Dontrelle Willis remains inconsistent as Detroit Tigers lose to Toronto Blue Jays 5-3

 

The Associated Press Published: March 21, 2008

 

 

Tigers manager Jim Leyland knows Dontrelle Willis can succeed with his funky delivery. He just wants to see the same funky delivery each time.

 

Willis gave up five runs and seven hits with four walks in 3 1-3 innings in Detroit's 5-3 loss to the Toronto Blue Jays on Friday.

 

Willis didn't seem overly concerned. Leyland was, however, and said that Willis needs to develop more consistency. The left-hander, acquired with Miguel Cabrera during the offseason from the Florida Marlins, has a 6.59 earned run average and has been battling control problems.

 

"He's not doing his mechanics the right way," Leyland said. "I don't mind his funky delivery, but not all the different types of funkiness I've been seeing this spring."

 

Willis said he feels fine. (more)

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/21/...Jays-Tigers.php

 

 

 

Andrew Miller has strong outing in Marlins' 8-3 win

 

over Astros

 

KISSIMMEE, Fla. ? Florida's Andrew Miller picked a great time to have one of his best outings of the spring.

 

The 22-year-old lefty, still in the running to be Florida's opening day starter, allowed six hits and two runs in 5 2-3 innings of the Marlins 8-3 win over Houston on Friday.

 

Miller, who came to the Marlins as part of the trade that sent Dontrelle Willis to Detroit, is competing with Mark Hendrickson, Rick VandenHurk and Ricky Nolasco to start Florida's opener March 31 against the Mets...

 

..."That was a very good outing for him," Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez said of the sixth overall pick in the 2006 draft. "He is getting better every time out. He's making adjustments."

 

Miller was encouraged to have a solid outing with many of Houston's top hitters, including Carlos Lee and Lance Berkman, in the lineup.

 

"They had the lineup for the most part you've got to agree that they're going to go with," he said. "I think that's one of the good things of a game like this is that they're playing all their big guys."

 

Miller, who is from Gainesville, Fla., had a personal cheering section of more than a dozen friends and relatives on Friday.

 

"There's so many people here it's unbelievable," he said. "My family is pretty much all in the central and south Florida area. I left a lot of tickets." (edited and more)

 

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...NmGPlxY8nOJSIUA

I am not saying Willis will be a bust with the tigers , and I do think he has value because the guy is a virtual lock to take ball everytime his number is called , but I think the D-Trains best years are behind him . He may win 13- 15 games with the tigers but I think that will be function of their line up not his pitching

It's all good and well. But remember how the 2006 Marlins were the Grapefruit league champions? And then remember that first month or so of the season?

 

I hope Miller does succeed, this year and into the future. I also hope Dontrelle does too. And I wouldn't get so worked up over spring training numbers.

Not the first ST game Dontrelle has been wild this year. He's not looking sharp, and he has that effectively wild pitching style, but like we all know it can get away from him and the walks and hits start coming. I think Dontrelle is going to get hit pretty hard this year.

He usually has good april's, so he may be in trouble if he struggles off the bat.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

Beside his second ST outing which was 3 innings, Dontrelle has been awful. He has walked 11 and gave up 10ER in 13 IP. Grant it it's only ST, but his command still seems to be an issue.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

Beside his second ST outing which was 3 innings, Dontrelle has been awful. He has walked 11 and gave up 10ER in 13 IP. Grant it it's only ST, but his command still seems to be an issue.

It's still not right to compare Miller's best to D-Train's worst. That article paints the picture if Miller as someone who has been in control and consistent, as opposed to someone who couldn't find the strikezone with a compass and a map a few times in ST.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

It's called a snapshot. a day in the life. no more. no less.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

Beside his second ST outing which was 3 innings, Dontrelle has been awful. He has walked 11 and gave up 10ER in 13 IP. Grant it it's only ST, but his command still seems to be an issue.

It's still not right to compare Miller's best to D-Train's worst. That article paints the picture if Miller as someone who has been in control and consistent, as opposed to someone who couldn't find the strikezone with a compass and a map a few times in ST.

 

Yea, I agree with you there 100%, by no means has Miller been commanding this spring. Just pointing out Willis has been a wreck.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

Beside his second ST outing which was 3 innings, Dontrelle has been awful. He has walked 11 and gave up 10ER in 13 IP. Grant it it's only ST, but his command still seems to be an issue.

It's still not right to compare Miller's best to D-Train's worst. That article paints the picture if Miller as someone who has been in control and consistent, as opposed to someone who couldn't find the strikezone with a compass and a map a few times in ST.

 

Yea, I agree with you there 100%, by no means has Miller been commanding this spring. Just pointing out Willis has been a wreck.

No no, I agree with you there. I just felt the comparison was unfounded.

Willis has also had some good outings and Miller has had some bad ones.

 

You can't compare the two on 1 day.

 

It's called a snapshot. a day in the life. no more. no less.

Then name the article "A Tale of Two Cities: 3/21/2008" as opposed to "A Tale of Two Cities: spring 2008".

For the record, I had planned to do it this morning when I realized they were both pitching today. I had the headline in my head right from the get go.

 

I've never said a single bad word about Dontrelle here or anywhere and in fact for much of spring training I've said it wouldn't be the worst thing if Miller sharpened his control with a stint in the minors.

 

I would have done this if the opposite result had occurred. If you notice I posted the two stories without any comment on my part. As I said above it was meant to be a snapshot, a day in the life, a portrait of two players.

 

So to suggest the comparison is unfounded is in reality just a roll of the dice.

We're all friends here and I respect what both of you write. In this case, if I was editor, I go with the 3/21/2008 headline over the Spring headline. It's more accurate as a "snapshot". If you go with the Spring you need to add your own comments to the stories you linked to.

For the record, I had planned to do it this morning when I realized they were both pitching today. I had the headline in my head right from the get go.

 

I've never said a single bad word about Dontrelle here or anywhere and in fact for much of spring training I've said it wouldn't be the worst thing if Miller sharpened his control with a stint in the minors.

 

I would have done this if the opposite result had occurred. If you notice I posted the two stories without any comment on my part. As I said above it was meant to be a snapshot, a day in the life, a portrait of two players.

 

So to suggest the comparison is unfounded is in reality just a roll of the dice.

Well, I apologize if I made it seem like I thought you were trying to manipulate the facts in your direction. I meant nothing of the sort to challenge your integrity.

 

But I felt that the the two articles in question, plus the title of the thread, made it seem as if it was a comparison of the sprint that both have had thus far rather than a snapshot of just one day, and it seems that others have too gotten that impression.

 

It is this indirect comparison, which was made by happenstance, that I felt was unfounded, because it truly was.

I wonder Rabb how you would have reacted if the performances of the two ballplayers was the the opposite and the headline and sub-head read the same way without comment on my part?

 

Respectfully, I think your over-thinking this one and perhaps just a little bit micro-managing the sub-head (not even the headline) of a message board post. Really, look at some of the stuff posted here, I try to at least bring a little wit or a literary reference or "something" to threads I start, and I just can't please everyone or worry over how someone is going take every little word I use.

 

I didn't call either player names. I let the words written by others speak for themselves as I had planned all day. I appreciate your words above but I honestly feel you're off-base, as I always say (and people hate it when I say it) this is a message board and people can post what they want and think what they want and form the opinions that they want. But it's also a two-way street.

I wonder Rabb how you would have reacted if the performances of the two ballplayers was the the opposite and the headline and sub-head read the same way without comment on my part?

Probably the same, given how I don't think D-Train is particularly good.

Respectfully, I think your over-thinking this one and perhaps just a little bit micro-managing the sub-head (not even the headline) of a message board post. Really, look at some of the stuff posted here, I try to at least bring a little wit or a literary reference or "something" to threads I start, and I just can't please everyone or worry over how someone is going take every little word I use.

I think I was completely justified in feeling that there was some sort comparison being made here. And it's not as if the sub-headline is somewhere on the next page, it is is clearly visible on the front of the forum page and at the top of this page, where it is on par with the headline. It doesn't take "over-thinking" to read the line directly under, or next to, the headline.

 

How am I supposed to take "Willis vs Miller, spring 2008" as anything but a comparison of their springs?

I didn't call either player names. I let the words written by others speak for themselves as I had planned all day. I appreciate your words above but I honestly feel you're off-base, as I always say (and people hate it when I say it) this is a message board and people can post what they want and think what they want and form the opinions that they want. But it's also a two-way street.

The thing is that the articles, coupled with "Willis vs Miller", makes it seem like a comparison. While it is now clear that this just came about a misunderstanding, I still think that with the information I was given, not knowing that you were going to post this regardless, I wasn't way off-anything.

I'm not going to argue with you but the very fact you feel you have to respond paragraph by paragraph really makes my point about micro-managing other people's posts and thoughts.

 

The objective was to start a thread "about" baseball not to dedicate a page to dissecting the sub-head of a post about baseball.

 

And I know it's a difficult concept for you to get your arms around but just because you read something a certain way doesn't mean that's the it's meant to, or should be read, even when a chorus of people who would have never given it a second thought read your comments and see something that isn't there too.

 

"Spring 2008" just as it says is the period, the season (in the spring, summer fall, winter sense) and if you actually read what was written (I included links to and indicators that there was more to each story) you would see that along with being a retelling of today's (really yesterday's considering the time) performances each article focuses on each players collective spring training. Writers often use a day's events as a metaphor for the a longer period of time, and my snapshot was meant to do that. It's a day, it's all of spring training, it's two players who have now been thrown together forever because the enormity of the trade they we both a part of.

The only logical conclusion I would come to when I see a subheading that says "Willis vs. Miller, spring 2008" is a comparison between the two. There's nothing in the original post that in alters that perception.

I'm not going to argue with you but the very fact you feel you have to respond paragraph by paragraph really makes my point about micro-managing other people's posts and thoughts.

 

The objective was to start a thread "about" baseball not to dedicate a page to dissecting the sub-head of a post about baseball.

 

And I know it's a difficult concept for you to get your arms around but just because you read something a certain way doesn't mean that's the it's meant to, or should be read, even when a chorus of people who would have never given it a second thought read your comments and see something that isn't there too.

 

"Spring 2008" just as it says is the period, the season (in the spring, summer fall, winter sense) and if you actually read what was written (I included links to and indicators that there was more to each story) you would see that along with being a retelling of today's (really yesterday's considering the time) performances each article focuses on each players collective spring training. Writers often use a day's events as a metaphor for the a longer period of time, and my snapshot was meant to do that. It's a day, it's all of spring training, it's two players who have now been thrown together forever because the enormity of the trade they we both a part of.

 

Marlins2003, your either calling someone a troll or whining in your post. Whats got your panties in a bunch?

I think Dontrelle would have had a decent year here with Mark Wiley as pitching coach.

The only logical conclusion I would come to when I see a subheading that says "Willis vs. Miller, spring 2008" is a comparison between the two. There's nothing in the original post that in alters that perception.

 

I'm with you and Rab on this one. It looked like he was trying to compare the two for the entire ST thus far. And the original post didn't change that.

 

All in all it's nothing to get uptight about. I don't really care all that much how DTrain's Spring is going. I do care about how Miller's is going, and it isn't all that great. But I think in the long run Miller will become the better pitcher of the two.

I think Dontrelle would have had a decent year here with Mark Wiley as pitching coach.

 

Can't argue that.

I'm not going to argue with you but the very fact you feel you have to respond paragraph by paragraph really makes my point about micro-managing other people's posts and thoughts.

 

The objective was to start a thread "about" baseball not to dedicate a page to dissecting the sub-head of a post about baseball.

 

And I know it's a difficult concept for you to get your arms around but just because you read something a certain way doesn't mean that's the it's meant to, or should be read, even when a chorus of people who would have never given it a second thought read your comments and see something that isn't there too.

 

"Spring 2008" just as it says is the period, the season (in the spring, summer fall, winter sense) and if you actually read what was written (I included links to and indicators that there was more to each story) you would see that along with being a retelling of today's (really yesterday's considering the time) performances each article focuses on each players collective spring training. Writers often use a day's events as a metaphor for the a longer period of time, and my snapshot was meant to do that. It's a day, it's all of spring training, it's two players who have now been thrown together forever because the enormity of the trade they we both a part of.

First off, there is absolutely no reason to be so defense. there reason I responded paragraph-by-paragraph was because you made different points in each paragraph. It's much neater, nicer, and easier to make a point that way. It has nothing to do with "micro-managing"....

 

And what is that even supposed to mean? Because I read something that you wrote and try to take it in context, that's micro-managing? Is that really dissecting? Oh no sir, that is what we call "reading comprehension". It's not my fault that you decided to leave the point of the thread extremely vague and ambiguous. Please don't point the finger at me as if the misunderstanding of your grand "metaphor" was the fault of my "micro-managing", take responsibly for the vagueness of your post that I, and others, were confused by.

 

There wouldn't even have been an argument if you had just accepted that you made a mistake in your titling as opposed to defending yourself as if you were being attacked and pointing the finger at me. I didn't do anything but read what you wrote.

Well even if you were to compare Miller's spring versus Dontrelle's spring, numerically Miller has had a better spring even though he has struggled at times.

 

Miller in 22.2 innings has a 3.97 ERA and a 1.59 WHIP, while Willis in 13.2 innings has a 6.59 ERA and a 2.05 WHIP.

 

I'm not saying Miller is better than the train, but its clear that D-train has had a horrendous spring, not just the game on March 21.