i understand full well that when you bunt and give up an out, your chances for a big inning are diminished

 

In almost every scenario, when you bunt and give up an out your chances of scoring ANY runs are diminished.

but in that situation we would have had 2nd and third with 1 out with jake and willy coming up who both were taking real good cuts against morris...that is definitely a situation in which you bunt

 

I would like to see the matrix controlled against OPS... and Uggla can't bunt, but he can certainly hit.

i understand full well that when you bunt and give up an out, your chances for a big inning are diminished

 

In almost every scenario, when you bunt and give up an out your chances of scoring ANY runs are diminished.

but in that situation we would have had 2nd and third with 1 out with jake and willy coming up who both were taking real good cuts against morris...that is definitely a situation in which you bunt

 

I would like to see the matrix controlled against OPS... and Uggla can't bunt, but he can certainly hit.

why cant he bunt? someone please explain this to me

There is no garauntee that Uggla gets a bunt down there.

Normally I wouldn't want to take the bat out of Uggla's hands but the third baseman was playing behind the bag and staying close in of double play. The last thing they were thinking about was Uggla bunting.

 

But it's always easy to look at things in hindsight and admittedly as I was sitting there bunting was the last thing on my mind.

There is no garauntee that Uggla gets a bunt down there.

there is never a guarentee of getting a bunt or a basehit or anything...but that inning in question sets up alot better with 2nd and 3rd, 1 out and jakey and hammer comin up

I would like to see the matrix controlled against OPS... and Uggla can't bunt, but he can certainly hit.

why cant he bunt? someone please explain this to me

 

Because he sucks at it. And I am pretty sure that if the chance to score a single run is controlled for OPS, somebody with an .800+ is going to be better off hitting. Already a sacrifice ALWAYS reduces the average runs per inning.

I would like to see the matrix controlled against OPS... and Uggla can't bunt, but he can certainly hit.

why cant he bunt? someone please explain this to me

 

Because he sucks at it. And I am pretty sure that if the chance to score a single run is controlled for OPS, somebody with an .800+ is going to be better off hitting. Already a sacrifice ALWAYS reduces the average runs per inning.

but we would have had two guys, both with speed in scoring position with our power hitters coming up...its a hell of alot better than a pop up and double play

I think that the advantages of bunting are drastically overstated. If you don't trust Uggla to swing away or get on base in that situation (it's early...6th inning), he shouldn't be the number two hitter.

 

I think that should be the real concern here.

i would have bunted in that situation too...in our stadium...we should be trying to win games with pitching, speed and defense...not relying on the home run all the time...did everything work out last night? sure did...but we got two great assists in the outfield which potentially saved the game

 

as for the argument that uggla cant bunt and he is a power hitter...i think that if you reach the major league baseball level...you should know how to bunt...its not very difficult and takes less than 2 minutes of practice a week to get good at it...

 

i understand full well that when you bunt and give up an out, your chances for a big inning are diminished...and you know what i say...SO WHAT...we have alot of great hitters on our team...we are going to score runs irregardless...but sometimes...sometimes...you only need one or two...and then the pressure shifts to the other team to try to match you...and with our absolutely stellar bullpen...when the game starts to reach the later innings...we should be playing to scratch out a lead however we can rather than waiting for a big inning that is home run based

 

You ever tried to bunt a 90 mile per hour fastball or a breaking pitch? I'd love to see you try after practicing for less than two minutes a week. I know you aren't a major league player and shouldn't be expected to, but let's give you a 60 mile per hour batting practice fastball and see how you do, just to be fair. Bunting is not easy and very few people can do it well, regardless of the level at which they play. I agree that a major league player should be able to do it, but it is definitely not as easy as you seem to think it is.

i have bunted many pitches at the high school level and did it with a aluminum bat which is much more difficult...and my little cousin practices it for roughly two minutes a week as a minor leaguer in the braves system...everyone at the big league level should know how to bunt...i dont care if its pujols, david ortiz or whomever...would you want them to bunt? no...but its nice to know that if EVER...if ever...the situation arises, that they can...

 

last night was definitely a situation in which we should have bunted and no stat or table or whatever will ever convince me differently

I would like to see the matrix controlled against OPS... and Uggla can't bunt, but he can certainly hit.

why cant he bunt? someone please explain this to me

 

Because he sucks at it. And I am pretty sure that if the chance to score a single run is controlled for OPS, somebody with an .800+ is going to be better off hitting. Already a sacrifice ALWAYS reduces the average runs per inning.

but we would have had two guys, both with speed in scoring position with our power hitters coming up...its a hell of alot better than a pop up and double play

 

Since stats, the only thing other than some random feeling in our gut, cannot possibly convince you otherwise, this entire discussion is moot.

i would have bunted in that situation too...in our stadium...we should be trying to win games with pitching, speed and defense...not relying on the home run all the time...did everything work out last night? sure did...but we got two great assists in the outfield which potentially saved the game

 

as for the argument that uggla cant bunt and he is a power hitter...i think that if you reach the major league baseball level...you should know how to bunt...its not very difficult and takes less than 2 minutes of practice a week to get good at it...

 

i understand full well that when you bunt and give up an out, your chances for a big inning are diminished...and you know what i say...SO WHAT...we have alot of great hitters on our team...we are going to score runs irregardless...but sometimes...sometimes...you only need one or two...and then the pressure shifts to the other team to try to match you...and with our absolutely stellar bullpen...when the game starts to reach the later innings...we should be playing to scratch out a lead however we can rather than waiting for a big inning that is home run based

 

You ever tried to bunt a 90 mile per hour fastball or a breaking pitch? I'd love to see you try after practicing for less than two minutes a week. I know you aren't a major league player and shouldn't be expected to, but let's give you a 60 mile per hour batting practice fastball and see how you do, just to be fair. Bunting is not easy and very few people can do it well, regardless of the level at which they play. I agree that a major league player should be able to do it, but it is definitely not as easy as you seem to think it is.

i have bunted many pitches at the high school level and did it with a aluminum bat which is much more difficult...and my little cousin practices it for roughly two minutes a week as a minor leaguer in the braves system...everyone at the big league level should know how to bunt...i dont care if its pujols, david ortiz or whomever...would you want them to bunt? no...but its nice to know that if EVER...if ever...the situation arises, that they can...

 

last night was definitely a situation in which we should have bunted and no stat or table or whatever will ever convince me differently

 

 

Well it is nice to know that you can be our Brett Butler if a MarlinBaseball.com team ever needs to be assembled to play another team comprised of message board members.

 

And yes, every big league player SHOULD be able to do it, but many of them can't. I personally hate bunting, but I broke a finger attempting it in my freshman year, so that could have something to do with it.

ha...im far from brett butler...but to me...bunting is to hitting what shielding your eyes from the sun when catching the ball is to fielding...if you cant do either...you shouldnt be playing at the highest level

 

and yeah...i think if some SOB broke my finger while i was bunting...id be less in favor of it...but as it stands...we should definitely be trying to steal more and bunt given the right situation when fredi had guys bunt what? 4 times the other night? which is a little much IMO

Since stats, the only thing other than some random feeling in our gut, cannot possibly convince you otherwise, this entire discussion is moot.

 

on second thought, my elbow was twitching during Uggla's at bat, he SHOULD have bunted. When my knee acts up, that means swing away.

we all know fredi is a mentally handicapped jackass but can't this wait till july?

One problem we had last year was moving runners over a doing little things like that offensively. We have heard the FO and Fredi talking about an increased emphasis on moving runners over and producning runs all offseason rather than relying on the long ball. Yet when the oppurtunities arise Fredi does the same thing, I dont get it.

 

My recipe for a 2008 World Series title--------the tigers go 0-16, they fire Leyland :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup

 

Peace Fredi, bring me Jimmy, bring me another ring :shifty :shifty :shifty :shifty

Hanley 2....you sound a bit angered, maybe you should take up some sort of smoking habit to quell this madness of yours :thumbup

:hat

 

 

mark hendrickson looks like brian cohen's bastard lovechild

Uggla shouldn't bat 2nd. He lacks OBP skills, he isn't a contact hitter, and he can't bunt. None of that changes the fact that the situation in question does not call for a bunt.

Uggla shouldn't bat 2nd. He lacks OBP skills, he isn't a contact hitter, and he can't bunt. None of that changes the fact that the situation in question does not call for a bunt.

i agree that uggla shouldnt bat 2nd...but IMO...there are few other situations in baseball that you should bunt...that was the time above all others that you should bunt

not in the 6th

not in the 6th

with our bullpen being a strength of the team...why not? would you rather have a 1 or 2 run lead in the 6th or be tied?

I really don't believe anyone is wrong here. It is a matter of management styles.

 

We could make a strong argument for either approach. The small ball approach would dictate moving runners along the basepaths to try to score in order for the pitching to preserve the leads.

 

The other approach is to trust your hitters to push them in.

 

You can't really win this argument. The philosophy will dictate the best strategy.

The numbers from the matrix would suggest that it was better to hit away in that situation but only by a slight advantage (1.573 runs to 1.467 runs), which is why you have to take into account who is up to bat and where the defense is playing. Knowing Uggla can't bunt would make me inclined to let him swing away. But if Amezaga is up there with a RISP of .165, he's bunting.

Fredi Gonzalez is not a good manager. He doesn't even manage games, he sits on his ass and waits for the long ball to bail him out.

 

 

SITUATION...

 

 

Runners on first and second (Hanley and Andino, respectively), NO OUTS, 6th Inning, Tie Game, Dan Uggla the #2 hitter is up...

 

 

What should you do? Ask Uggla to BUNT! That would leave runners on second and third with one out and the #3 and #4 hitters coming up. All you need is a sac fly or possibly even a grounder. Not only that, runners on second and third negates the double play possibillity.

 

 

WHAT DOES FREDI DO? NOT A DAMN THING. Let's Uggla go up there and try to hit. What happens? Uggla pops up. No runners advance. Next batter? Jacobs grounds into an inning-ending double play.

 

 

Fredi Gonzalez's conecpt of not moving runners (on steals, bunts, etc.) because he doesn't want to "give away outs" is well, STUPID. Especially considering the lineup the Marlins have. Our team gives away outs by going up to bat! We need to start manufacturing runs by moving runners and creating pressure.

 

 

Oh, and Amezaga needs to be starting every day. He didn't do much tonight in the box score 0-2, 2 walks. But he is the only batter we have who knows how to work a count and take pitches. He had an AB that was about 13 pitches against Morris and ended up drawing the walk. It seems like every other hitter we have (especially Uggla) just goes up there and hacks at the first three pitches.

 

 

:notworthy

I AGREE!

I said this on last night's GDT before the result of Uggla's pop-up. I thought he should've been bunting also.

The numbers from the matrix would suggest that it was better to hit away in that situation but only by a slight advantage (1.573 runs to 1.467 runs), which is why you have to take into account who is up to bat and where the defense is playing. Knowing Uggla can't bunt would make me inclined to let him swing away. But if Amezaga is up there with a RISP of .165, he's bunting.

 

This is the right answer.

Fredi Gonzalez is not a good manager. He doesn't even manage games, he sits on his ass and waits for the long ball to bail him out.

 

 

SITUATION...

 

 

Runners on first and second (Hanley and Andino, respectively), NO OUTS, 6th Inning, Tie Game, Dan Uggla the #2 hitter is up...

 

 

What should you do? Ask Uggla to BUNT! That would leave runners on second and third with one out and the #3 and #4 hitters coming up. All you need is a sac fly or possibly even a grounder. Not only that, runners on second and third negates the double play possibillity.

 

 

WHAT DOES FREDI DO? NOT A DAMN THING. Let's Uggla go up there and try to hit. What happens? Uggla pops up. No runners advance. Next batter? Jacobs grounds into an inning-ending double play.

 

 

Fredi Gonzalez's conecpt of not moving runners (on steals, bunts, etc.) because he doesn't want to "give away outs" is well, STUPID. Especially considering the lineup the Marlins have. Our team gives away outs by going up to bat! We need to start manufacturing runs by moving runners and creating pressure.

 

 

Oh, and Amezaga needs to be starting every day. He didn't do much tonight in the box score 0-2, 2 walks. But he is the only batter we have who knows how to work a count and take pitches. He had an AB that was about 13 pitches against Morris and ended up drawing the walk. It seems like every other hitter we have (especially Uggla) just goes up there and hacks at the first three pitches.

 

 

:notworthy

I AGREE!

I said this on last night's GDT before the result of Uggla's pop-up. I thought he should've been bunting also.

For the record, Uggla has put down 11 Sac Bunts in 1429 PAs. He also managed to have the bunt foul out to the Cather 4 times. He also has 64 RBIs when batting with 0 outs.

 

So I am sticking with "he doesn't bunt alot".