November 8, 200718 yr http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/articl...sp&c_id=fla Tight-budgeted Marlins aim to improve 11/07/2007 2:00 PM ET By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- So often when it comes to free agency, dollar figures matter, as the league's big spenders are better suited to sign the marquee names. The way the cost-conscious Marlins see the upcoming signing period, the real numbers they are focused on are .977 and 5.58. Those two figures mean more to the organization than having a surplus of millions to attract veteran talent. Team president of baseball operations Admin Beinfest is used to working with limited financial resources. But that has never been an excuse or a deterrent for the team's expectations to contend. In order to get back into serious playoff contention, improving on .977 and 5.58 are critical. "It's too early to speculate in general about free agents, trades, any of that kind of stuff," Beinfest said. "We know what areas we need to improve on, specifically our starting pitching needs to improve, and our defense needs to improve." Two primary reasons why the Marlins finished last in the National League East for the first time since 1999 was because they ranked last in the Major Leagues in fielding percentage (.977) and starting pitching ERA (5.58). November 12 marks the first day free agents are eligible to sign with other clubs. The Marlins have three players who have already filed to explore the market -- infielder Aaron Boone and pitchers Byung-Hyun Kim and Armando Benitez. It is unclear if any fit Florida's plans for '08. Team owner Jeffrey Loria has handed down payroll parameters, which the team isn't disclosing. Still, there is speculation it will roughly be about where it was in 2007, in the $30 million range. Considering the team is coming off a 71-91 season, Beinfest makes it clear that changes are inevitable. "We have to find ways to try to improve the ballclub, to try to shore up our deficiencies and try to win more games. The payroll, it doesn't matter," Beinfest said. "Whatever the payroll is, we have to find a way to try to get the job done. It's the same challenge that we would have every offseason." Until funding for a new stadium is secured, the Marlins find themselves standing on familiar ground, which is to spend their dollars wisely. Talks are continuing on the stadium front for a retractable-roof building at the Orange Bowl site in Miami. There even is some quiet optimism something could get done before the first of the year. The hope is to get a deal concluded by then so the Marlins can move into a new home for the 2011 season. Florida's current series of leases at Dolphin Stadium expire after 2010, so there is more urgency now than in previous years. As the stadium stalemate works itself out, the baseball operations is dealing with the budget they're being presented. When it comes to players, the status of two prominent All-Stars remains up in the air. Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, the lone remaining players from the 2003 World Series championship squad, both are in the arbitration process. They are eligible for free agency after the 2009 season. Although they are under club control, there still are doubts whether one or both will be back. Recently, Willis' agent, Matt Sosnick, went on record saying that in a conversation with Beinfest, he was informed the team plans on bringing the D-Train back. And new pitching coach Mark Wiley was given indications that Willis is part of the plans. A league source, however, says that about a week ago, the Marlins told teams that the status of Willis and Cabrera will be decided by ownership, and that could take another week or two before their directive is given. In the meantime, the Marlins are expected to at least explore scenarios involving Cabrera, the four-time All-Star who made $7.4 million in '07, and that figure should jump to more than $10 million. Willis, meanwhile, made $6.45 million this past season, and the left-hander also is in line for a raise. Beinfest declines to talk about any specific players or potential free agents. In years past, Florida certainly has been a franchise that will wheel and deal. Many of those moves have been money related, because affordability is an issue. Still, they've also shown the savvy to lure in terrific talent like shortstop Hanley Ramirez. Like Cabrera, Ramirez is a franchise-caliber player. The big question is whether the team can afford to keep that dynamic duo on the left side of its infield. Cabrera's conditioning and defensive struggles at third base also make him a candidate to either be dealt or switched to another position like first base. Another issue the front office is wrestling with is whether the team can realistically expect to contend in 2008. If it feels it is a few years away, then parting with Cabrera now for major parts as the team moves forward may be the direction it goes. "Considering we finished last in the league in pitching and last in the league in defense, I don't think we're close enough to where we want to be," Beinfest said. "But can we get there, given our inventory and what we think we may have, beginning in '08 and into the future? Yeah, we're still confident and optimistic that we can get there. But the reality is where we are coming from, it's hard to say that you're close when you finish last in two very key categories." Rebuilding the rotation presents a challenge because several candidates that were being counted on in '07 went down with injuries. Josh Johnson is expected to miss all of next season as he recovers from Tommy John elbow reconstruction surgery. Anibal Sanchez is coming off shoulder surgery, and he isn't expected to be ready for Opening Day. Ricky Nolasco was plagued by a sore elbow most of the season, and the right-hander is pitching in the Arizona Fall League to compile some innings as he builds back arm strength. A starter in 2006, Nolasco may end up being a bullpen choice. Sergio Mitre got off to a fast start, but labored with some arm fatigue in the final months. Rick VandenHurk, a rookie, was commendable, and he will get a shot to win a rotation spot. And lefty Scott Olsen dealt with inconsistencies on the mound and legal troubles off the field. If he remains focused, he promises to be an effective starter. There are prospects who promise to get a look in Spring Training, like Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson, Gaby Hernandez, Ryan Tucker and Brett Sinkbeil. Something the team is guarding against, however, is rushing the young arms too quickly. Florida is looking to avoid what happened this past season, when Johnson, Nolasco and Sanchez all were hurt either before or shortly into the '07 season. Exploring starting pitchers on the free-agent market promises to prove costly. The Marlins haven't had any player signed for more than one year the past two seasons, and multiyear contracts don't seem to be a priority at this point. "Long-term commitments and things like that would have to come from Jeffrey," Beinfest said. "So I don't know how we are positioned. We will make recommendations on players that may be beneficial to us, and we'll profile how to either obtain them or keep them, whatever it may be."
November 8, 200718 yr It's quite easy to put together a team that will be better than last year's, but that doesn't mean the team is going anywhere anytime soon. Now is there anywhere I can get some cheese with my whine?
November 8, 200718 yr I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role...
November 9, 200718 yr whatever if we deal cabrera it will be a shame and really sad for me to see and watch. But w.e....... Beinfest I trust. Just get us a stadium. keep us in south florida.
November 9, 200718 yr I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role... :lol
November 9, 200718 yr I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role... :lol First of all, I said don't laugh. Thanks for being so condecending. Second, you laugh as if Loria hasn't surprised us before. He's spent as much as $50-something million a year on this team. Right now, if he increased payroll to just $45 Million we could be one of the best three teams in the NL. And with the league breathing down his neck considering we're receiving more money from revenue sharing ect. than we ever have, I wouldn't be totally shocked. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.
November 9, 200718 yr if the marlins increased their payroll to 45 million i agree that it would be much improved. if we kept miggy and dontrelle, we would have 10 million to play with. they don't want to make this team better. they want to keep taking mlb welfare. our payroll after this firesale will be about 15 million, watch.
November 9, 200718 yr I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role... :lol First of all, I said don't laugh. Thanks for being so condecending. Second, you laugh as if Loria hasn't surprised us before. He's spent as much as $50-something million a year on this team. Right now, if he increased payroll to just $45 Million we could be one of the best three teams in the NL. And with the league breathing down his neck considering we're receiving more money from revenue sharing ect. than we ever have, I wouldn't be totally shocked. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless.
November 9, 200718 yr if the marlins increased their payroll to 45 million i agree that it would be much improved. if we kept miggy and dontrelle, we would have 10 million to play with. they don't want to make this team better. they want to keep taking mlb welfare. our payroll after this firesale will be about 15 million, watch. Although I hope otherwise, Prinmemito has it right I'm afraid... just more of the same bs from the front office to try and justify their actions
November 9, 200718 yr We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless. Christ, dude. Seriously, you've been annoying as hell the last few days.
November 9, 200718 yr We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless. Christ, dude. Seriously, you've been annoying as hell the last few days. This is all about money and I can't believe anyone would argue otherwise. With that said, if Beinfest finds a retarded GM to deal with then we can come out ahead but even if he does it doesn't change the motivation behind the deal.. money.
November 9, 200718 yr I'd like to remind everyone Loria went on a spending binge because he was trying to build public support for a stadium. Firesale 2.0 was in response to the OB deal falling through that October. I don't see any There is no incentive for him to spend his money at the present time. We got lucky in 2003, the championship held off the inevitable for a few more years. But looking back now, I'm not sure that group would have stayed together for the 2004 season. Keep living in that fantasy world, if you wish. But don't get pissy when you're called out for denying the truth or proposing something as outlandish as a payroll hike. This is a salary dump and nothing more. What has gone on here during the last three years is not standard operating procedure around MLB. Loria, Samson and Co. are running a rogue mismanaged franchise.
November 9, 200718 yr We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless. Christ, dude. Seriously, you've been annoying as hell the last few days. This is all about money and I can't believe anyone would argue otherwise. With that said, if Beinfest finds a retarded GM to deal with then we can come out ahead but even if he does it doesn't change the motivation behind the deal.. money. I'm not arguing that, and I don't think anyone is. But there are people who can look at it from the baseball side and see how we might come out ahead. Calling people clueless, misguided, whatever is annoying, and thats all Swift has been doing lately. He needs to come off his high horse (and the rest of you as well) and see that despite our not crying and whining about it, we are still hurt. It's just that I realize the reality of the situation. It's too late to sign him, so we might as well get what we can.
November 9, 200718 yr Author We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless. Christ, dude. Seriously, you've been annoying as hell the last few days. This is all about money and I can't believe anyone would argue otherwise. With that said, if Beinfest finds a retarded GM to deal with then we can come out ahead but even if he does it doesn't change the motivation behind the deal.. money. I'm not arguing that, and I don't think anyone is. But there are people who can look at it from the baseball side and see how we might come out ahead. Calling people clueless, misguided, whatever is annoying, and thats all Swift has been doing lately. He needs to come off his high horse (and the rest of you as well) and see that despite our not crying and whining about it, we are still hurt. It's just that I realize the reality of the situation. It's too late to sign him, so we might as well get what we can. I agree with everything except it is not too late to sign Cabrera! A man can only dream however
November 10, 200718 yr We got lucky in 2003, the championship held off the inevitable for a few more years. But looking back now, I'm not sure that group would have stayed together for the 2004 season. Keep living in that fantasy world, if you wish. But don't get pissy when you're called out for denying the truth or proposing something as outlandish as a payroll hike. This is a salary dump and nothing more. What has gone on here during the last three years is not standard operating procedure around MLB. Loria, Samson and Co. are running a rogue mismanaged franchise. Why people try to make 2004 sound like 1998 is beyond me. Are memories that short or is this just another dismal attempt of exaggeration to slam ownership. I have my problems with the way things are done, but I don't see any reason to make up things to slam anyone.
November 10, 200718 yr We got lucky in 2003, the championship held off the inevitable for a few more years. But looking back now, I'm not sure that group would have stayed together for the 2004 season. Keep living in that fantasy world, if you wish. But don't get pissy when you're called out for denying the truth or proposing something as outlandish as a payroll hike. This is a salary dump and nothing more. What has gone on here during the last three years is not standard operating procedure around MLB. Loria, Samson and Co. are running a rogue mismanaged franchise. Why people try to make 2004 sound like 1998 is beyond me. Are memories that short or is this just another dismal attempt of exaggeration to slam ownership. I have my problems with the way things are done, but I don't see any reason to make up things to slam anyone. Statistically speaking (I know, blasphemy, right?) we lost a greater percentage of production in the lineup going from '03-'04 than we did going '97 to opening day '98. What that means is players that accounted for production on the preceding team, not production by the following year's team. There's no fault at all calling it a mini-firesale.
November 10, 200718 yr How convenient that stat undermines the accomplishments of Cabrera, Willis, Conine and the players that, you know, actually made that 2003 team successful.
November 10, 200718 yr How convenient that stat undermines the accomplishments of Cabrera, Willis, Conine and the players that, you know, actually made that 2003 team successful. Did we, or did we not lose both the OPS and ERA leaders from the 2003 squad by opening day 2004? Did we, or did we not, lose greater team production from the 2003 to 2004 squad by opening day than we did from 1997 to 1998?
November 10, 200718 yr If anyone wants perspective of the unsung firesale (I kinda like that, actually) here's how the stats shape up: 2003 team production (all players, opening day - closing day) HR - 157 R - 751 H - 1459 RBI - 709 Player totals lost in offseason (meaning 2003 production totaled) HR - 73 R - 327 H - 585 RBI - 326 Percentages lost (2003): HR - 46% R - 43.5% H - 40% RBI - 45.9% 1997 team totals: HR - 136 R - 740 H - 1410 RBI - 703 Player totals lost in offseason HR - 57 R - 246 H - 453 RBI - 703 Percentages lost (1997) HR - 41.9% R - 33.2% H - 32.1% RBI 39.2% How's that for perspective?
November 10, 200718 yr Firesale means trading to me. And you're excluding the players traded in the first few months of the '98 season. That really hurts your arguement.
November 10, 200718 yr Firesale means trading to me. And you're excluding the players traded in the first few months of the '98 season. That really hurts your arguement. Production lost is production lost. Fact of the matter is that the '98 team was viewed as having no means to compete. In large part, the 2004 team was swept under the rug, yet their situation is very similar.
November 10, 200718 yr So if the Yankees can't re-sign the players that are free agents, they're having a fire sale? They're losing about 40% of HRs and RBIs from last year. I really don't see how it's the same situation. Losing guys to Free Agency is nothing new, every team suffers from that.
November 10, 200718 yr So if the Yankees can't re-sign the players that are free agents, they're having a fire sale? They're losing about 40% of HRs and RBIs from last year. I really don't see how it's the same situation. Losing guys to Free Agency is nothing new, every team suffers from that. Yes, exactly. The 2008 Yankees would not have a chance to compete akin to the 2007 Yankees. However, the real problem in your argument is that the Marlins did trade Encarnacion and Lee. The only free agent that walked was Pudge. Lee, Redman, Encarnacion. Three players of consequence traded. Penny later traded. The 2004 team is a very relevant '98 comparison, even if it requires *gasp* thinking outside the box.
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