if i said the answer is eric rudolph...what is my question and what race is he of?

Considering that most Muslims are from Africa and South East Asia, what exactly does a Muslim look like? Have any of you ever met a Muslim in your life? Most Muslims aren't Arab also alot of Arabs aren't Muslim. People from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Chechnya, Indonesia, Sudan, and China (all with substantial Muslim populations especially Indonesia) don't look like Arabs. I seriously doubt a wage slave at an airport is gonna know the difference between an Indian or an Egyptian. Or a Sikh or a Muslim. I'm Cuban and I look like an Arab and so do alot of people from Latin America, especially if you are a white Hispanic, i.e. dark hair and eyes, tan, with body hair. Even Serphadic Jews look like Arabs.

 

I think profiling at AIRPORTS is stupid and a waste of time and won't help in any way. Terrorists aren't going to be reciting the Quran and ride in on a camel. They aren't going to be wearing turbans or hijab or wear traditional dress. They aren't going to be acting crazy either.

 

However, I do support targeting Muslims and Muslim communities by our security apparatus as that was the key to this last plot getting spoiled. You gotta catch them before tehy make it to the airport, you can't entrust clueless airline employees who are looking for Arab caricatures to thwart professional and determined terrorists.

One of the men arrested in the raids was British born, white as can be, birthname was Stephen Whyte I believe they said.

Considering that most Muslims are from Africa and South East Asia, what exactly does a Muslim look like? Have any of you ever met a Muslim in your life? Most Muslims aren't Arab also alot of Arabs aren't Muslim. People from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Chechnya, Indonesia, Sudan, and China (all with substantial Muslim populations especially Indonesia) don't look like Arabs. I seriously doubt a wage slave at an airport is gonna know the difference between an Indian or an Egyptian. Or a Sikh or a Muslim. I'm Cuban and I look like an Arab and so do alot of people from Latin America, especially if you are a white Hispanic, i.e. dark hair and eyes, tan, with body hair. Even Serphadic Jews look like Arabs.

 

I think profiling at AIRPORTS is stupid and a waste of time and won't help in any way. Terrorists aren't going to be reciting the Quran and ride in on a camel. They aren't going to be wearing turbans or hijab or wear traditional dress. They aren't going to be acting crazy either.

 

However, I do support targeting Muslims and Muslim communities by our security apparatus as that was the key to this last plot getting spoiled. You gotta catch them before tehy make it to the airport, you can't entrust clueless airline employees who are looking for Arab caricatures to thwart professional and determined terrorists.

 

amen...although i dont think there are professional terrorists...seems like the amatuer terrorists dont really get the chance to apply for their tour card...but yeah man...nail on the head...and for all the jokes and racist comments about towel heads...id be willing to bet that there hasnt been a terrorist wearing their turbin while they were pulling a job

One of the men arrested in the raids was British born, white as can be, birthname was Stephen Whyte I believe they said.

 

I heard that along with the pregnan woman, 3 were muslims but islamic converts. Can verify the number 3, mighta been 2

Ok, Ill concede. I just need the racial profile advocates to answer me this:

 

So we stop only people with Muslim names. In fact we stop the terrorists that were going to do this event right? And we pull them aside and we search them for special weapons? Ok, sounds good. And they have a bottle of gatorade and they have an MP3 player. So they will be stopped and detained for much much much further for chemical analysis right?

 

No-----I had a bottle of gatorade and an Ipod video and I flew from Reagan National to Chicago just 2 days before this incident and I was searched. And I fit the racial profile.

 

So I need an explanation as to how racial profiling, even if we do it, would have stopped these specific terrorists that were going to smuggle gatorade bottles with chemicals detonated with MP3 players.

 

But what did stop these monsters? A dirty brown Muslim that turned them in. OMG Muslims are statistically likley to be sellouts too? And what happens when we take the Accord policy of being bigots? Nobody cooperates. Intelligence fails.

 

I specifically await a response from some of you on this question.

 

My ipod video had episodes of The Office, Monk, South Park, and Always Sunny in Philly on it so Im not making this specific situation up either.

 

 

F_M where in god's name did you get 6.5 billion muslims!?!

 

Error on my part. I was too excited before my buddy's wedding this morning and looked at the wrong stat in this page:http://www.factbook.net/muslim_pop.php. Its still in the billions. But regardless, the point is absolutely relevant. I can find 1000 Jews that did something terrible tomorrow. I can find 1000 Jews that have raped a child. That doesnt mean Jews are more likely to be rapists. Doesnt matter if there are 1 billion Jews or 6 billion Jews.

let's stop beating around the bush and have one line in airport security for Muslims and one line for non-Muslims.

 

Better yet let's use seperate planes.

 

and as MarlinNation put it, are we talking about Arabs or Muslims? Will there be a list of countries? How about religions? Can I ride on a separate plane from the Jehovah's Witnesses at least?

 

I'd like an aisle seat ma'am, yes. First-class, please. Non-smoking. Also non-brown section if possible, thank you.

These aren't extreme views that some of us have. The article aforementioned does a good job explaining why, in some cases, it is ok to profile. When security is at risk, and there is a historical precedent for stereotyping terrorists, then why not use that?

 

F_M used the old 'percentages' in his argument. Well how about this percentage (which is much more pertinent and accurate):

 

 

 

3 US terrorists

7000 Muslim terrorists

 

Percentage of terrorists that are American: 3/7003=.04%

 

Percentage of terrorists that are Muslim: 7000/7003= 99.95%

 

Using F_M's numbers, it's a bit overwhelming...

 

That only indicates that a terrorist is likely to be a Muslim. Not that a Muslim is likely to be a terrorist. What is profiling? It's the use of a statistical probability that something is more likely true so that it helps your cause. You have to be able to reach into a pool of people and be able to grab the person youre looking for. The statistical probability that you need to help your cause here is that Muslims are more likely to be terrorists than others. That if you reach into a bag of Muslims, youre likely to grab a terrorist. And unless youre like accord, you should know that that isnt true.

 

Look at it this way: The vast majority of child molsters are white correct? So do you keep your children away from white men or refuse to leave them in the hands of a friend who is a white male? Maybe if 30% of white males are child molesters, you wouldnt risk a 1/3 chance. But maybe at worst 1% of white males are child molesters, so youre fine with it. So reversing the relevant stat doesnt make it an effective filter.

 

Dont indict the other 99.9999% of Muslims because of the actions of such a few percentage. Dont associate all of them because their names sound alike. Just in the same way, don't associate all white males because they share the same category as a small group.

 

And for those of you who think youre an amatuer detective, how many times have you been suspicious of an innocent person and been wrong? Many many times. Passion, youre half black right? Lets say you sit down next to a person and they start moving their things and then leave the room because they are afraid you are going to steal their stuff. Youd be fine with this? You wouldnt take offense? What if they did it everytime?

F_M, you talk about the 'vast majority'.

 

IN terms of terrorism, we are talking about NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE.

 

 

This is a dumb argument, beacuse politics will never allow for profiling at airports (although we know it still happens). So let's just leave it at that.

F_M, you talk about the 'vast majority'.

 

IN terms of terrorism, we are talking about NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE.

 

 

This is a dumb argument, beacuse politics will never allow for profiling at airports (although we know it still happens). So let's just leave it at that.

 

Its not a dumb argument because we did this to people. This isnt about politics.

 

Id still like to know how racial profiling would have stoped these guys. Im waiting for an answer to that question. Marlin nations point about how we would determine race is also vastly relevant.

 

As far as Muslims being every terrorists, you only say it because they are of foreign decent. If they were 100% white, nobody would ever start making the argument that we should racially profile. Nobody made that argument in OKC when not one Muslim commited a terrorist act or ever has in that city.

 

People will do it now for consistency in argument and posterity. But it would never become an issue. We start changing our tune when we deal with unfamiliar foreigners. Someone of hispanic decent should be able to appreciate this. One illegal immigrant does something bad, it gets on the news, and all of a sudden there is a crisis in crime from illegals.

There is no way to tell if racial profiling would force Muslims to find people of different ethnicity to do their work...but if you are trying to deny the obvious (that all of the major terrorist attacks of the past 10+ years have been Muslims in their jihad), then you're fooling yourself. I'm not going to argue about profiling because like I said nothing will ever be done to that extent. But stop trying to argue that a terrorist isn't 99.9% likely to be Muslim.

There is no way to tell if racial profiling would force Muslims to find people of different ethnicity to do their work...but if you are trying to deny the obvious (that all of the major terrorist attacks of the past 10+ years have been Muslims in their jihad), then you're fooling yourself. I'm not going to argue about profiling because like I said nothing will ever be done to that extent. But stop trying to argue that a terrorist isn't 99.9% likely to be Muslim.

 

Im not trying to argue that. I blatantly said that that stat indicates that terrorists are more likely to be Muslims. Im arguing that Muslims arent even close to be likley to be terrorists. The result of this basic reversal of logic is huge. You see it on many logic tests. Its a specific logic fallacy that people misuse. Youll see it in concurrent circiles too.

 

And they have gotten different ethnicities to do their work. It's an absolute fact.

Racial profiling means using your resources efficiently. You can argue that it's wrong from a civil liberties / rights & equality standpoint, but there's absolutely no statistical argument against it.

 

If you're going to incorporate some sort of search or screening procedure, you might as well use some brains and apply statistics to it to make your efforts more meaningful.

Passion, youre half black right? Lets say you sit down next to a person and they start moving their things and then leave the room because they are afraid you are going to steal their stuff. Youd be fine with this? You wouldnt take offense? What if they did it everytime?

I'd find it ignorant and maybe annoyed at first but if people are stubborn and racist, it's there problem and it's not going to effect me. I've dealt with it for a long time now and I'm pretty much past being effected by it a long time ago. Alot of people still think for blacks and whites to marry is unclean, vile, unnatural, etc and my fiancee being multi-racial herself (white and asian) I'd be lying if I said I won't have some concern about our children dealing with this crap even more then we have. Although, if I felt the bill of someone who had been robbing people there I wouldn't be offended and I'd understand and I'd probably do the same thing myself.

 

That said, I don't know what all that has to do with racial profiling to ensure the safety of airports and airlines. I think you are too quick to just automatically say that some sort of racial profiling is 'racist' in nature. No muslim or suspicious person is getting detained, jailed, beaten, abused, etc for being their race/religion/profile they would just be subjected to a little advanced screening. If you have a target base then obviously you need to be slightly more careful with that group. Randomly search some that fall in to that category and/or flag the ones that are suspicious (travel patterns, ticket purchase, etc). It shouldn't just be based on race.

 

I doubt any of you would opposse your local police force for setting up a road block if a local fugitive/criminal was on the loose. If the suspect was a black male, I hope they stop every single car going through that road block that is a black male. I'd feel the same way if it was a white male, woman, muslim male or woman, etc. That is profiling that is done all the time and I'm glad it is done.

 

All of us here do profiling it's most basic form all the time. If you are walking a city street at night and see a group of men in their 20s who look suspicious I'm almost certain that you don't go walking right up to the person or near them. That's profiling. Alot of you probably don't give money to homeless people on the basis that you think they are going to use it for liquor or drugs. That's profiling. You can point the fingers at the government, law enforcements, the administration whatever but we all are guilty at it and in certain situations it's needed for safety.

There is no way to tell if racial profiling would force Muslims to find people of different ethnicity to do their work...but if you are trying to deny the obvious (that all of the major terrorist attacks of the past 10+ years have been Muslims in their jihad), then you're fooling yourself. I'm not going to argue about profiling because like I said nothing will ever be done to that extent. But stop trying to argue that a terrorist isn't 99.9% likely to be Muslim.

 

Im not trying to argue that. I blatantly said that that stat indicates that terrorists are more likely to be Muslims. Im arguing that Muslims arent even close to be likley to be terrorists. The result of this basic reversal of logic is huge. You see it on many logic tests. Its a specific logic fallacy that people misuse. Youll see it in concurrent circiles too. That point really isn't relevant in a discussion of screening, and I don't think many are having trouble understanding it. You're missing the basic application of statistics here--nobody you screen is "even close to be likely to be terrorists"--but if the purpose of your screen is to catch terrorists, you'd be wasting your time if your screening method didn't scrutinize more closely the small demographic that constitutes 99% of the group you're trying to catch.

So how does racial profiling stop these specific terrorists who had gatorade bottles and MP3 players?

 

Also, how would you guys implement it in light of the points both marlin nation and hotcorner made earlier?

 

And Shaq man, we've had this argument. You never showed me how the miniscule gain in benefit, depending on how you even want to do the racial profiling, outweighs the burden placed on a lot of people. Not a small demographic either.

 

Passion, two points. First, you find it ignorant and racist. But why is it a different line of thought? Before 9-11, the debate about racial profiling centered around blacks and hispanics and their higher rate of crime commision and incarceration. Someone absolutely avoiding blacks and hispanics to make sure he isnt the victim of a crime is an effective policy, but immensely ineffecient. Same with having a seperate line for people that we could consider bad.

 

The roadblock example is different in scope. Youre talking about a small group of people in a specific and small situation. If the govt knew that a muslim person on a specific date was going through Boston Logan, then that is being smart. But the more and more general you get, the more ineffecient you get and the more you ask good ordinary Americans to just deal with something because of the color of their skin.

One of the men arrested in the raids was British born, white as can be, birthname was Stephen Whyte I believe they said.

 

Yes, he is so white, almost like Casper .

 

 

 

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=655215

One of the men arrested in the raids was British born, white as can be, birthname was Stephen Whyte I believe they said.

 

Yes, he is so white, almost like Casper .

 

 

 

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=655215

 

Looks pretty anglo to me, my point was that he looks just like any of the other thousands of people who walk through airports each day and you don't think twice about.

 

Brilliant job taking something out of context :thumbup

One of the men arrested in the raids was British born, white as can be, birthname was Stephen Whyte I believe they said.

 

Yes, he is so white, almost like Casper .

 

 

 

http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=655215

 

Looks pretty anglo to me, my point was that he looks just like any of the other thousands of people who walk through airports each day and you don't think twice about.

 

Brilliant job taking something out of context :thumbup

its accord...everything is out of context with him...and can i get my answer or should i still wait...eric rudolph? who is he? what did he do? what race and color is he?

Eric Rudolph is extremely pertinent to a discussion on racial profiling at airports.

Eric Rudolph is extremely pertinent to a discussion on racial profiling at airports.

 

it seems the course of this discussion has gone back and forth between racial profiling in general and racial profiling at airports...after all...there was talk about child molestors too...but thanks for singling me out again...oh yeah...and since you still didnt answer me? WHO IS HE? :whistle

How the hell did I single you out? By posting in this thread? Only certain posters can respond to you? Get over yourself.

How the hell did I single you out? By posting in this thread? Only certain posters can respond to you? Get over yourself.

 

because you have a smart answer for everything i say...and i encourage anyone and everyone to offer their opinions in response to mine...and how do i get over myself if im sitting down...oh yeah...and who is eric rudolph? what about Theodore Kaczynski...that name might be a little easier for you?

Are we also going to profile really tanned people?

 

I find them suspicious. :lol

still waiting for a response? what? conservatives on the board unite in silence because they realize that profiling will solve nothing?