What was so brilliant about that move, aside from the fact that it worked out?

Also, the Meyer outing? Really? You're giving him credit for trusting one of his better relievers...WITH A 7 RUN LEAD? I mean...that was just brilliant.

 

If we were to make lists of Fredi's good & bad moves this year...the list on the bad would have a lot more things on it. And again...I could list them, but that would just be a waste of time, wouldn't it? After all, I "don't know what's going on in the clubhouse!"

 

What would you consider a brilliant move, then? Because a move either makes sense or it doesn't. If the move makes sense and it works, and you say it's not brilliant then the only other 'brilliant' type of move would be for him to do something incredibly outrageous (such as walk to get to Werth, or w/e the situation was) and have it work. If it works, then it's brilliant. If it doesn't, then he's an idiot.

What was so brilliant about that move, aside from the fact that it worked out?

Also, the Meyer outing? Really? You're giving him credit for trusting one of his better relievers...WITH A 7 RUN LEAD? I mean...that was just brilliant.

 

If we were to make lists of Fredi's good & bad moves this year...the list on the bad would have a lot more things on it. And again...I could list them, but that would just be a waste of time, wouldn't it? After all, I "don't know what's going on in the clubhouse!"

 

What would you consider a brilliant move, then? Because a move either makes sense or it doesn't. If the move makes sense and it works, and you say it's not brilliant then the only other 'brilliant' type of move would be for him to do something incredibly outrageous (such as walk to get to Werth, or w/e the situation was) and have it work. If it works, then it's brilliant. If it doesn't, then he's an idiot.

 

 

Intentionally walking Paul Bako to face an All-Star, Jayson Werth, is not a good move, regardless of whether or not we would've gotten Werth out.

That's actually one of the most retarded moves I've ever seen a "manager" make. When Bako was being walked, I remember my dad telling me "the pitcher must be on deck, and they must have no pinch-hitters available." Then Werth came up, and we, basically, started laughing. B/c that's what it was...laughable.

 

Also, there's a difference between a good move and brilliant move. A brilliant move, imo, is a move I (not a big league manager) would never have considered. (Example...giving Brett Carroll a chance against LHP, with Hermida's struggles...I consider that a brilliant move b/c it worked, long-term, and I, personally, never even thought of it). Pinch-hitting your best pinch-hitters is not something I consider brilliant. It's more like logical. And he couldn't even get that done correctly the other day, when he pinch-hit Gload against a lefty, with Helms still on the bench.

Please, keep all Fredi talk in this thread.

 

Thank you and enjoy posting on Marlinsbaseball.com forums.

 

It's Where You Wanna Be!

Well, to start it off, putting Pinto in the game instead of our best relievers was both stupid and laughable. How could you trust Pinto in a tight game like that against a division opponent?

Well, to start it off, putting Pinto in the game instead of our best relievers was both stupid and laughable. How could you trust Pinto in a tight game like that against a division opponent?

 

Yeah. I mean, Pinto can be functional quite often (which is why he's had good ERAs for basically his entire career but the 2nd half of last year) but he's so inconsistant and wild that you really never know with him. Using him there over Meyer or Kiko was not a good idea, despite the outcome.

Well, to start it off, putting Pinto in the game instead of our best relievers was both stupid and laughable. How could you trust Pinto in a tight game like that against a division opponent?

 

Yeah. I mean, Pinto can be functional quite often (which is why he's had good ERAs for basically his entire career but the 2nd half of last year) but he's so inconsistant and wild that you really never know with him. Using him there over Meyer or Kiko was not a good idea, despite the outcome.

 

 

He also put Pinto out there (a lefty) to face Jayson Werth...who has murdered lefties this year. Should've, at least, opened up the 8th with Kiko, tonight.

And the last apperance for Calero and Meyer was August 4. They were both fresh and ready to use.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

I already agreed that he shouldn't have. But I can't figure out why stats guys don't understand why he did it. And to keep going back to it just to nit pick isn't the way to go. So let's review. Werth was coming off the ASB, a time when alot of players don't do well because of all the hoopla surrounding it. Going into that AB, Werth was a miserable 1-9 with 6 K's in that first post ASB series. I didn't like the decision, especially because it didn't work and it's so easy to know better after the fact, but I do understand why it was made.

 

And I highly doubt anyone on this board could do a better job that Fredi has been or is doing. Unles they have a time machine and can go back to change the decisions that didn't work until they can finally come up with one that does. Video games and real life are not the same. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

Like I said, if you guys really look into Pinto's outings you'll see that he ends up making a good pitch...

Pinto plays with fire nearly every time he pitches. Its going to bite him and the team in the butt.

Well, to start it off, putting Pinto in the game instead of our best relievers was both stupid and laughable. How could you trust Pinto in a tight game like that against a division opponent?

 

Yeah. I mean, Pinto can be functional quite often (which is why he's had good ERAs for basically his entire career but the 2nd half of last year) but he's so inconsistant and wild that you really never know with him. Using him there over Meyer or Kiko was not a good idea, despite the outcome.

 

 

He also put Pinto out there (a lefty) to face Jayson Werth...who has murdered lefties this year. Should've, at least, opened up the 8th with Kiko, tonight.

Doesn't Pinto have better numbers VS righties? I guess he went with Pintos strength over Werths. I know Meyer also has better numbers vs righties too.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

I already agreed that he shouldn't have. But I can't figure out why stats guys don't understand why he did it. And to keep going back to it just to nit pick isn't the way to go. So let's review. Werth was coming off the ASB, a time when alot of players don't do well because of all the hoopla surrounding it. Going into that AB, Werth was a miserable 1-9 with 6 K's in that first post ASB series. I didn't like the decision, especially because it didn't work and it's so easy to know better after the fact, but I do understand why it was made.

 

And I highly doubt anyone on this board could do a better job that Fredi has been or is doing. Unles they have a time machine and can go back to change the decisions that didn't work until they can finally come up with one that does. Video games and real life are not the same. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

So you're basing the move on 9 AB's by Werth? A sample of 9?

The hitter was Paul Bako...unless the pitcher is on deck, there is no way in hell you intentionally walk a Paul Bako.

Well, to start it off, putting Pinto in the game instead of our best relievers was both stupid and laughable. How could you trust Pinto in a tight game like that against a division opponent?

 

Yeah. I mean, Pinto can be functional quite often (which is why he's had good ERAs for basically his entire career but the 2nd half of last year) but he's so inconsistant and wild that you really never know with him. Using him there over Meyer or Kiko was not a good idea, despite the outcome.

 

 

He also put Pinto out there (a lefty) to face Jayson Werth...who has murdered lefties this year. Should've, at least, opened up the 8th with Kiko, tonight.

Doesn't Pinto have better numbers VS righties? I guess he went with Pintos strength over Werths. I know Meyer also has better numbers vs righties too.

 

 

Irrelevant. Looking at Werth's splits, you play to his flaw (or at least the opposite of his strength). You go with a righty in that situation.

Not really a "Fredi hater" thing but I did notice he's batting Bonifacio eighth again. Since he tried it with some success in a few inter-league games (if I remember correctly) just curious that he doesn't bat him ninth instead.

 

I'm sure there's a rationale, not sure I know what it is considering Coghlan is doing so well as of late.

Not really a "Fredi hater" thing but I did notice he's batting Bonifacio eighth again. Since he tried it with some success in a few inter-league games (if I remember correctly) just curious that he doesn't bat him ninth instead.

 

I'm sure there's a rationale, not sure I know what it is considering Coghlan is doing so well as of late.

 

 

 

Also don't like the fact that Bonifacio is playing CF. It's not necessary to take Cody Ross out of his position that he plays well, to insert Bonifacio there. Bonifacio was Licey's RF'er this past winter.

Also don't like the fact that Bonifacio is playing CF. It's not necessary to take Cody Ross out of his position that he plays well, to insert Bonifacio there. Bonifacio was Licey's RF'er this past winter.

 

 

He played all three outfield positions in Licey 2008-2009. While predominantly RF, during many games depending on managerial moves, like a lot of players he didn't end the game playing the same position as he started. Over the past two years that I could find records for he probably had 50+ starts in CF there.

Also don't like the fact that Bonifacio is playing CF. It's not necessary to take Cody Ross out of his position that he plays well, to insert Bonifacio there. Bonifacio was Licey's RF'er this past winter.

 

 

He played all three outfield positions in Licey 2008-2009. While predominantly RF, during many games depending on managerial moves, like a lot of players he didn't end the game playing the same position as he started. Over the past two years that I could find records for he probably had 50+ starts in CF there.

Please find them because I couldn't find any. And please don't do that "it's not my job to backup my own word" thing you like to do.

Also don't like the fact that Bonifacio is playing CF. It's not necessary to take Cody Ross out of his position that he plays well, to insert Bonifacio there. Bonifacio was Licey's RF'er this past winter.

 

 

He played all three outfield positions in Licey 2008-2009. While predominantly RF, during many games depending on managerial moves, like a lot of players he didn't end the game playing the same position as he started. Over the past two years that I could find records for he probably had 50+ starts in CF there.

Please find them because I couldn't find any. And please don't do that "it's not my job to backup my own word" thing you like to do.

 

I don't speak spanish and it takes through the archives on the Licey site. I did it this winter/spring with another guy who did (speak spanish and was similarly following Bonifacio who isn't around anymore but we pretty much followed every game between us. If you really feel the need be my guest. I'm sure you can query the mb.com archives to find his name if you want to start there.

Also don't like the fact that Bonifacio is playing CF. It's not necessary to take Cody Ross out of his position that he plays well, to insert Bonifacio there. Bonifacio was Licey's RF'er this past winter.

 

 

He played all three outfield positions in Licey 2008-2009. While predominantly RF, during many games depending on managerial moves, like a lot of players he didn't end the game playing the same position as he started. Over the past two years that I could find records for he probably had 50+ starts in CF there.

Please find them because I couldn't find any. And please don't do that "it's not my job to backup my own word" thing you like to do.

 

I don't speak spanish and it takes through the archives on the Licey site. I did it this winter/spring with another guy who did (speak spanish and was similarly following Bonifacio who isn't around anymore but we pretty much followed every game between us. If you really feel the need be my guest. I'm sure you can query the mb.com archives to find his name if you want to start there.

I did look, even through the Licey and leagues sites. Sadly they don't seem to have the gamelogs anymore and the Licey roster only shows him as the starting RFer.

Most of the MLB links to players in the winter leagues slowly became unoperative as the 2009 MLB season has gone on. In the DR there were actually two "seasons", the second was this extended round robin "playoffs" that was almost as long as the regular one. Some of those might still be around. If you can find the game notes (in spanish) - they might still be up somewhere on the web - it's play by play so when players change positions it's noted there. Sort of like a 2005 version of Gameday. 2007-2008 disappeared almost as soon as this last season started.

 

That website ??? USSTREAM.TV ??? something like that had these postage stamp sized feeds of the games from Licey. whether they archoive or not I don't know.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

I already agreed that he shouldn't have. But I can't figure out why stats guys don't understand why he did it. And to keep going back to it just to nit pick isn't the way to go. So let's review. Werth was coming off the ASB, a time when alot of players don't do well because of all the hoopla surrounding it. Going into that AB, Werth was a miserable 1-9 with 6 K's in that first post ASB series. I didn't like the decision, especially because it didn't work and it's so easy to know better after the fact, but I do understand why it was made.

 

And I highly doubt anyone on this board could do a better job that Fredi has been or is doing. Unles they have a time machine and can go back to change the decisions that didn't work until they can finally come up with one that does. Video games and real life are not the same. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

So you're basing the move on 9 AB's by Werth? A sample of 9?The hitter was Paul Bako...unless the pitcher is on deck, there is no way in hell you intentionally walk a Paul Bako.

 

No. A horendous series streak of 9 ABs with 6 Ks right after the ASB when alot of players historically tend to slump that participate in it. Combination of many things. And by saying he's an All Star is really stretching things. Yea he is. But who was the manager again and I guess there weren't any other OFs that were more highly qualified to be there this year?

 

And once again because you seem to want to ignore it, I didn't agree with it. I just understand the reasoning instead of opting to ignore what may of been going through his, Coyote's, and Toscas' heads and declaring myself far smarter with far more baseball savy than guys that have been at the professional level longer than most, including yourself, have been alive.