Per Joe Sanchez:

- To properly renovate the OB, it would take 200 million

- Dolphin Stadium offering a lot more to UM (parking revenue, concessions %, etc.). He thinks UM will move.

- OB should be the target site.

- 9 acres site (would be more expensive than OB, due to size limitation)

- 2012 will be the target to open (if everything goes as planned)

- A City Commission representation will go to tallahasee to push the stadium

 

that's all

Best case scenario:

 

1st-- Canes move to Dolphin Stadium

2nd--Orange Bowl is demolished (or we let it collapse by itself)

3rd--New Marlins Stadium is built at OB site. With the OB gone there will be plenty of parking if they acquire the land that was originally planned

4th--Metro-rail line is expanded to serve the OB site or free shuttles from the station to the stadium can be provided

5th--Tri-rail is connected to the Metro-rail system to service the Broward and PBC fans. (this is already planned at the airport area)

 

However, every change in plans bring delays and new problems to solve. Any new problem is a possible deal breaker. I am very concerned about any changes in the plans for this reason.

i'm totaly with you.

the orage bowl as it is is a building of the past. 6 or 7 home games doesn't generate enough revenue to warrent renovations for the orange bowl.

81 regular season games will warrent why the marlins will make more and better use of that location over the canes.

dolphins stadium is a better faclity for football for the canes anyway. i say do it!!!! :hat

Why would UM move? What's in it for them? This is just sheer speculation, but I would imagine that the ultimate goal for UM would be to build a canes-only football stadium, whereby the university can generate significant cash from football games, etc. I understand UM has no money for this, and it would be years before anything like this ever happens, but I think moving to DS means that it will 100% never happen. DS is too nice a venue, and the canes will be stuck there for 30 years. UM needs the OB to be completely falling apart to build sympathy for renovations, and to raise alumni funds to build a canes-only stadium. If UM has any say, they'll play in the OB until the stadium literally comes crumbling down. JMHO.

OK, this has gone on for far too long. What exactly was wrong with the Orange Bowl location that was being explored two years ago? It's the same exact thing, just now instead of $420 million it's up to $490 million. They still have the same plans to build the stadium NEXT to the exisiting OB. What do the Hurricanes have to do with anything?? If the OB is not torn down, what will it be used for?

 

Anyone with a better understanding please enlighten. Thanks!

I didn't want to start a new thread, and if you guys think it needs one, I can always move it....

 

From what I heard yesterday, Samson and Loria haven't been to a stadium meeting in quite some time. In fact, MLB barred them from all meetings.

 

just some interesting, if nothing else, info

I didn't want to start a new thread, and if you guys think it needs one, I can always move it....

 

From what I heard yesterday, Samson and Loria haven't been to a stadium meeting in quite some time. In fact, MLB barred them from all meetings.

 

just some interesting, if nothing else, info

 

that's very interesting inside information. I think everyone was speculating to this, but this provides confirmation

Sales tax rebates are given to the owner of the facility where the team plays.

 

At Dolphin Stadium, the Miami Dolphins for the Florida Marlins.

At a new ballpark, Miami-Dade County for the Florida Marlins.

Sales tax rebates are given to the owner of the facility where the team plays.

 

At Dolphin Stadium, the Miami Dolphins for the Florida Marlins.

At a new ballpark, Miami-Dade County for the Florida Marlins.

 

to the owner or to the franchise?

Sales tax rebates are given to the owner of the facility where the team plays.

 

At Dolphin Stadium, the Miami Dolphins for the Florida Marlins.

At a new ballpark, Miami-Dade County for the Florida Marlins.

 

to the owner or to the franchise?

To the owner of the building the team plays in. Not the owner of the team or the franchise itself.

I would much prefer a site in Downtwn Miami. If that site cant be had I think Hialeah off of I75 and the Turnpike would be best site #2. For me personally (I live in Kendall) the OB and downtown would be perfect considering distance. Hialeah makes much more sense, for ALL Marlins fans, than Hialeah would. Regardless I hope something gets done.

With this latest snafu I'm back to what I've thought for the last few years, and that is that it's going to be Huizenga who enters the picture that finally closes the deal on a stadium. He's got the money....he's got the land(right next to the current stadium where Joe Robbie in his infinite wisdom thought was the best long-term location for a stadium in the area). MLB giveth, and MLB taketh away. And in this case it would mean Loria getting bought out for a nice profit, and Huizenga becoming owner again.

Why do the county/city commissions always have to ruin a great stadium plan? The downtown site is the best site they've ever had. The Orange Bowl site is trash. It's a gross area, there's little potential for development, poor access to mass transit, it's not walkable from downtown offices, and it's a horrible distance from Broward and Palm Beach (the development/transit/walking benefits of being downtown offset the distance from Broward and Palm Beach in my opinion). Frankly the OB site reeks. I'd prefer Pompano Beach. I think the only site worse than the OB is Hialeah, where nobody who wants to get home safely would ever go.

Why do the county/city commissions always have to ruin a great stadium plan? The downtown site is the best site they've ever had. The Orange Bowl site is trash. It's a gross area, there's little potential for development, poor access to mass transit, it's not walkable from downtown offices, and it's a horrible distance from Broward and Palm Beach (the development/transit/walking benefits of being downtown offset the distance from Broward and Palm Beach in my opinion). Frankly the OB site reeks. I'd prefer Pompano Beach. I think the only site worse than the OB is Hialeah, where nobody who wants to get home safely would ever go.

The answer is money, as in not enough payoff money for the corrupt politicos. The rest of your post, every sentence, is to put it kindly not worth responding to. Even the one sentence I responded to is incorrect. It was(is) hardly a great stadium plan. It's a stadium plan. Nothing great about it.

I didn't want to start a new thread, and if you guys think it needs one, I can always move it....

 

From what I heard yesterday, Samson and Loria haven't been to a stadium meeting in quite some time. In fact, MLB barred them from all meetings.

 

just some interesting, if nothing else, info

Awesome I had said that about 5 or 6 months ago that Loria and Samson asses weren't allowed in the stadium negotiation...Any of those smart asses that ridiculed that comment remember at all? :shifty

 

Why do the county/city commissions always have to ruin a great stadium plan? The downtown site is the best site they've ever had. The Orange Bowl site is trash. It's a gross area, there's little potential for development, poor access to mass transit, it's not walkable from downtown offices, and it's a horrible distance from Broward and Palm Beach (the development/transit/walking benefits of being downtown offset the distance from Broward and Palm Beach in my opinion). Frankly the OB site reeks. I'd prefer Pompano Beach. I think the only site worse than the OB is Hialeah, where nobody who wants to get home safely would ever go.

Free you really don't have a notion where the proposed Hialeah site is located, do you?

I want a stadium , and a stadium at the OB site is better than no stadium , BUT i prefer the downtown location

Why do the county/city commissions always have to ruin a great stadium plan? The downtown site is the best site they've ever had. The Orange Bowl site is trash. It's a gross area, there's little potential for development, poor access to mass transit, it's not walkable from downtown offices, and it's a horrible distance from Broward and Palm Beach (the development/transit/walking benefits of being downtown offset the distance from Broward and Palm Beach in my opinion). Frankly the OB site reeks. I'd prefer Pompano Beach. I think the only site worse than the OB is Hialeah, where nobody who wants to get home safely would ever go.

Free you really don't have a notion where the proposed Hialeah site is located, do you?

 

I'm still in the minority and pulling for Hialeah so Free's statement kinda baffled me too. Entrance/exit ramps directly into/out of the new pond in Hialeah compared to the "safety" of being in downtown Miami or the OB area at night?

Please explain. And do not include "but you don't understand the traffic flow" in this explanation.

The Miami-Dade County Commission meeting from 3/06/07 was re-broadcast this afternoon.

 

The downtown site is totally OFF the table! The clear majority of the commissioners were against the site just north of the Government Center. There was strong support for the OB site again, even from those who opposed the downtown site. The media reports about that meeting that I read last week were not as clear about the degree of opposition to the downtown site. After watching the meeting there is no question in my mind that the stadium will not be built downtown.

but their big problem if their try to mess with OB if i not mistaking OB is under a rule that cannot be taking down because it historical site. i e-mail Bureau of Historic Preservation to if their under that rule

if OB is .their will need look at hialeah site.

but their big problem if their try to mess with OB if i not mistaking OB is under a rule that cannot be taking down because it historical site. i e-mail Bureau of Historic Preservation to if their under that rule

if OB is .their will need look at hialeah site.

Reportedly, there are two options at the OB site. They can demolish it if the Canes choose to play at Dolphin Stadium, or they can build the Marlins stadium next to the OB.

It seems as if we are not even close to having a deal on the new stadium. A ton of questions remain. Read this article in the herald (3/12/07)

 

 

 

 

New Marlins stadium in a squeeze play

The Florida Marlins must clear some huge hurdles for the team to get the stadium it interminably lobbies for.

BY CHARLES RABIN

crabin@MiamiHerald.com

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The Florida Marlins' latest hope for a new ballpark focuses on two publicly owned properties: one, the old football stadium in Little Havana; the other, a nine-acre plot in downtown Miami that could prove costly.

 

County Manager George Burgess recently proposed spending $490 million to build a 37,000-seat ballpark with 60 suites and a retractable roof on what now is mostly a parking lot just north of Government Center.

 

The plan was quickly shot down by a majority of county commissioners. They were worried a Children's Courthouse and a Miami police training academy that are planned for the site could be delayed and cost more at a new location.

 

Already, $3.7 million in taxpayer money has been spent designing those buildings.

 

The commission chose to forward Burgess' plan to the state Legislature without mentioning a particular site.

 

Once again, the Orange Bowl comes into play.

 

Last year, a plan to build a baseball stadium next to the aging Orange Bowl fell apart when state legislators ended their session before discussing a bill that would have plugged the Marlins' $30 million shortfall.

 

This time, the problem is twofold: The team still needs that money, and City Manager Pete Hernandez must navigate negotiations between the University of Miami and the city to improve the decaying structure, while convincing his commission that the Marlins need to play there, too.

 

EITHER/OR

 

The problem is, it likely has to be one or the other.

 

''I don't think that's a scenario in this go-round, having both,'' said Hernandez.

 

The 70-year-old Orange Bowl is home to a UM football team that is threatening to leave if Miami doesn't spend about $170 million to renovate the structure.

 

The team is expected to make its decision in about 45 days.

 

But Miami can't afford both projects, Hernandez said.

 

So, ''we have to be very cautious [in negotiations] right now,'' he said.

 

Real estate experts interviewed agree the Orange Bowl, with its vast expanse and less-intensive underground infrastructure, would be an easier place to build a new stadium.

 

''Maybe it's time the Orange Bowl gets torn down,'' said Michael Y. Cannon, managing director of South Florida's Integra Realty Resources.

 

Land downtown around Government Center sells for about $9 million an acre. Mary Conway, Miami's chief of operations, says she's not aware of any other available city-owned property where a training center for Miami police could be built.

 

County Budget Director Jennifer Glazer-Moon said talks are under way with Florida East Coast Industries about building the Children's Courthouse on a tract of land it owns just east of the Government Center.

 

COSTLY DEAL

 

Current plans for the two sites take up just under five acres -- two similar sites could cost as much as $45 million, according to Cannon.

 

Burgess said building on the FEC site could be quicker and cheaper, but some county commissioners listening to his argument weren't convinced because he failed to provide details.

 

''If the top priority is the Children's Courthouse, why did this come before us with a complete plan for the Children's Courthouse?'' Commissioner Katy Sorenson asked Burgess.

 

The county manager's response: ``We believe we can build it faster and potentially less expensive.''

 

Chief Circuit Court Judge Joseph Farina addressed the commission, saying he wanted to make sure county staff doesn't hurt a project he's crusaded almost a decade for. ''I just hope I'm not wrong in keeping the faith with you,'' he said.

 

PRICEY DESIGNS

 

Workers have yet to break ground on the courthouse or the College of Policing, but the city and county have paid architects and engineers millions of dollars to design the buildings.

 

Additional costs involved with changing sites could include surveying, soil tests and moving utilities under ground, landscaping -- even building new right-of-way for supply trucks to enter and exit the buildings, agreed Duncan Broyd, managing principal of the architectural firm HOK, which is undertaking the courthouse project.

 

''No two sites are alike,'' said Cannon, ``but the biggest problem is finding the land.''

 

The nine-acre tract the Marlins crave lies on city- and county-owned land between Government Center to the south, Metrorail to the east, Northwest Fourth Street to the north, and the Miami police headquarters on the west.

 

The $33 million, 102,000-square-foot College of Policing would be built on 1.5 acres just south of Miami police headquarters at 400 NW Second Ave.

 

Construction could begin by year's end, and be done sometime in 2009.

 

Kelly Penton, Miami's director of communications, said work on the academy has cost $1.16 million. But Hernandez said little research has been done on an alternative location.

 

County administrators dismiss talk of added costs, saying there's a chance the 300,000-square-footprint of the courthouse could be picked up and moved at little or no expense. The entire site is about 3.4 acres.

 

2011 TARGET DATE

 

Glazer-Moon said construction of the 11-floor, $118 million building could begin next year and be completed by 2011.

 

The county has spent $2.5 million on its design.

 

''I just think that our priorities should be children over baseball,'' the Juvenile Court's top judge, Cindy Lederman, said after learning of Burgess' plan.

 

The judge said she often hears rats scurry along the ceiling of the 30-year-old rotting Juvenile Assessment Center on Northwest 27th Avenue that the county built, then promptly sold to the state for $1.

 

''This [courthouse] is a mirror of what society feels about [the juveniles],'' Lederman said.

 

Adding to any delay could be the time it takes Miami and county commissioners to approve any move -- a political hot potato.

 

SAVE THE CHILDREN

 

''Let me make this very clear. I leveraged a lot of political capital on not losing the funding source for that [courthouse] building. This is critical to us. As important and nice as baseball may be, the children and the courthouse should not come second to playing ball,'' said County Commissioner Sally Heyman.

 

Heyman was instrumental in passing a measure three years ago that increased fines for moving traffic violations. It's that money that is going toward the construction of the courthouse.

 

Burgess has always maintained that if the courthouse plan is affected negatively in any way, he'd fight to stop any attempt to build a baseball stadium downtown.

 

''We're very intrigued by the urban location,'' said Burgess.

 

``But there are issues we still have to resolve.''