June 1, 200917 yr Ok, don't kill me for this, actually think about it for a minute. If we ever want to dig ourselves out of the hole we are currently in, we're going to have to deal Hanley. We need a great many things, but we're desperately in need of some elite pitching. Unfortunately he's the only player on our roster that has great enough value to bring in some solid pitching. He alone could possibly give us an elite pitcher, a solid bat, and a few good prospects or even an elite one. Not only that, but as an unselfish fan I think it'd be better for his career. He may be the only superstar in the league that gets absolutely no credit, publicity, or attention. At the start of the season he was talked about a lot, but since that time he's been virtually non existent in the media. I wonder, will he make the All Star team? I'm not sure, but I am however sure that we are going to have to deal Hanley to get us over the hump. Some will say we can't deal him because he's our best player, but guess what? We aren't winning with him, and I think it's be better for him and us if we dealt him. Any thoughts?
June 1, 200917 yr I would very surprised if Hanley gets traded but a JJ trade wouldn't surprise me because if he keeps pitching the way he has he'll get too expensive maybe not next year but his last arby year in '11 he could get $12 million or something like that and I don' think Loria would pay it.
June 1, 200917 yr Author I would very surprised if Hanley gets traded but a JJ trade wouldn't surprise me because if he keeps pitching the way he has he'll get too expensive maybe not next year but his last arby year in '11 he could get $12 million or something like that and I don' think Loria would pay it. We can't trade JJ. Our pitching would really go to hell.
June 1, 200917 yr In another thread nny went pretty much through our whole team and a few of our prospects and if we'd want to trade them and what we could possibly get for them. I think it came down to ricky as the guy we could trade and get something for assuming he regains his form. If we trade hanley the general fan base and media will yell payroll cut or firesale, it would be hard to sell to the public. I'm not completly opposed to it because if we could get some serious proven talent and prospects for him I'd do it.
June 1, 200917 yr I think (hope) jj gets the last two years plus a year or two of FA bought out this offseason.
June 1, 200917 yr I think (hope) jj gets the last two years plus a year or two of FA bought out this offseason.
June 1, 200917 yr We really do not need a "stud" pitcher. JJ is a stud pitcher. Volstad is turning into a good #2 pitcher. Right now, what we need, is 3 guys who can go out there and give us quality starts. And we have a lot of options out of that. Ricky still has a very good chance of turning into that. Andrew looks like he's at that point now (2 QS in the 3 starts coming back from injury, just 1 IP shy of all of them being QS). Anibal still could be that, depends how he does coming back from injury. West has a decent chance of being that this year. Badenhop might be able to be that. Our problem so far has been pitching, yeah, but it shouldn't continue to be a problem going forward. It was a problem because sh*t just completely hit the fan, with two guys being injured and a third being ineffective. That should not continue going forward. And our offense is not good, either. We are second to last in the NL in OPS. And unlike our pitching, it doesn't look all that bright. Trading Hanley would completely cripple our offense. it wouldn't matter if we got Zack Greinke and he continues pitching this way the entire year, our offense would be so bad we would not be able to win games. So, no, it makes zero sense. What we need right now is another quality bat, not another quality starter.
June 1, 200917 yr Someone said this in another thread... our offense has been bad since the middle of last season. Was it August where we just never got that clutch hit or scored many runs? We all know how good Ricky, JJ and Volstad were in the 2nd half of 2008, but the offense just wasn't there for us. It hasn't been there for us this season either. Granted, the starting pitching this season hasn't been what we, or anyone, expected, but the last week or so should give us hope. It should remind us that the starting pitching could be back to click into place again. JJ has been outstanding, Volstad has been very good and we know what Ricky and Miller are capable of. Can West or Sanchez be that decent No.5 starter? I really think so. You win championships with starting pitching and I honestly believe we have the framework in place. We don't need to trade Hanley to get anything here. Even Zack Greinke pitched 8 innings against the Angels, gave up 4 hits and 1 run.... he still lost because his team didn't score any runs. We need Hanley where he is, we need him to do everything he's capable of. If we can just get the people on base in front of him, he will drive them in and he can carry this club. His RBI total so far is disappointing because, as so oftenly discussed, Bonifacio has a terribad OBP and isn't getting the job done. Maybe with Coghlan now leading off, things can be sparked and change. I'm not denying that our offense really does need a boost, but I don't believe losing Hanley will do anything but make it a bigger problem.
June 1, 200917 yr Author Someone said this in another thread... our offense has been bad since the middle of last season. Was it August where we just never got that clutch hit or scored many runs? We all know how good Ricky, JJ and Volstad were in the 2nd half of 2008, but the offense just wasn't there for us. It hasn't been there for us this season either. Granted, the starting pitching this season hasn't been what we, or anyone, expected, but the last week or so should give us hope. It should remind us that the starting pitching could be back to click into place again. JJ has been outstanding, Volstad has been very good and we know what Ricky and Miller are capable of. Can West or Sanchez be that decent No.5 starter? I really think so. You win championships with starting pitching and I honestly believe we have the framework in place. We don't need to trade Hanley to get anything here. Even Zack Greinke pitched 8 innings against the Angels, gave up 4 hits and 1 run.... he still lost because his team didn't score any runs. We need Hanley where he is, we need him to do everything he's capable of. If we can just get the people on base in front of him, he will drive them in and he can carry this club. His RBI total so far is disappointing because, as so oftenly discussed, Bonifacio has a terribad OBP and isn't getting the job done. Maybe with Coghlan now leading off, things can be sparked and change. I'm not denying that our offense really does need a boost, but I don't believe losing Hanley will do anything but make it a bigger problem. We could trade Hanley and get 3 solid bats better than everyone in our lineup with the exception of maybe Uggla and Cantu and possibly two better than them. We could trade Hanley for an actual foundation. No matter how good Hanley is, as we've seen, with just him in the lineup we aren't going anywhere.
June 1, 200917 yr We could trade Hanley and get 3 solid bats better than everyone in our lineup with the exception of maybe Uggla and Cantu and possibly two better than them. We could trade Hanley for an actual foundation. No matter how good Hanley is, as we've seen, with just him in the lineup we aren't going anywhere. Who are you realistically thinking of? Think about it, check out some teams, see who you want and report back to us.
June 1, 200917 yr Trade Hanley? Are u serious. . .what were you on when you wrote that? Trade Uggly and get a reliable SP for him!
June 1, 200917 yr Author Trade Hanley? Are u serious. . .what were you on when you wrote that? Trade Uggly and get a reliable SP for him! Nothing, why not trade him? It isn't as if we're winning with him. Uggla has less than average trade value. And to the poster above. I'm almost positive we could get Justin Upton and Felipe Lopez from Arizona.
June 1, 200917 yr Author We could probably get Jake Peavy and a bat or two from the Padres. We could probably get Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome, and maybe(It's a stretch) Carlos Marmol from Chicago. I'll keep researching.
June 1, 200917 yr We could probably get Jake Peavy and a bat or two from the Padres. We could probably get Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome, and maybe(It's a stretch) Carlos Marmol from Chicago. I'll keep researching. Carlos Zambrano rhp 5 years/$91.5M (2008-12), plus 2013 vesting option Kosuke Fukudome of 4 years/$48M (2008-11) So you want to trade for approx. $90-100 million in older player contracts, when Hanley Ramirez is entering his prime? As for the Padres, Peavy has significantly higher road stats than home stats, and the Padres do not have superstar level bats to trade in addition to him (Headley is OK, that's about it). This doesn't work. --- What NNY said is right. I can't believe the crap some people post.
June 1, 200917 yr Trade Hanley? Are u serious. . .what were you on when you wrote that? Trade Uggly and get a reliable SP for him! Nothing, why not trade him? It isn't as if we're winning with him. Uggla has less than average trade value. And to the poster above. I'm almost positive we could get Justin Upton and Felipe Lopez from Arizona. Cool. Felipe Lopez is a FA after this year and is represented by Scott Boras. Upton is no arguments great, but we have Maybin, Stanton, and Morrison in the wings. Just a stupid move to make. You realize Hanley is a potential 1.000 OPSing SS with above average defense, and not yet in his prime and signed for years? i.e., the best player in baseball to build a team around. STOP. PLEASE. STOP.
June 1, 200917 yr Let's look at this logically. You are saying trade Hanley, but who do we have to replace him? If we are going to trade pieces, we need to at least have pieces available to take over once we trade them. Thus why the only true players we can trade, get value for, and have replacements for are Cody Ross, Jeremy Hermida, or Dan Uggla (Cantu would become available for trade if Gaby Sanchez is healthy and showing MLB ready stuff or Logan is ready, doubtful). If we trade Hermida getting some ok return, we could call up either John Raynor or Scott Cousins to take over (same could be said about cody). As for Uggla, it's apparent that the team doesn't have him fit into the long term plans, so it really wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him gone come all star break. Then we would move Coghlan over the 2nd base, doing that would allow us to move Hermida to the LF position he is better defensively at (if not traded), and would open up a better defensive team in the outfield and would allow us to rebuild our farm system with top notch pitching for Uggla.
June 2, 200917 yr Let's look at this logically. stop right there. the logic look is there is no way you could even trade Hanley, even if you wanted to.
June 2, 200917 yr We could probably get Jake Peavy and a bat or two from the Padres. We could probably get Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome, and maybe(It's a stretch) Carlos Marmol from Chicago. I'll keep researching. Carlos Zambrano rhp 5 years/$91.5M (2008-12), plus 2013 vesting option Kosuke Fukudome of 4 years/$48M (2008-11) So you want to trade for approx. $90-100 million in older player contracts, when Hanley Ramirez is entering his prime? As for the Padres, Peavy has significantly higher road stats than home stats, and the Padres do not have superstar level bats to trade in addition to him (Headley is OK, that's about it). This doesn't work. --- What NNY said is right. I can't believe the crap some people post. what he said
June 2, 200917 yr [i have a question. Are we winning with Hanley? What does that have to do with it? Does this fallacy really need to be exposed? There may be good arguments for trading Hanley (actually, there really aren't), but this is far, far from being one of them. We would be even worse without him, now and into the future.
June 2, 200917 yr I have a question. Are we winning with Hanley? You could make that argument to trade every player on the roster. And Hanley is certainly doing his part to help us win....hitting over .330, keeping the errors down. He can't play all nine positions and hit every place in the order as well. I can't really believe that YOU believe this line of thinking.
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