Baker's first AB tonight.... Homer to RF

2nd AB he lined out.

 

 

(boredom has sunk in- I hate studying)

Not consciously.

 

He has a tendency to stick with mediocre talent in the past. While to say this is strictly a pride issue is perhaps incorrect, it is perhaps exposing a hole in his baseball sense.

 

Why did he stick with Olivo? Abercrombie? Julio? Now Rabelo. To a lesser extent you can consider some of the old starting pitchers: Oliver, Obermueller, Moehler, Leiter.

 

Honestly, I was calling for Baker to replace Olivo as early as last season.

 

Good to see someone else sees this as well as I do. Rabelo is a clear example of the FO's stubborness. Another would be Abercrombie a couple of years ago. He just isn't MLB caliber player and yet it was a while before he was sent down.

How can you guys talk about the catcher's position, when rich and tommy say, that is one position on the team that is solid, don't need any changing.

How can you guys talk about the catcher's position, when rich and tommy say, that is one position on the team that is solid, don't need any changing.

I respect Tommy's opinion more than most people do it seems, but this is one area where I find him to be completely incorrect.

 

If he is talking simply about not trading for new talent this season, then I agree. But there is a good catching option waiting to be recalled.

Eh...I don't know if I'd call Baker a "good" catching option. I certainly agree that Catcher is far and away our weakest position. But I mean, Baker just seems like Matt Treanor with the bat, but (from what I've read atleast) with bad defense and a poor arm. Baker is a single's hitter that walks and strikes out about the same amount, exactly what Treanor is. Baker probably has a little bit more power, but their both putting up similiar SLG numbers in the PCL (at 27, Treanor put up a .441 SLG in Alb. Baker, now 27, has a .455 SLG).

 

I do like the fact that Baker is a left handed at bat, but he'll probably only put up a mid-high .600 OPS. I don't think Rabelo is this bad and could probably put up a low to mid .600 OPS. Treanor...I mean, his walk numbers are back on the rise, but now his power numbers are just horrible. I do think he would go back to being a mid .600 OPS guy but I also admit that that also probably has to do with the fact that I do like him, and part of me really is just like "cut the guy". But anyway, for as little as Baker would be an upgrade offensively, you then have to look at how much of a defensive downgarde it would be.

 

A Rabelo (v.s. LHP)/Baker (v.s. RHP) platoon could be rather interesting and I certainly wouldn't complain if they ended up doing that, infact I'd love to see what it could do, but I really wouldn't be putting our marbles on calling it the answer either.

Their PCL numbers are very similar but that does not automatically mean that Baker would put up equivalent numbers to Treanor. Keep in mind he's also five years younger. I don't have any doubts that he can easily match Treanor's production.

 

I also don't think you'd lose much defensively. Treanor is arguably the worst defensive catcher in the NL right now after maybe Russell Martin.

I agree, I'm just saying, I'd rather go out and get somebody. By the time Skip's ready, they'll be deep in arbitration anyway.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

 

 

The Rays lead the league in SB's.

It's not really any "secret."

Matt Treanor isn't exactly Mike Piazza.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

 

 

The Rays lead the league in SB's.

It's not really any "secret."

Matt Treanor isn't exactly Mike Piazza.

 

There weren't many attempted steals against the Marlins before that series. A lot of the plays were not even that close.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

 

 

The Rays lead the league in SB's.

It's not really any "secret."

Matt Treanor isn't exactly Mike Piazza.

 

There weren't many attempted steals against the Marlins before that series. A lot of the plays were not even that close.

 

The Rays are the most aggressive team in baseball.

Plus, the fact it wasn't even close, shows that the pitchers had just as much, if not more, to do with it, as well.

Yeah...both Miller and Hendrickson are tall and lanky (Hendrickson is the one that really ran against us on IIRC), and Idon't really think any of our pitchers are good at holding runners.

 

They certainly aren't Yadier Molina, but they also aren't Josh Bard. They're arms are probably more around average/slightly below average, with Treanor's also probably deteriating.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

 

 

The Rays lead the league in SB's.

It's not really any "secret."

Matt Treanor isn't exactly Mike Piazza.

 

There weren't many attempted steals against the Marlins before that series. A lot of the plays were not even that close.

The Rays steal on everyone. They've stolen a major league leading 80 bases in 69 games. The only team that is even close is the Houston Astros with 72.

Don't you just kind of feel that LoDuca will be on the team in a month if they are still a few games from the wild card. Isn't that just a so Marlins move.

No, not him. Definitely not.

 

I do think, however, having a good catcher is essential to winning. Look at most of the teams who win the championship in the last decade....most have very good catchers.

No, not him. Definitely not.

 

I do think, however, having a good catcher is essential to winning. Look at most of the teams who win the championship in the last decade....most have very good catchers.

 

 

 

If the Marlins are able to stay in contention another month...I think you'll see an upgrade.

Not anything major or anything b/c no team is gonna give up on a good catcher, but perhaps the 2 veterans in Washington (Lo Duca, Estrada) or someone else. Anything is better than this combo, really. Treanor and Rabelo are just like Olivo...good backups.

I agree, I'm just saying, I'd rather go out and get somebody. By the time Skip's ready, they'll be deep in arbitration anyway.

Not arguments here. I'm just talking about the very immediate future. I've seen enough of Rabelo. He hasn't earned his place and Baker is hitting very well regardless of PCL inflation.

 

Don't you just kind of feel that LoDuca will be on the team in a month if they are still a few games from the wild card. Isn't that just a so Marlins move.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Beinfest loves Lo Duca and the Nationals are terrible. He'll overpay for him a second time.

Expect to see more teams steal bases versus the Marlins after the Rays ran all over our catchers. Granted, the Rays have a lot of speed, but now the secret is out.

 

Its pretty obvious to me that the Rays were actually capitalizing on the inability of our pitchers to hold runners on. I don't think their steals had anything to do with Treanor. On most of them there wasn't a single pickoff attempt.

If Baker is up I'd actually perfer Rabelo to stay up here. It's an extremely small sample size but he's hit lefties a lot better than righties so far in his career (.710 OPS v.s. .596 OPS). I'm not sure what the rest of his minors are like, but in 2006 it was very similiar (In AAA: .978 OPS v.s. .698 OPS, in AA: .847 OPS v.s. .764 OPS), and it'd make sense considering the whole becoming a switch hitter in college thingy. Considering I doubt Baker would start again LHP, and Treanor has actually been worse against LHP than RHP in his career, I think Rabelo would be the ideal platoon partner.

 

I'm also pretty sure Treanor can be sent down...he's not out of options and he needs 5 years of service time to decline an option (he has 3).

I'd have to disagree.

 

Rabelo has seen mostly LHP this season and has proven he can't hit period. Hence, I can't find the logic in handing him split starting time. Is he really as bad as he is playing now? Perhaps not, but we all knew he wasn't a good player when the Marlins got him.

 

Baker actually hits LHP pretty well (this season he is, at least...I can't find the splits pre-2008) despite hitting lefty. He's putting up nearly .800 OPS there even with nearly all of his power coming against RHP.

 

I advocate bringing up Baker to give him a few trial starts. If he can prove that he can match Treanor's production, give him the job and use Treanor on off-days.

Just letting you know his pre-08 splits:

 

2005

LHP:.229/.229/.314/.613

RHP:.237/.302/.380/.682

 

2006

LHP:.184/.322/.224/.547

RHP:.294/.371/.420/.792

 

2007

LHP:.350/.422/.375/.797

RHP:.300/.379/.500/.879

 

So last year he hit for a higher average too, but both last year and this year he's had a horrible LD% (12%) and an incriedbly high babip. His LD% this year and last year is actually a % smaller than in 2006 and 2005 (13%), where he hit .184 and .229 off them....so I don't really think he's learned to hit LHP, rather just getting "lucky" for lack of a better word. And both years he's only had one XBH.

 

But then again I doubt talking about this really matters since I severly doubt Baker gets called up

Not consciously.

 

He has a tendency to stick with mediocre talent in the past. While to say this is strictly a pride issue is perhaps incorrect, it is perhaps exposing a hole in his baseball sense.

 

Why did he stick with Olivo? Abercrombie? Julio? Now Rabelo. To a lesser extent you can consider some of the old starting pitchers: Oliver, Obermueller, Moehler, Leiter.

 

Honestly, I was calling for Baker to replace Olivo as early as last season.

 

Couldn't it have more to do with a limited payroll, and a lack of better options? He traded for Baker as well. Wouldn't that also make Baker a Beinfest guy? I just think they know more about Bakers game than we do, and they must not be very impressed.

The chances of Baker coming up to pair with Rabelo so the Marlins can send Treanor down is about zero. Is it worth debating? I suppose so, but real-world at this point in the season and the familiarity both Rabelo and Treanor have with the rotation and relievers far outweighs anything Baker could bring in Treanor's place.

 

Baker is having an excellent year offensively I'm not taking anything away from him, it's just that the risk reward isn't there at the major league level. I don't think it's by accident the A's cut him twice and the Marlins once.

Baker is having an excellent year offensively I'm not taking anything away from him, it's just that the risk reward isn't there at the major league level. I don't think it's by accident the A's cut him twice and the Marlins once.

 

 

But the Marlins also have the third worst catcher OPS. Seattle isn't that far behind in 4th, but the 5th worst team is 37 points higher. the MLB average for C is 117 points higher.

 

1. SD .521 (didn't realized just how bad they were doing there)

2. HOU .573 (Towles just wasn't ready)

3. FL .603

4. SEA .609

 

MLB average: .720

 

We are tied second in the MLB in errors from the catcher posistion. Only 6 more teams have given up more SB (SD has given up 90, the second highest is CHW at 68...on the brightside we're lightyears ahead of them at C? haha)

 

It's more of what is there to lose? We are getting horrible production out of catcher. If we call up Baker and he sucks too, well, it's not like we'll do worse.

 

But as I said it's also extremely unlikely he will be called up so shrug

Just letting you know his pre-08 splits:

 

2005

LHP:.229/.229/.314/.613

RHP:.237/.302/.380/.682

 

2006

LHP:.184/.322/.224/.547

RHP:.294/.371/.420/.792

 

2007

LHP:.350/.422/.375/.797

RHP:.300/.379/.500/.879

 

So last year he hit for a higher average too, but both last year and this year he's had a horrible LD% (12%) and an incriedbly high babip. His LD% this year and last year is actually a % smaller than in 2006 and 2005 (13%), where he hit .184 and .229 off them....so I don't really think he's learned to hit LHP, rather just getting "lucky" for lack of a better word. And both years he's only had one XBH.

 

But then again I doubt talking about this really matters since I severly doubt Baker gets called up

Based on those splits I'd say he is certainly capable of warranting starts against LHP and RHP, since Rabelo has demonstrated consistently this season that he can't hit either side.

 

Not consciously.

 

He has a tendency to stick with mediocre talent in the past. While to say this is strictly a pride issue is perhaps incorrect, it is perhaps exposing a hole in his baseball sense.

 

Why did he stick with Olivo? Abercrombie? Julio? Now Rabelo. To a lesser extent you can consider some of the old starting pitchers: Oliver, Obermueller, Moehler, Leiter.

 

Honestly, I was calling for Baker to replace Olivo as early as last season.

 

Couldn't it have more to do with a limited payroll, and a lack of better options? He traded for Baker as well. Wouldn't that also make Baker a Beinfest guy? I just think they know more about Bakers game than we do, and they must not be very impressed.

He started Abercrombie despite having multiple options such as Ross, Amezaga, and even Borchard. In 2006 he severely misused the Amezaga/Ross platoon, which would have been a viable option.

 

In 2007 he traded for (and overpaid for) Jorge Julio because he had it in his mind that he wanted a closer with experience, despite the fact that several arms more than earned the position in spring training. Not surprisingly, Beinfest had Julio in mind as early as 2005 (if not earlier) when he was considered to be a piece of a AJ Burnett trade.

 

Also in 2006/2007 he stuck with Miguel Olivo. Olivo was not only retained for 2007 but was handed a large sum of cash without being taken to arbitration. He was given the majority of the starts despite solid offensive production by Matt Treanor.

 

These are only a few examples of Beinfest players, but some of the primary examples of him sticking with mediocre talent for questionable reasons.

 

This attitude that Beinfest can do no wrong is becoming highly ridiculous. He's a solid GM but I can't say he's one of the best in baseball, like most people here constantly do.