The fact that he was an average MiLB hitter in his early 20s means absolutely nothing to me. As for scouting reports, depending on your source, they're nothing more than (un)educated guesses. I remember reading a scouting report on Hanley that said he would never become a good hitter because of the shoulder problems he had early in his career.

 

The trade means nothing? So you'd throw two good players at a division rival in return for a 24-year-old and then just say "Oh well, we made a bad trade" before the guy even takes the field for you?

 

Come on.

 

 

So what am I supposed to do? His MLB stats aren't a good enough sample, the minor league stats mean nothing to you, scouting reports are uneducated guesses...

What am I supposed to base anything off of?

 

Am I supposed to put on my teal colored glasses, and pretend all will be fine and dandy b/c his name is Emilio or something? It is what is. Mind you, the mediocre #'s he put up in the numbers are as "flawed" in his favor, as McPherson's. Bonifacio, too, had the luxury of playing in the PCL last year where he put up a whopping .735 .OPS. I guess I'll just put my glasses on and assume he'll become better, by facing MLB pitching, playing in one of the worst hitters parks in baseball for half his games. Should be fun.

I can't let myself believe that we gave up both Olsen and Willingham for a backup. I believe he will contribute much more than he is being given credit for.

 

As for his lack of offense, I'm ok w/ that. This team can use his defensive prowess. I remember having Lowell, Gonzalez, and Castillo in our infield. Damn, that was nice to have those gloves behind our pitchers. Would be nice to head in that direction once again.

 

Lowell ranged from a low .800 OPS to a high .800, so basically average to above average for a 3B. Gonzo was usually good for around .750, avg for a SS. And Luis was an on base machine. Those were great players because they could field and hit pretty well (or in Luis and Lowell's case, very well.)

 

Bonifacio might be a defensive wizard, but I don't ever seen him being more than the .700 OPS guy he was in the minors. That's not worth a starter CI spot.

So what am I supposed to do? His MLB stats aren't a good enough sample, the minor league stats mean nothing to you, scouting reports are uneducated guesses...

What am I supposed to base anything off of?

 

Am I supposed to put on my teal colored glasses on, and pretend all will be fine and dandy b/c his name is Emilio or something? It is what is. Mind you, the mediocre #'s he put up in the numbers are as "flawed" in his favor, as McPherson's. Bonifacio, too, had the luxury of playing in the PCL last year where he put up a whopping .735 .OPS. I guess I'll just put my glasses on and assume he'll become better, by facing MLB pitching, playing in one of the worst hitters parks in baseball for half his games. Should be fun.

As opposed to throwing the guy under the bus before he even gets a chance to play? Yeah.

As opposed to throwing the guy under the bus before he even gets a chance to play? Yeah.

 

 

The double standard is quite hilarious from you.

We're not supposed to throw Bonifacio under the bus before he "gets his chance," yet you're doing the same exact thing with Dallas McPherson, who has actually proven he can put up solid to great #'s at every level against right-handed pitching.

 

To use your words... "come on."

I can't let myself believe that we gave up both Olsen and Willingham for a backup. I believe he will contribute much more than he is being given credit for.

 

As for his lack of offense, I'm ok w/ that. This team can use his defensive prowess. I remember having Lowell, Gonzalez, and Castillo in our infield. Damn, that was nice to have those gloves behind our pitchers. Would be nice to head in that direction once again.

 

Lowell ranged from a low .800 OPS to a high .800, so basically average to above average for a 3B. Gonzo was usually good for around .750, avg for a SS. And Luis was an on base machine. Those were great players because they could field and hit pretty well (or in Luis and Lowell's case, very well.)

 

Bonifacio might be a defensive wizard, but I don't ever seen him being more than the .700 OPS guy he was in the minors. That's not worth a starter CI spot.

 

 

When I gave those three individuals, I didn't mean to compare Bonifacio to their offensive statistics. I only wanted to point out how lucky we were to have those three guys backing up our pitchers for their defensive abilities. OPS was not where I wanted to take this. I believe that it would be nice to head in the direction of providing our pitchers w/ strong defense like Lowell/Gonzalez/Castillo provided our pitchers back then. Bonifacio, IMO, fits the mold of contributing to our team in that capacity. Again, in a defensive capacity. That is all.

When I gave those three individuals, I didn't mean to compare Bonifacio to their offensive statistics. I only wanted to point out how lucky we were to have those three guys backing up our pitchers for their defensive abilities. OPS was not where I wanted to take this. I believe that it would be nice to head in the direction of providing our pitchers w/ strong defense like Lowell/Gonzalez/Castillo provided our pitchers back then. Bonifacio, IMO, fits the mold of contributing to our team in that capacity. Again, in a defensive capacity. That is all.

 

You don't start a player simply for defense, however. He's gonna have to produce, offensively, as well.

The double standard is quite hilarious from you.

We're not supposed to throw Bonifacio under the bus before he "gets his chance," yet you're doing the same exact thing with Dallas McPherson, who has actually proven he can put up solid to great #'s at every level against right-handed pitching.

 

To use your words... "come on."

Wouldn't you agree that McPherson has had a lot more of a chance than Bonifacio and all he's done with it is hit RHP and that we have plenty of guys on the roster that can do that same exact thing and then some and that we need to improve vastly defensively?

When I gave those three individuals, I didn't mean to compare Bonifacio to their offensive statistics. I only wanted to point out how lucky we were to have those three guys backing up our pitchers for their defensive abilities. OPS was not where I wanted to take this. I believe that it would be nice to head in the direction of providing our pitchers w/ strong defense like Lowell/Gonzalez/Castillo provided our pitchers back then. Bonifacio, IMO, fits the mold of contributing to our team in that capacity. Again, in a defensive capacity. That is all.

 

You don't start a player simply for defense, however. He's gonna have to produce, offensively, as well.

 

He will produce. Not as much as we may want him to, but he will produce something. Nevertheless, keeping him down for a year won't kill us. Considering our situation, I'll be very satisfied w/ keeping him down while bringing McPherson up for the year. Next year when we get rid of some of our players, we'll give Bonifacio a chance to make the team next ST. Regardless, he'll be under our control for a while anyway.

The double standard is quite hilarious from you.

We're not supposed to throw Bonifacio under the bus before he "gets his chance," yet you're doing the same exact thing with Dallas McPherson, who has actually proven he can put up solid to great #'s at every level against right-handed pitching.

 

To use your words... "come on."

Wouldn't you agree that McPherson has had a lot more of a chance than Bonifacio and all he's done with it is hit RHP and that we have plenty of guys on the roster that can do that same exact thing and then some and that we need to improve vastly defensively?

 

McPherson's had injury problems in the past. He has 470 career AB's, with a season high of 205 in a season. Not exactly the greatest of samples either.

As for your 2nd point...McPherson has actually outproduced Cantu in his career against right-handed pitching...and there's no reason to really think that Gaby Sanchez is going to have great success against righties either. I'd say McPherson serves a purpose.

 

As for our need to vastly improve defensively...not like this. You don't "vastly improve defensively" by becoming drastically worse offensively. Over the course of a season, offense will outweigh defense. It's the reason why offensive studs who suck defensively like Miguel Cabrera get nice contracts, while guys on the other side, like Nick Punto, do not.

Plus, many scouting reports have stated that McPherson has improved, defensively. I've seen plenty call him an average 3B, defensively, as well.

When I gave those three individuals, I didn't mean to compare Bonifacio to their offensive statistics. I only wanted to point out how lucky we were to have those three guys backing up our pitchers for their defensive abilities. OPS was not where I wanted to take this. I believe that it would be nice to head in the direction of providing our pitchers w/ strong defense like Lowell/Gonzalez/Castillo provided our pitchers back then. Bonifacio, IMO, fits the mold of contributing to our team in that capacity. Again, in a defensive capacity. That is all.

 

You don't start a player simply for defense, however. He's gonna have to produce, offensively, as well.

 

He will produce. Not as much as we may want him to, but he will produce something. Nevertheless, keeping him down for a year won't kill us. Considering our situation, I'll be very satisfied w/ keeping him down while bringing McPherson up for the year. Next year when we get rid of some of our players, we'll give Bonifacio a chance to make the team next ST. Regardless, he'll be under our control for a while anyway.

 

 

 

 

There's not much reason to believe he will, however. That's the point.

I don't even know why we're talking about Bonifacio and McDallas battling for a spot when it should clearly be COGHLAN, our major-league ready left-handed bat, and McDallas.

 

Sorry to jump in, continue.

I don't even know why we're talking about Bonifacio and McDallas battling for a spot when it should clearly be COGHLAN, our major-league ready left-handed bat, and McDallas.

 

Sorry to jump in, continue.

 

 

I heard he played a little 3rd but wasnt very good there. I figure as much as i love Dan hes gone after next year and Coghlan will get his shot. Untill then he'll get reg playaing time in the minors and he can smooth out his d.

I don't even know why we're talking about Bonifacio and McDallas battling for a spot when it should clearly be COGHLAN, our major-league ready left-handed bat, and McDallas.

 

Sorry to jump in, continue.

 

 

I heard he played a little 3rd but wasnt very good there. I figure as much as i love Dan hes gone after next year and Coghlan will get his shot. Untill then he'll get reg playaing time in the minors and he can smooth out his d.

 

Wasn't he considered an average defensive third baseman coming out of college? It is his natural position...

my issue with Coghlan is I don't think he'll be able to hit enough for third (or field at a Pedro Feliz-like level to balance his offense) and we'd be better off picking something off the FA heap. It's really 2b or bust for him being a starting player.

You don't start a player simply for defense, however. He's gonna have to produce, offensively, as well.

 

He will produce. Not as much as we may want him to, but he will produce something. Nevertheless, keeping him down for a year won't kill us. Considering our situation, I'll be very satisfied w/ keeping him down while bringing McPherson up for the year. Next year when we get rid of some of our players, we'll give Bonifacio a chance to make the team next ST. Regardless, he'll be under our control for a while anyway.

 

 

 

 

There's not much reason to believe he will, however. That's the point.

 

Wow. I'm really sad that Beinfest traded for someone who will not produce anything in any capacity, ever, and provides absolutely no evidence that he ever will. Beinfest really blew this one. Badly.

I don't even know why we're talking about Bonifacio and McDallas battling for a spot when it should clearly be COGHLAN, our major-league ready left-handed bat, and McDallas.

 

Sorry to jump in, continue.

 

 

I heard he played a little 3rd but wasnt very good there. I figure as much as i love Dan hes gone after next year and Coghlan will get his shot. Untill then he'll get reg playaing time in the minors and he can smooth out his d.

 

Wasn't he considered an average defensive third baseman coming out of college? It is his natural position...

I think it is by like nny said with he has to step up his D.

I don't even know why we're talking about Bonifacio and McDallas battling for a spot when it should clearly be COGHLAN, our major-league ready left-handed bat, and McDallas.

 

Sorry to jump in, continue.

 

 

I heard he played a little 3rd but wasnt very good there. I figure as much as i love Dan hes gone after next year and Coghlan will get his shot. Untill then he'll get reg playaing time in the minors and he can smooth out his d.

 

Wasn't he considered an average defensive third baseman coming out of college? It is his natural position...

I think it is by like nny said with he has to step up his D.

 

I don't see Coghlan producing anything less than Gaby Sanchez, or being much worse defensively, and he's being handed the most significant offensive position on the field... Gaby and Chris are almost identical offensive players, with one a left and one a righty. Contact, line-drive gap-to-gap hitters that get on base, and don't strike out. Frankly, I think both of them are ideal for the offensive direction this club is going toward. Coghlan is extremely similar to John Baker with that bat IMO, but with more power.

there is a big difference in Gaby's power and Coghlan's power. Gaby should reach double digit, possibly around ~15 HRs. It is unlikely that Coghlan will reach double digits. And it's not just HRs. I mean, just look at their numbers last year in AA. Gaby hit 10 more HRs and had an ISO .068 points higher.

 

I mean sure, Coghlan showed power a couple years ago in Greensboro, but so does everybody. And again, Gaby's Greensboro ISO was .077 points higher than Coghlan's.

 

You really can't expect anything more than a .400 OPS from CC and that probably won't be until his mid-late 20's.

there is a big difference in Gaby's power and Coghlan's power. Gaby should reach double digit, possibly around ~15 HRs. It is unlikely that Coghlan will reach double digits. And it's not just HRs. I mean, just look at their numbers last year in AA. Gaby hit 10 more HRs and had an ISO .068 points higher.

 

I mean sure, Coghlan showed power a couple years ago in Greensboro, but so does everybody. And again, Gaby's Greensboro ISO was .077 points higher than Coghlan's.

 

You really can't expect anything more than a .400 OPS from CC and that probably won't be until his mid-late 20's.

 

 

This was a typo, right?

there is a big difference in Gaby's power and Coghlan's power. Gaby should reach double digit, possibly around ~15 HRs. It is unlikely that Coghlan will reach double digits. And it's not just HRs. I mean, just look at their numbers last year in AA. Gaby hit 10 more HRs and had an ISO .068 points higher.

 

I mean sure, Coghlan showed power a couple years ago in Greensboro, but so does everybody. And again, Gaby's Greensboro ISO was .077 points higher than Coghlan's.

 

You really can't expect anything more than a .400 OPS from CC and that probably won't be until his mid-late 20's.

 

 

This was a typo, right?

 

seriously, that's cold. Needs to have a below .100 OBP and just as terrible slugging % to get that kind of OPS. I say a .650-700 is more his range.

yeah that's suppose to be SLG

 

Obviously fault on my part for the typo but that shouldn't have been that hard to decipher (more so pointed at Dim than Erik)...

there is a big difference in Gaby's power and Coghlan's power. Gaby should reach double digit, possibly around ~15 HRs. It is unlikely that Coghlan will reach double digits. And it's not just HRs. I mean, just look at their numbers last year in AA. Gaby hit 10 more HRs and had an ISO .068 points higher.

 

I mean sure, Coghlan showed power a couple years ago in Greensboro, but so does everybody. And again, Gaby's Greensboro ISO was .077 points higher than Coghlan's.

 

You really can't expect anything more than a .400 OPS from CC and that probably won't be until his mid-late 20's.

 

 

This was a typo, right?

 

seriously, that's cold. Needs to have a below .100 OBP and just as terrible slugging % to get that kind of OPS. I say a .650-700 is more his range.

 

 

Thats just about right .650- .750 plus he should have a bunch of singles with about 20-30 Stolen bases,a decent amount of doubles and can even turn thoose doubles into a fair amount of triples.

lol

Nice contribution. :thumbup

 

Sometimes that all you can say. And most times that's better than saying, "I know this guy will do this and this." and then exaggerate the deficiencies of the guys you are arguing against. Because you don't KNOW. It's what you think, which basically means squat.

 

If Dallas is still here come ST, then let them fight it out on the field. Let's see if Cantu's much improved defense in the second half of last season bleeds over into this Spring. If Dallas is still here come Opening Day, let's see if Helms is still the late inning defensive replacement at 3B instead of him. Like in Sept '08. Just because some here don't like Helms dosen't mean that was a bad signing. It does mean if he proves himself worthy again that those bashers will completely ignore it.

I think if Coghlan slugs around .420 he can definitely put up between a .750-.800 OPS. He won't ever slug a ton, but I could see him hitting 12-15 HR's a year with a lot of doubles. I also can't really see him getting on base below a .350 clip...

After reading all these posts I agree Helms was a bad signing b/c McDallas, Gaby & Cantu are compatable platoon partners and Boni was a bad trade now but when Almezaga is gone thats who's gonna take his spot. If Gibbons flops then we still need another LH OF.