Ok, I am not saying that Freddi has been a good manager but you guys calling for his head need to realize the world does not exist on a stat sheet. None of you are in the trenches and know exactly what the players are saying or what information the managers have. I can just as well assume that Meyer told the management that he was not 100% ready to throw today and that he needed rest (do I know this to be the case? NO). But you cannot assume that a decision to bring in a certain reliever is always based PURELY on stats and not on other information that neither you nor I know since we do not see and talk to these guys every day.

 

ULTIMATELY it is up to the players to DO THEIR JOB. Freddi may not make the right decision at times (or at least it appears so, after the fact) but it is really ludicrous that some of you blame him for every wrong step this team takes. The players MUST HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

 

Furthermore, there is a lot more to managing a major league ball club than just playing the splits and making the right moves based only on stats. The players all have their own personalities and ego's and such and a manager must also maintain the chemistry on the ball club at times and cannot just reserve a player for garbage time only. Sometime they need to take a risk and use a player in a pressure situation to snap someone out of a funk or whatever. To be honest I have no clue but I do not think any of you could honestly do better so it just drives me crazy when you guys think of managing like this is EA Sports MLB Baseball.

 

/END RANT

 

 

P.S. I am not opposed to replacing Freddi.

I am of two minds regarding Freddi. On the one hand, this team has had noticeable holes in all of the seasons he has been our manager. Hitting, for example, which while he is ultimately in charge of, falls on Presley, who was not hired by Freddi. Despite the holes, he still got us to the best record we had in nonplayoff years last year. He is essentially managing with what he's got and is doing a fair job with it.

 

On the other, he still makes headscratching moves sometimes. I know Boni is the FO's guy, but Freddi could have at least moved him down in the order. I don't think he is actively losing us games, but some moves set us behind the 8 ball.

 

That being said, I don't know who you would replace him with. It would have to be someone with experience, otherwise we would get another year of learning how to manage, like we've seen from Freddi and even Girardi.

Fredi knows how to manage. He can manage circles around Girardi, Fredi paid his dues in the the minors.

 

 

The Emilio move was all about the front office, you cant fault him for that at all. I dont really have any problems with the job Fredi has done, the only thing I'd like is to move Cody up in the lineup, but it is what it is.

 

 

Hopefully Hermida in the 8 hole becomes permanent.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

 

The little bit in my post about Meyer served as an example of why I think second guessing moves from behind a computer is not smart, you just don't have all the information at the time, it is impossible for you to know what the relationships are between the players and managers and FO. You missed the entire point of my post, if that is the part you chose to respond to. Like I said, there is a lot more to managing an MLB club than making decisions based on stats and splits.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

 

The little bit in my post about Meyer served as an example of why I think second guessing moves from behind a computer is dumb. You missed the entire point of my post if that is the part you chose to respond to. Like I said, there is a lot more to managing an MLB club than making decisions based on stats and splits.

 

 

Managing is about giving your players the best CHANCE to win. The stats & splits have a lot to do with it. So yes, I don't understand the entire point of your post.

I can't get a hit off a major league pitcher with .RISP.

I can't pitch in the big leagues and get outs.

 

But it doesn't take a genius to manage.

 

Some of you need to realize that this isn't the first time Fredi does this type of thing. He's made several dumb moves this year...one of them being, quite possibly, the dumbest move I've ever seen a big league manager make (when he walked Bako to face Werth).

 

Also...I'm sure that if Meyer was unavailable today...it would've been said. Now you're just making excuses for the guy. Meyer didn't even pitch yesterday. The only guy they wanted to stay away from today was Pinto...and Pinto was warming up in the 8th. How does that make sense? It doesn't.

 

I'm not going to give Fredi credit when he's making millions at a job that I think some on this board could do better. And, again, I am serious when I say this.

 

 

 

The little bit in my post about Meyer served as an example of why I think second guessing moves from behind a computer is dumb. You missed the entire point of my post if that is the part you chose to respond to. Like I said, there is a lot more to managing an MLB club than making decisions based on stats and splits.

 

 

Managing is about giving your players the best CHANCE to win. The stats & splits have a lot to do with it. So yes, I don't understand the entire point of your post.

 

 

I changed my post I guess you replied before I submitted my edit. Anyhow, I am not saying playing the stats and splits is not part of it, in fact, it is a BIG part of it, obviously. What I am saying is that there are many other factors that drive the decisions a manager makes while managing a game.

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

fredi and porter are idiots and presley ain't getting it done. fire all 3, end of story.

The funny thing is we only notice the mistakes that Fredi makes, but we never acknowledge Fredi when he makes good decisions. Obviously any mistake a manager makes is more blatant than a non mistake, but it's almost unfair to say "Fire Fredi" after he makes a mistake that loses us a game (good decisions are more obscure and definitley go unnoticed). Yes I know we're all feeling distress after the sweep and I agree Fredi is no czar at managing, but I think it's imperative that we all move on and focus on the Philly series ,, the Wasington sweep is indelible and it's done, so lets forget that and move on and not put the blame on Fredi.

 

I knew after the 1st game of the series, Murphy's Law would kick in, and it did. That's just how baseball works. Like when we swept Washington in April with 3 straight 9th inning comebacks, you don't think the Nats had it in the back of their mind.

The funny thing is we only notice the mistakes that Fredi makes, but we never acknowledge Fredi when he makes good decisions.

 

 

I agree with the Fire Fredi thing is rather stupid/exagerative/ect

 

But, we're also talking about managing a major league baseball team. We're not talking about a 5 year old coloring inside the lines in kindergarten. Considering the position he's in, he really shouldn't deserve pats on the back for doing things right. Sucks for him? Yeah. But that's also what happens when you take on the responsibility of managing a MLB team. You're expected to make the right decision. Now what the "right" decision is is obviously subjective but I'd rather not get into all of that.

fredi needs to show the guys and the fans that he wants to win and while it me be obvious that he wants to win he needs to show it a little more .the other night when he got kicked out of the game i would have loved to see him go out and argue a little more not like he did from the top of the steps but out on the field like lou pinella and those other guys ....maybe that's what our team needs , a little more energy , a little more fight in them .....

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

 

yes i still would. The job of a coach is to put your team in the best position to win and that matchup he didnt do his job

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

 

 

You say that like if it's a good move, if Gload gets a hit. It's not. The splits say so, but I'm not going into further detail, since...well, I know that the "Fredi's a big league manager, so he must know more than you or any of us" posts will come up.

 

That was just another dumb move in Fredi's longlist of dumb moves this year.

 

Also...I'd love to hear some of the things you consider to be GOOD decisions made by Fredi Gonzalez this year. Aside from giving Brett Carroll a chance against LHP, I can't think of too many (if any). I'm interested...give me a list.

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

 

 

You say that like if it's a good move, if Gload gets a hit. It's not. The splits say so, but I'm not going into further detail, since...well, I know that the "Fredi's a big league manager, so he must know more than you or any of us" posts will come up.

 

That was just another dumb move in Fredi's longlist of dumb moves this year.

 

Also...I'd love to hear some of the things you consider to be GOOD decisions made by Fredi Gonzalez this year. Aside from giving Brett Carroll a chance against LHP, I can't think of too many (if any). I'm interested...give me a list.

 

Like I said, it's extremely hard to point out the good decisions that any manager makes. I could say that Fredi's decision to put in Ross Gload in the 9th when he hit that 2 run walk off homer to win the game was a good move, but then you would say obviously it's a smart move to bring in a lefty against a right handed pitcher. But what if Hermida was available to pinch hit (not sure if he was) or Coghlan, or Baker, and what if they struck out and we ended up losing the game, then Fredi made a bad decision ??? Point is that a manager can make any decision, but it's up to the player to execute. If that player executes, then the manager made a good decison, but if he doesn't, then to you it's automatically a bad decision ??

 

For example, hypothetically speaking, it's the bottom of the 9th, the Marlins are down by 3 runs and the bases are loaded against Mariano Rivera. Dan Uggla is available to pinch hit, who is a career 0 for 18 against him with 10ks. There are also 3 lefty's available who have hit Rivera pretty well, but Fredi decides to go with his gut and brings in Dan Uggla. He hits a walk off grand slam to win the game. Are you going to come on this message board and say Fredi was a f***ing idiot for bringing in Dan Uggla based on his numbers against him ???? I doubt it. Like I said, managers sometimes go with their gut and it either pays off or it doesn't. So in the end it's extremely hard to distinguish what constitutes a good move or a bad move.

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

 

 

You say that like if it's a good move, if Gload gets a hit. It's not. The splits say so, but I'm not going into further detail, since...well, I know that the "Fredi's a big league manager, so he must know more than you or any of us" posts will come up.

 

That was just another dumb move in Fredi's longlist of dumb moves this year.

 

Also...I'd love to hear some of the things you consider to be GOOD decisions made by Fredi Gonzalez this year. Aside from giving Brett Carroll a chance against LHP, I can't think of too many (if any). I'm interested...give me a list.

 

The game against the Nats when Hermida hit the tying HR in the 9th and then Fredi left Hermida in the game as opposed to going for a defensive replacement and then Hermida hit the winning HR in the 11th off a lefty pitcher.

 

Also, I think it was in the game versus the D-Backs where we scored 10 runs in the 8th. Meyer got himself in a hole where he had allowed the bases loaded and Fredi left him in the game and let him get out of trouble.

 

These are just two good decisions I can think of off the top of my head. They are not intended to prove that Fredi is a great manager. I don't really think he is all that great but I don't agree that he is as daft as some believe.

...For example, hypothetically speaking, it's the bottom of the 9th, the Marlins are down by 3 runs and the bases are loaded against Mariano Rivera. Dan Uggla is available to pinch hit, who is a career 0 for 18 against him with 10ks. There are also 3 lefty's available who have hit Rivera pretty well, but Fredi decides to go with his gut and brings in Dan Uggla. He hits a walk off grand slam to win the game. Are you going to come on this message board and say Fredi was a f***ing idiot for bringing in Dan Uggla based on his numbers against him ???? I doubt it. Like I said, managers sometimes go with their gut and it either pays off or it doesn't. So in the end it's extremely hard to distinguish what constitutes a good move or a bad move.

 

 

That's because it isn't his "gut", not the way it is for fans in the stands or at home watching TV. A gut decision by Fredi or any other manager in professional sports is his brain processing millions of disparate pieces of information, anecdotes, observations, recent and long term stats available to him, tendencies, outcomes of similar situations, the player's physical and mental health that day, what may or may not happen should the game go extra innings, etc. This simplistic "he just pulled it out of his a**" belief system you're commenting on and we see here everyday is the product of minds incapable of comprehending what's running through a manager's head that leads up to the decision being made.

 

It's no different than the un-informed belief that it was dumb for the Marlins to be looking for relief help (and hopefully they still are) because the kids in the peanut gallery had a much better handle of the strengths and weaknesses of the bullpen than the manager, pitching coach and front office. Most people here, and I'm not excluding myself from this, are playing checkers while the manager and his coaches, as well as the front office *are* playing tournament level chess.

 

This doesn't mean the fans have no right to question moves made, heck that's part of the national pastime. But at least give the guys running the team credit for making much better informed choices than we ever can. The real question shouldn't be how dumb the guy is after some strategy didn't work out, but rather what was the thinking, what was the back story that led up to that move? The Paul Bako walk thing was a good example of what I'd like to see and know more about, Fredi came out and explained why he did what he did and what the thinking was behind it, or at least enough of it for us to get a glimpse inside their thinking.

 

I'm still half aghast and half amused by a comment someone made the other day about how dumb Carlos Tosca is. I realize people are frustrated but to even suggest same is ridiculous and should be embarrassing for the person who made it in a fit of anger. I hate to use the expression but Tosca is a brilliant baseball mind, his years of experience and knowledge of the game dwarfs almost anyone else on the field any given day.

I completely agree with you. And I know there's a whole bunch of other things that factor in a managers decision, but a gut instinct is a part of it too.

 

I just laugh at the idiots that say they can manage better than Fredi and Tosca when they have no idea what actually goes on in the clubhouse, which a couple of people have pointed out. Fredi has been around the game for a very long time, and considering he was a former catcher, he has a lot more knowledge about baseball than any of us on this message board

So, Fredi gets tossed for riding the ump from the bench - that's OK.

 

What's not OK is that he put his tail between his legs and scurried to the clubhouse.

 

It was the perfect opportunity to go out on the field and unload on the ump - all the greats do/did it - Piniella, Cox, Martin, Weaver, et al.

 

That's just one way to show your team that you actually give a s--t - do something outrageous that may serve to inspire! Kick some dirt, dammit.

jesus christ, the hate on this board is ridiculous

The funny thing is we only notice the mistakes that Fredi makes, but we never acknowledge Fredi when he makes good decisions. Obviously any mistake a manager makes is more blatant than a non mistake, but it's almost unfair to say "Fire Fredi" after he makes a mistake that loses us a game (good decisions are more obscure and definitley go unnoticed). Yes I know we're all feeling distress after the sweep and I agree Fredi is no czar at managing, but I think it's imperative that we all move on and focus on the Philly series ,, the Wasington sweep is indelible and it's done, so lets forget that and move on and not put the blame on Fredi.

 

I knew after the 1st game of the series, Murphy's Law would kick in, and it did. That's just how baseball works. Like when we swept Washington in April with 3 straight 9th inning comebacks, you don't think the Nats had it in the back of their mind.

 

 

 

Amen

So, Fredi gets tossed for riding the ump from the bench - that's OK.

 

What's not OK is that he put his tail between his legs and scurried to the clubhouse.

 

It was the perfect opportunity to go out on the field and unload on the ump - all the greats do/did it - Piniella, Cox, Martin, Weaver, et al.

 

That's just one way to show your team that you actually give a s--t - do something outrageous that may serve to inspire! Kick some dirt, dammit.

 

This is priceless....first, fans complained that Fredi didn't argue enough and defend his players....he does, and gets tossed, and now the complaint is he didn't go on the field and make a fool of himself enough. The guy can't win.

ok but why pinch hit gload against the lefty with helms on the bench?

 

 

I have no idea why he chose Gload over Helms there... I am not Freddi and I was not there when the decision was made so I really have no clue. I am sure Freddi did not just shoot darts at a dartboard and end up picking Gload. We can play the second guess game on every decision that does not work out. You do not bring that up if Gload gets a hit. But I do not want this to turn into an argument about specific decisions that have been made this year. Has he made some BAD decisions this season? Yes. Do most managers make mistakes during the course of a season? Yes.

 

 

You say that like if it's a good move, if Gload gets a hit. It's not. The splits say so, but I'm not going into further detail, since...well, I know that the "Fredi's a big league manager, so he must know more than you or any of us" posts will come up.

 

That was just another dumb move in Fredi's longlist of dumb moves this year.

 

Also...I'd love to hear some of the things you consider to be GOOD decisions made by Fredi Gonzalez this year. Aside from giving Brett Carroll a chance against LHP, I can't think of too many (if any). I'm interested...give me a list.

 

The game against the Nats when Hermida hit the tying HR in the 9th and then Fredi left Hermida in the game as opposed to going for a defensive replacement and then Hermida hit the winning HR in the 11th off a lefty pitcher.

 

Also, I think it was in the game versus the D-Backs where we scored 10 runs in the 8th. Meyer got himself in a hole where he had allowed the bases loaded and Fredi left him in the game and let him get out of trouble.

 

These are just two good decisions I can think of off the top of my head. They are not intended to prove that Fredi is a great manager. I don't really think he is all that great but I don't agree that he is as daft as some believe.

 

 

What was so brilliant about that move, aside from the fact that it worked out?

Also, the Meyer outing? Really? You're giving him credit for trusting one of his better relievers...WITH A 7 RUN LEAD? I mean...that was just brilliant.

 

If we were to make lists of Fredi's good & bad moves this year...the list on the bad would have a lot more things on it. And again...I could list them, but that would just be a waste of time, wouldn't it? After all, I "don't know what's going on in the clubhouse!"

So, Fredi gets tossed for riding the ump from the bench - that's OK.

 

What's not OK is that he put his tail between his legs and scurried to the clubhouse.

 

It was the perfect opportunity to go out on the field and unload on the ump - all the greats do/did it - Piniella, Cox, Martin, Weaver, et al.

 

That's just one way to show your team that you actually give a s--t - do something outrageous that may serve to inspire! Kick some dirt, dammit.

 

 

Unload the ump? This is PROFESSIONAL Baseball. You may get thrown out by arguing something, and that's fine - it's even needed at times in the game. Doing crap like Piniella does, on the other hand, is unacceptable. Half the time, I don't think he does it to fire up his team; he's just genuinely an asshole with no self-control. We've seen in the last Homestand how he can be overly sensitive about situations (when he criticized the goat, and basically insulted our FO) and how he can easily blow a fuse.

 

Fredi's lack of ferocity when dealing with bad calls is obvious, but he shouldn't go to the levels that some others do. I think Bobby Cox is the best at doing it, and Fredi probably learned a trick or two from him, but throwing bases around and kicking sh*t like a baby a la Lou Piniella? Hell no.

 

Another thing I've always wondered. Fredi came from an organization with a manager notorious for being tossed in Bobby Cox, but why is it that he doesn't like getting tossed? If it's such a sure-fire way to kickstart the team, I'm sure he'd do it more often. There has to be more to it than that. Alright, I'll give you that he needs to get tossed a bit more but it seems that every time a call is blown, everyone on here wants him to pull out a gun, kill 3 umpires then light the dugout on fire.