Posted January 4, 200718 yr http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...sp&c_id=fla Around the Horn: Catchers 01/03/2007 10:00 AM ET By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com The following is the first in a series of weekly stories on MLB.com examining each Major League club, position by position. Each Wednesday until Spring Training camps open, we'll preview a different position. Today: Catchers. MIAMI -- When the Marlins overhauled their roster in 2006, the organization didn't know what to expect from a number of positions. Catcher was one of the unsettled spots. While Miguel Olivo had signed as a free agent, the 28-year-old Dominican Republic native was being pushed by Josh Willingham, and Matt Treanor was in the mix as a backup. Florida's catching situation is far more settled as Spring Training 2007 approaches. Olivo is firmly established as the starter, with Treanor once again slotted as the reserve. Willingham, meanwhile, is out of the mix as he once again is projected to start in left field. The rugged Olivo is a physical presence behind the plate. The compactly built 6-foot, 220-pounder has one of the strongest arms in the game. In his first full season in the National League, Olivo threw out 38.5 percent (30 of 78) of the runners trying to steal off him. Only St. Louis' Yadier Molina's 43.9 mark (29 of 66) was higher among National League regulars. Offensively, Olivo lacked patience but still provided some power at the bottom of the order. Olivo set personal highs for at-bats (430), runs (52), hits (113), doubles (22), home runs (16) and RBIs (58). He finished with a .263 batting average. In June, Olivo was especially hot, batting .408 (20-for-49) in the month. His strong June marked the second time a Marlin hit better than .400 in a month. Preston Wilson previously did it, batting .431 in July 1999. As the season wore on, however, and with more regular playing time, Olivo's offensive numbers began to slip. He followed up a .234 August by batting .203 (16-for-79) in September. Despite slumping late, Olivo insists he didn't physically wear down. "At the end of the year, I didn't feel tired," Olivo said. "If I said at the end of the year I was feeling tired, I would be lying." Still, the daily rigors of catching in steamy South Florida have been known to sap the statistics on Marlins catchers in the past. Keeping catchers fresh and productive is a challenge for manager Fredi Gonzalez. Florida Marlins ? Catchers: Olivo, Treanor team up ? Corner IF: January 10 ? Middle IF: January 17 ? Outfielders: January 24 ? Starters: January 31 ? Bullpen: February 7 ? DH/Bench: February 14 In the offseason, Olivo has worked on hitting offspeed and breaking pitches. "I think, for me, that's the main thing I need to work on right now -- recognizing the breaking ball," Olivo said. "That and being more patient at the plate. I think I can work more on being more selective on the breaking ball." Notoriously aggressive, 11 of Olivo's homers came when he attacked the first pitch. "Sometimes it is good to be aggressive, and that's been good for me," he said. "But if I am more patient, my average should be higher. I have to be more patient. I'm happy with what I did. I had career highs for average, home runs, RBIs and throwing percentage." Olivo also showed the ability to handle a young staff. Four of the Marlins' starters were rookies in 2006. Josh Johnson, Scott Olsen, Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez also became the first rookie foursome in Major League history to win 10 or more games. "We had four rookies who won 10 games and I had the opportunity to catch them," Olivo said. "That made me feel comfortable and confident." His crowning moment behind the plate came on Sept. 6, when Sanchez tossed the fourth no-hitter in franchise history, and the first in the Major Leagues since Randy Johnson's perfect game in May 2004. "That is something I will always remember," said Olivo, who had the plate presented to him during an on-field ceremony at the end of the 2006 season. Olivo's 16 home runs also matched the third-highest total by a Marlins catcher. In 1997, Charles Johnson belted 19, and Johnson added 18 home runs in 2001. In 2003, Ivan Rodriguez connected on 16 home runs in his lone season with the Marlins. Backing up Olivo again will be Treanor. In a reserve role, Treanor played in 67 games. Respected for his defense and ability to handle pitchers, the 30-year-old batted .229 with two home runs and 14 RBIs in 157 at-bats. Among the categories Treanor established career highs were games, at-bats, runs (12), hits (36) and doubles (six). On June 20 at Baltimore, Treanor connected on his first big-league homer. The shot to left came on his 267th at-bat. Defensively is where Treanor made his mark, as he threw out 13 of 31 (41.9 percent) of runners trying to steal off him. And in 403 total chances, he committed just three errors. In many ways, the play of the catching tandem of Olivo and Treanor will be a factor in how the young pitching staff continues to develop in 2007.
January 4, 200718 yr Olivo turned out to be a very nice player for us last year, and I will admit that I was very skeptical...I give him props and hope he has another excelent year next year....Treanor preformed well also.
January 4, 200718 yr Among the categories Treanor established career highs were games, at-bats, runs (12), hits (36) and doubles (six). That make anyone else laugh? Regardless, upgrading Treanor would be really easy. I bet Sandy Alomar Jr. takes a 500k camp invite and he can still play a bit. I think Todd Greene is still available. Always Javy Lopez who could start 30-40 games if he's willing to accept he's a backup and not retire. I'd like to see Treanor have camp competition at least with some known quantity.
January 4, 200718 yr Among the categories Treanor established career highs were games, at-bats, runs (12), hits (36) and doubles (six). That make anyone else laugh? Regardless, upgrading Treanor would be really easy. I bet Sandy Alomar Jr. takes a 500k camp invite and he can still play a bit. I think Todd Greene is still available. Always Javy Lopez who could start 30-40 games if he's willing to accept he's a backup and not retire. I'd like to see Treanor have camp competition at least with some known quantity. You must have missed out on last month's big signing... of Paul Hoover. :lol I love the glove and attitude that he brings, but with our bench looking like it will be taking a step back next season it would be nice to have a backup catcher that can hit. Or like you say, someone who will at least give him some real camp competition.
January 4, 200718 yr IMO Treanor shouldn't be on our ML roster...... We someone better than him as a back-up.....
January 4, 200718 yr Hard to imagine anyone can really be unhappy with the production we got from the catcher position last year...especially relative to the salary paid. Doesn't mean we can't want an upgrade if the option presents itself ala a Dontrelle trade but we're better off at catcher than alot of other teams.
January 4, 200718 yr Hard to imagine anyone can really be unhappy with the production we got from the catcher position last year...especially relative to the salary paid. Doesn't mean we can't want an upgrade if the option presents itself ala a Dontrelle trade but we're better off at catcher than alot of other teams. No need to trade Dontrelle to get a backup catcher who can hit ? and that is all MarlinsLou and I have been talking about getting. Shamrock is probably right about Treanor not going anywhere... I just think the backup catcher situation is going to be addressed sooner or later and if we can find a more permanent solution this offseason, great.
January 4, 200718 yr Here are a few catcher's the Marlins want to look into as replacements for Treanor: 1) Jeremy Brown - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Jeremy-Brown.shtml - 27-year-old Oakland catcher with decent power. One of four catchers currently on the Athletics active roster, along with Jason Kendall, Mike Piazza and Adam Melhuse. 2) Chris Coste - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Chris-Coste.shtml - 33-year-old who made his big league debut with the Phillies in 2006 and put up some very nice numbers, hitting .328/.376/.505 in 198 AB. The Phillies rewarded him by picking up Rod Barajas during the offseason and naming Coste their 3rd catcher/supersub behind Carlos Ruiz and Barajas. Not a long term solution and I don't expect the same production next year, but he could be a very nice cheap fit for the next 2 seasons. 3) Kelly Shoppach - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/K...-Shoppach.shtml - 26-year-old backup catcher for the Indians with some nice power. He didn't have the best year last season, hitting .245/.297/.382 in 110 AB, but his minor league numbers have been consistently strong. He is blocked by VMart and would probably be the most costly of all of the catcher's listed. But he would be a definite long term solution.
January 4, 200718 yr Hard to imagine anyone can really be unhappy with the production we got from the catcher position last year...especially relative to the salary paid. Doesn't mean we can't want an upgrade if the option presents itself ala a Dontrelle trade but we're better off at catcher than alot of other teams. No need to trade Dontrelle to get a backup catcher who can hit ? and that is all MarlinsLou and I have been talking about getting. Shamrock is probably right about Treanor not going anywhere... I just think the backup catcher situation is going to be addressed sooner or later and if we can find a more permanent solution this offseason, great. I don't think it will be addressed in '07. Treanor will be the backup. That's regrettable but that's reality.
January 4, 200718 yr Here are a few catcher's the Marlins want to look into as replacements for Treanor: 1) Jeremy Brown - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Jeremy-Brown.shtml - 27-year-old Oakland catcher with decent power. One of four catchers currently on the Athletics active roster, along with Jason Kendall, Mike Piazza and Adam Melhuse. 2) Chris Coste - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Chris-Coste.shtml - 33-year-old who made his big league debut with the Phillies in 2006 and put up some very nice numbers, hitting .328/.376/.505 in 198 AB. The Phillies rewarded him by picking up Rod Barajas during the offseason and naming Coste their 3rd catcher/supersub behind Carlos Ruiz and Barajas. Not a long term solution and I don't expect the same production next year, but he could be a very nice cheap fit for the next 2 seasons. 3) Kelly Shoppach - http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/K...-Shoppach.shtml - 26-year-old backup catcher for the Indians with some nice power. He didn't have the best year last season, hitting .245/.297/.382 in 110 AB, but his minor league numbers have been consistently strong. He is blocked by VMart and would probably be the most costly of all of the catcher's listed. But he would be a definite long term solution. Those would all be amazing, although I find philly not dealing and Shoppach is really vital to Cleveland because VMart is going to play some 1B. Brown would probably be most likely to be moved because you didn't even mention Suzuki whose Oakland's catcher of the future. You know Beane would take some sort of non top prospect single A arm he likes. Brown can absolutely not play defense by all accounts, but yea. He walks and hits random dingers. Probably a substantial upgrade over 200 plate appearances.
January 4, 200718 yr If healthy, I expect Brett Hayes to be given a chance to win that job in ST That would be one hell of a jump. Has he even played at Jupiter yet, let alone Carolina?
January 4, 200718 yr I don't see the problem with Treanor. He handles pitches very well, and that's the main thing you expect from a backup. Anything he gives us at the plate is gravy. Look around the league. Backup catchers are not exactly lighting the world on fire. There are much more important things that should be on our plate besides a backup catcher.
January 4, 200718 yr I wish I understood where this idea that a backup catcher's role is defined by his offensive abilities. I understand the argument - the desire to get more production out of one's bench - and on a team like the Marlins, every roster spot needs to contribute, but in all honesty, Treanor does the job his team asks of him. After a year, and in some cases two years, of catching our young staff, Treanor's value lies between his ears. His database of situational baseball, combined with his defensive skills, make him an ideal backup catcher. Sure I would like to see him hit like Johnny Bench but if he did he'd be making $12 million a year somewhere else (take that figuratively please). If Treanor had only four (4) more hits last season (40 vs 36), because of his limited ABs he'd be a .255 hitter and I doubt anyone would be complaining. Even at .229 he still had an OBP of .328. This is not the stuff that makes for a starting major league catcher to be sure, but as a number two guy with a good knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of his staff, he provides good value. PBC's list above is interesting but when you start looking not only at their raw numbers (most of which are sporatic at best over the last few seasons even in the minors or in their very limited MLB play, and to his credit he admits it) but their splits (from minorleaguesplits.com and from mlb.com) and defense, it only make Treanor more palatable. And that's the word I would focus on. Palatable. I would say, short of some phenom pushing him aside, and possibly Olivo as well, he's a real asset to the team who should be there for the 2007 season. Battery continuity has value even if it doesn't show up on a stat sheet.
January 5, 200718 yr I wish I understood where this idea that a backup catcher's role is defined by his offensive abilities. I understand the argument - the desire to get more production out of one's bench - and on a team like the Marlins, every roster spot needs to contribute, but in all honesty, Treanor does the job his team asks of him. After a year, and in some cases two years, of catching our young staff, Treanor's value lies between his ears. His database of situational baseball, combined with his defensive skills, make him an ideal backup catcher. Sure I would like to see him hit like Johnny Bench but if he did he'd be making $12 million a year somewhere else (take that figuratively please). If Treanor had only four (4) more hits last season (40 vs 36), because of his limited ABs he'd be a .255 hitter and I doubt anyone would be complaining. Even at .229 he still had an OBP of .328. This is not the stuff that makes for a starting major league catcher to be sure, but as a number two guy with a good knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of his staff, he provides good value. PBC's list above is interesting but when you start looking not only at their raw numbers (most of which are sporatic at best over the last few seasons even in the minors or in their very limited MLB play, and to his credit he admits it) but their splits (from minorleaguesplits.com and from mlb.com) and defense, it only make Treanor more palatable. And that's the word I would focus on. Palatable. I would say, short of some phenom pushing him aside, and possibly Olivo as well, he's a real asset to the team who should be there for the 2007 season. Battery continuity has value even if it doesn't show up on a stat sheet. And his slugging was below his OBP. He's basically worthless. He's an organizational type that should be in AAA as a 3rd or 4th catcher and only up if one of the two main guys gets hurt. We all realize our cheapness in getting a certified backup catcher, but I don't know if it's a lot to ask for to bring in one of these stronger AAA/AAAA guys stuck in another organization (like Brown) or an old vet FA (Alomar Jr., Greene) to at least compete with Treanor. Maybe his defense and familiarity of pitchers would win out, but I'd like more camp competition then Paul Hoover and Brett Hayes. Like you said, we need to get the most out of every bench spot and if we can get some catcher that can work with the pitchers, can throw out at least 20% of runners, and hits something like minimum .250/.325/.400 in 200 plate appearances, it's a pretty substantial upgrade.
January 5, 200718 yr If healthy, I expect Brett Hayes to be given a chance to win that job in ST That would be one hell of a jump. Has he even played at Jupiter yet, let alone Carolina? nope.... but supposedly he was going to be given a chance last ST before his injury...
January 5, 200718 yr I wish I understood where this idea that a backup catcher's role is defined by his offensive abilities. Well, luckily for you, you don't have to worry about it that much because it's not a commonly held opinion.
January 5, 200718 yr And his slugging was below his OBP. He's basically worthless. He's an organizational type that should be in AAA as a 3rd or 4th catcher and only up if one of the two main guys gets hurt. We all realize our cheapness in getting a certified backup catcher, but I don't know if it's a lot to ask for to bring in one of these stronger AAA/AAAA guys stuck in another organization (like Brown) or an old vet FA (Alomar Jr., Greene) to at least compete with Treanor. Maybe his defense and familiarity of pitchers would win out, but I'd like more camp competition then Paul Hoover and Brett Hayes. Like you said, we need to get the most out of every bench spot and if we can get some catcher that can work with the pitchers, can throw out at least 20% of runners, and hits something like minimum .250/.325/.400 in 200 plate appearances, it's a pretty substantial upgrade. How can you call him "basically worthless"? For the record only one ML CATCHER had a better CS% with as many games started as Matt Treanor, that being Ivan Rodriguez. One. Not NL...not AL...MLB. You want him to "throw out at least 20%"? Well he threw out 47.1% of runners. Jorge Posada didn't do that, Joe Mauer didn't do it, Kelly Shoppach was more than 100 points lower, Todd Greene 130+ points lower, Sandy Alomar Jr, an embarrassing .185 or almost 300 POINTS LOWER (he of the nine knee operations, so crippled he can hardly crouch behind the plate). It would be unfair to remark on Brown because he only played in one ML game last season. Coste, .194. Just as an example, Paul Loduca, .243. And this with virtually an all-rookie staff didn't have the faintest idea how to hold a runner until about August. By now I've come to understand you just can't be wrong, I understand that. We all have our shortcomings (mine would take days to recite) but at least give the guy the credit he's due. The point is when you get down to role players, as we're discussing here backup catchers, you can't expect players to have all the tools of a starter. Todd Greene has chronic shoulder problems. Javy Lopez, a once damn good catcher, finished as anything but a DH (or desperation). Our best bet is either trade at the end of the season for a really strong prospect or hope someone emerges from the system but he's as good as most if not all in some categories and while he's never going hit for average he worked 19 walks and got on base at a reasonable %. We'll have to agree to disagree but I think using OPS for a guy with little or no power is wrong. Ethically wrong. It's okay when you want to compare Pujols and Cabrera, Jacobs vs Willingham, etc., but when the guy is basically a singles hitter, is a backup at a position where defense is everything and still finds a way to get on base almost one out of every three at bats, I personally think it's the wrong stat to use. Here is a link to all catchers sorted by cs% http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fieldi...amp;qualified=0 When you add up all the positive stuff Treanor does, handling young pitchers, calling good games, playing virtually error free ball, second in all of baseball in CS%, getting on base almost one of every three at bats, I don't think anyone can reasonably come to the conclusion he's " basically worthless".
January 5, 200718 yr Treanor is not on the roster because he's a good or even average backup C. There are plenty of guys out there who put up the numbers he does (with his average+ D).
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