CEREAL $2.61 $3.54 $0.93 ORANGE JUICE $2.55 $2.50 $0.05 GROUND BEEF $2.39 $2.79 $0.40 SAUSAGE $2.37 $2.94 $0.57 POTATOES $2.32 $4.37 $2.05 FROZEN MEAL $2.26 $2.61 $0.35 POTATO CHIPS $2.08 $1.56 $0.52 TENNIS BALLS $2.06 $2.54 $0.48 HALF GAL MILK $1.79 $1.99 $0.20 TOOTHPASTE $1.79 $2.74 $0.95 KLEENEX $1.74 $1.84 $0.10 COKE $1.66 $1.26 $0.40 SUGAR $1.48 $1.67 $0.19 PEACHES $1.44 $1.90 $0.46 LETTUCE $0.99 $1.36 $0.37 SHAMPOO $0.96 $1.19 $0.23 FROZEN CORN $0.80 $1.25 $0.45 FRIED CHICKEN $0.72 $1.14 $0.42 BREAD $0.59 $1.46 $0.87 TUNA $0.57 $0.70 $0.13 MARGARINE $0.53 $0.69 $0.16 SWEET PEAS $0.50 $1.02 $0.52 BANANAS $0.37 $0.49 $0.12 ALL ELECTRICAL $0.00 $170.98 $170.98 Mortgage (%) 5.97% 6.09% -0.13
May 15, 200620 yr JRTexas55 Posted Today, 05:02 PM Sorry about the post above, slip of the fingers will re-post later. The avg SA/Austin inc is $46,000 that equal to $58,000 Miami-Dade.
May 15, 200620 yr it's over NEW: Marlins fail to meet Wolff?s deadline Web Posted: 05/15/2006 03:49 PM CDT Tom Orsborn Express-News Staff Writer Amid cordial final exchanges, the flirting between local officials and Major League Baseball?s Florida Marlins came to an end Monday as a deadline for a relocation agreement that would have moved the team to San Antonio later in the decade expired. Responding to the May 15 deadline imposed last month by County Judge Nelson Wolff, the president of MLB said the team?s goal now is to work out a deal to stay in the Miami area. But Bob DuPuy added in a letter to Wolff that his efforts to bring the team here were not in vain and ?you have positioned your city to be strongly considered for a future Major League Baseball team.? DuPuy also left the door open for the Marlins to re-open talks. ?If the Marlins do not reach a successful conclusion, we would, of course intensify our discussions with you,? DuPuy said. Meanwhile, Wolff and Mayor Phil Hardberger said they would continue efforts to bring a second major-league franchise to San Antonio. http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories...n.45008aac.html
May 15, 200620 yr Actually, some of the most affluent areas of San Antonio include a large number of homes owned by Mexican nationals. Mexico is a country of haves and have nots. Not much middle class at all. But make no mistake about it, the haves are a VERY desirable demo. You should see them during Holy Week here in SA, strolling the malls.....flush with large amounts of cash and shopping bags loaded with expensive merchandise. I have heard this argument before and I'm not sure if it a valid argument to make for MLB in SA (as opposed to, say, playing up the proximity of Austin). Here are a couple of things to consider: 1. International broadcast revenues are divvied up equally among all the MLB teams, so giving an area to a single franchise would set a precedent that might cause divisiveness among the Lords. Think Mariners and Japanese broadcasts for example. 2. Who's to say that a team in SA would have any more of a lock on Northern Mexico than Phoenix, San Diego, Houston, or the LA teams?
May 15, 200620 yr As someone who has been lurking for awhile and just started posting, I have to ask --- does anyone think that SA is doing the Marlins a favor? I mean, conventional wisdom (MLB before the Nationals, NFL with LA) is that having a credible relocation threat helps in getting stadium deals done. The animosity towards SA is understandable, especially if/when you have trolls from SA present. But on the other hand didn't they help to ignite the Hialeah effort? By the way, for those of you who hate outsiders from wannabe MLB cities, thank Festa --- he brought this website to my attention courtesy of his posts over at oregonstadiumcampaign.com. :blink:
May 15, 200620 yr As someone who has been lurking for awhile and just started posting, I have to ask --- does anyone think that SA is doing the Marlins a favor? I mean, conventional wisdom (MLB before the Nationals, NFL with LA) is that having a credible relocation threat helps in getting stadium deals done. The animosity towards SA is understandable, especially if/when you have trolls from SA present. But on the other hand didn't they help to ignite the Hialeah effort? By the way, for those of you who hate outsiders from wannabe MLB cities, thank Festa --- he brought this website to my attention courtesy of his posts over at oregonstadiumcampaign.com. :blink: Welcome Cactus, and yes I do believe that without SA this deal in Hialeah would not be getting done.
May 16, 200620 yr It looks like the spinning has started in earnest: http://www.gadsdentimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...1?ioncat=SPORTS San Antonio Drops Marlins Stadium Offer By TIM REYNOLDS AP Sports Writer Published May 15, 2006 San Antonio's offer to pledge $200 million toward the cost of building a new stadium for the Florida Marlins was dropped Monday, after Major League Baseball decided it could not meet the city's May 15 deadline for a firm deal to move the struggling franchise there. MLB president Bob DuPuy wrote Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff - the point man in the plan to woo the Marlins from Miami to Texas - and, somewhat apologetically, said the deal could not be completed in the timeframe that he deemed necessary. "We are not in a position to affirmatively approve the relocation of the Marlins to San Antonio right now," DuPuy wrote. "We are working closely with the Marlins to secure a stadium in Florida and are hopeful that ... this process will be coming to a successful conclusion promptly." Late last year, baseball officials gave the Marlins permission to seek relocation, after repeated attempts by the team to secure financing for a baseball-only stadium in South Florida ended in vain. The team is currently in talks with the city of Hialeah about building a facility in that Miami suburb. "We have always stated that South Florida is our first priority, but continue to recognize San Antonio as a viable relocation option," Marlins president David Samson said. The Marlins have played in Dolphin Stadium since their inception in 1993. Their lease ends in 2007, but the team could stay there through the 2010 season using a series of one-year options - yet vows it will not play there any later than that. DuPuy said that baseball found San Antonio to be an attractive candidate for a future franchise, a sentiment that Wolff clearly appreciated in his response to baseball's president. "We would happily re-engage in discussions with both the Marlins and MLB, but only when the Marlins and MLB finally determine that they want to move the franchise to San Antonio," Wolff wrote. Earlier this month, the Florida Legislature did not approve a plan to devote some state money toward the Marlins' ballpark plans - the fifth time in six years that lawmakers in Tallahassee did not pass a bill to assist the two-time World Series winners.
May 16, 200620 yr San Antonio pulls stadium offer for Marlins By Sarah Talalay South Florida Sun-Sentinel Posted May 15 2006, 8:27 PM EDT San Antonio pulled its offer of $200 million for a stadium for the Marlins on Monday after Major League Baseball said it could not yet allow the team to relocate. In a letter to Major League Baseball, Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, the San Antonio politician leading the effort to lure the Marlins, said the time frame to approve a November ballot measure and launch a campaign to ask voters to extend hotel and rental car taxes raised for the San Antonio Spurs' arena necessitated a response by Monday. Wolff was responding to a letter from MLB President Bob DuPuy, who said the Marlins and Baseball are focused on completing a stadium financing deal in South Florida. DuPuy, however, commended the city for positioning itself as a potential relocation market and left open the possibility that talks could resume with the Texas city, if a stadium deal is not reached in Florida. "The work you have done will not be in vain, since you will have positioned your city to be strongly considered for a future Major League Baseball team," DuPuy wrote. "If the Marlins do not reach a successful conclusion, we would, of course, intensify our discussions with you." Wolff said San Antonio would welcome the chance to continue talks. "We would happily reengage in discussions with both the Marlins and MLB, but only when the Marlins and MLB finally determine that they want to move the franchise to San Antonio," Wolff wrote. After holding a news conference with San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger and Bexar County District Attorney Susan Reed Monday afternoon, Wolff wished the team luck in its stadium talks. "Hopefully [the Marlins] will get [their] deal done," he said. The Marlins are in discussions with Miami-Dade County and city of Hialeah officials about financing a ballpark on land east of Florida's Turnpike between Northwest 170th and 154th streets. "We are aware of today's communication between Major League Baseball and Bexar County officials," Marlins President David Samson said in a statement. "We've always stated South Florida is our first priority but continue to recognize San Antonio as a viable relocation option."
May 16, 200620 yr San Antonio pulls stadium offer for Marlins By Sarah Talalay South Florida Sun-Sentinel Posted May 15 2006, 8:27 PM EDT San Antonio pulled its offer of $200 million for a stadium for the Marlins on Monday after Major League Baseball said it could not yet allow the team to relocate. In a letter to Major League Baseball, Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, the San Antonio politician leading the effort to lure the Marlins, said the time frame to approve a November ballot measure and launch a campaign to ask voters to extend hotel and rental car taxes raised for the San Antonio Spurs' arena necessitated a response by Monday. Wolff was responding to a letter from MLB President Bob DuPuy, who said the Marlins and Baseball are focused on completing a stadium financing deal in South Florida. DuPuy, however, commended the city for positioning itself as a potential relocation market and left open the possibility that talks could resume with the Texas city, if a stadium deal is not reached in Florida. "The work you have done will not be in vain, since you will have positioned your city to be strongly considered for a future Major League Baseball team," DuPuy wrote. "If the Marlins do not reach a successful conclusion, we would, of course, intensify our discussions with you." Wolff said San Antonio would welcome the chance to continue talks. "We would happily reengage in discussions with both the Marlins and MLB, but only when the Marlins and MLB finally determine that they want to move the franchise to San Antonio," Wolff wrote. After holding a news conference with San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger and Bexar County District Attorney Susan Reed Monday afternoon, Wolff wished the team luck in its stadium talks. "Hopefully [the Marlins] will get [their] deal done," he said. The Marlins are in discussions with Miami-Dade County and city of Hialeah officials about financing a ballpark on land east of Florida's Turnpike between Northwest 170th and 154th streets. "We are aware of today's communication between Major League Baseball and Bexar County officials," Marlins President David Samson said in a statement. "We've always stated South Florida is our first priority but continue to recognize San Antonio as a viable relocation option." Hmmm. not sure if I should be psyched about this or worried.......
May 16, 200620 yr Actually was expecting a complete goodby. Sound like it just put more pressure on SF to complete the deal or else.
May 16, 200620 yr Actually was expecting a complete goodby. Sound like it just put more pressure on SF to complete the deal or else. It's ovah!
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