September 6, 200917 yr Benitez was great and obviously lights out but Todd Jones: 2.10 ERA, 1.027 WHIP, 40/45 in save ops, 1.7 BB/9, 7.6 K/9, and he didn't even become the closer until May.
September 6, 200917 yr Not too many times b/c, fortunately, the Marlins front office understands how to spend their money wisely/understands that the role is very overrated.
September 6, 200917 yr Armando Benitez. EDIT: Todd Jones close 2nd. Well, it wasn't who's the most lights out ever (Brian Harvey deserves recognition there) but who was the last one. Todd Jones was obviously lights out, so he'd have been the last guy.
September 6, 200917 yr Todd Jones was lights out for most of the season, but I can specifically remember one September game where that entire 2005 season crumbled all in an instant. We were playing the Phillies and were literally on our last legs- we were so banged up that Josh Wilson and Robert Andino were our starting middle infielders, and Andino got his first hit that game. Despite all of the adversity, we were still in the race and we managed to get to the ninth inning with a 2-0 behind yet another brilliant pitching performance by Willis. But the Phillies got something going in the ninth and Jones was called in to stamp out a rally with two runners on and no outs, IIRC. I remember most of it pretty vividly because I was there, which is a rarity because I'm not a south Florida resident and I'm not well-endowed financially. I was right in front of the bullpen watching Jones nervously toss his warm-ups with the fans saying "We need you Todd". And first play in, they bunt it right in front of him, only Jones does what the rest of this team did throughout the inning- he choked. He grabbed the ball and chucked it up the first base line, allowing at least one run and maybe two on that play alone. By the time the inning was done, we had committed something like 4 errors and even other, non-error defensive miscues that cost us outs, and the Phillies put up ten against us in the ninth inning of an absolutely crucial game. It was the most awful thing I ever could have imagined. To me, it wasn't just a season ending right before my eyes- I thought it was baseball in south Florida that was going to be dead altogether. The team didn't leave and we all know a stadium is on the way, but we did have a firesale afterwards. And I'm sure Loria watching his well-payed team choke in such a tremendous way in this game had something to do with it. Jones did a great job that year and this one game didn't change that. But still, my most incredibly vivid Marlins memory has to do directly with a Jones blown save in a crucial situation, and I have a hard time thinking "lights out". My vote goes to Benitez.
September 6, 200917 yr Willis got tagged with the loss actually. McKeon left him out there in the 9th with a 2-0 lead, he stunk, and the bullpen and defense did stink it up after that, as well. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250917128
September 6, 200917 yr Todd Jones was lights out for most of the season, but I can specifically remember one September game where that entire 2005 season crumbled all in an instant. We were playing the Phillies and were literally on our last legs- we were so banged up that Josh Wilson and Robert Andino were our starting middle infielders, and Andino got his first hit that game. Despite all of the adversity, we were still in the race and we managed to get to the ninth inning with a 2-0 behind yet another brilliant pitching performance by Willis. But the Phillies got something going in the ninth and Jones was called in to stamp out a rally with two runners on and no outs, IIRC. I remember most of it pretty vividly because I was there, which is a rarity because I'm not a south Florida resident and I'm not well-endowed financially. I was right in front of the bullpen watching Jones nervously toss his warm-ups with the fans saying "We need you Todd". And first play in, they bunt it right in front of him, only Jones does what the rest of this team did throughout the inning- he choked. He grabbed the ball and chucked it up the first base line, allowing at least one run and maybe two on that play alone. By the time the inning was done, we had committed something like 4 errors and even other, non-error defensive miscues that cost us outs, and the Phillies put up ten against us in the ninth inning of an absolutely crucial game. It was the most awful thing I ever could have imagined. To me, it wasn't just a season ending right before my eyes- I thought it was baseball in south Florida that was going to be dead altogether. The team didn't leave and we all know a stadium is on the way, but we did have a firesale afterwards. And I'm sure Loria watching his well-payed team choke in such a tremendous way in this game had something to do with it. Jones did a great job that year and this one game didn't change that. But still, my most incredibly vivid Marlins memory has to do directly with a Jones blown save in a crucial situation, and I have a hard time thinking "lights out". My vote goes to Benitez. While that sucked hard I'm not going to call him not lights out because of one game. Also... I'm not well-endowed
September 6, 200917 yr Not too many times b/c, fortunately, the Marlins front office understands how to spend their money wisely/understands that the role is very overrated. it really isnt. there is a reason why there are so few lights out closers. you have to have a specific type of mindset to be a closer. it is just important and just the same as any other inning, but they are the hardest 3 outs to get.
September 6, 200917 yr Not too many times b/c, fortunately, the Marlins front office understands how to spend their money wisely/understands that the role is very overrated. it really isnt. there is a reason why there are so few lights out closers. you have to have a specific type of mindset to be a closer. it is just important and just the same as any other inning, but they are the hardest 3 outs to get. You keep thinking that.
September 6, 200917 yr Armando Benitez. EDIT: Todd Jones close 2nd. Well, it wasn't who's the most lights out ever (Brian Harvey deserves recognition there) but who was the last one. Todd Jones was obviously lights out, so he'd have been the last guy. Yeah, but like you said he didn't become closer until May. So I really dont consider him a lights out closer. Took him time to get that position. Benitez, if I'm not mistaken, lead the league in saves in 04.
September 6, 200917 yr Whaaaa??? How does it hurt his status as a "light-out closer" just because FO didn't realize it for ONE month. Stubbornness is one thing; that "differentiation" is silly.
September 6, 200917 yr Armando Benitez. EDIT: Todd Jones close 2nd. Well, it wasn't who's the most lights out ever (Brian Harvey deserves recognition there) but who was the last one. Todd Jones was obviously lights out, so he'd have been the last guy. Yeah, but like you said he didn't become closer until May. So I really dont consider him a lights out closer. Took him time to get that position. Benitez, if I'm not mistaken, lead the league in saves in 04. That's not a strong argument at all. Not to mention that Jones was 4th in saves despite not getting the call for a month. If he had gotten all the save opportunities that year, assuming the same SV%, he would have had 54 saves, lead the league in saves, and hold the team record for saves in a season.
September 7, 200917 yr Todd Jones was lights out for most of the season, but I can specifically remember one September game where that entire 2005 season crumbled all in an instant. We were playing the Phillies and were literally on our last legs- we were so banged up that Josh Wilson and Robert Andino were our starting middle infielders, and Andino got his first hit that game. Despite all of the adversity, we were still in the race and we managed to get to the ninth inning with a 2-0 behind yet another brilliant pitching performance by Willis. But the Phillies got something going in the ninth and Jones was called in to stamp out a rally with two runners on and no outs, IIRC. I remember most of it pretty vividly because I was there, which is a rarity because I'm not a south Florida resident and I'm not well-endowed financially. I was right in front of the bullpen watching Jones nervously toss his warm-ups with the fans saying "We need you Todd". And first play in, they bunt it right in front of him, only Jones does what the rest of this team did throughout the inning- he choked. He grabbed the ball and chucked it up the first base line, allowing at least one run and maybe two on that play alone. By the time the inning was done, we had committed something like 4 errors and even other, non-error defensive miscues that cost us outs, and the Phillies put up ten against us in the ninth inning of an absolutely crucial game. It was the most awful thing I ever could have imagined. To me, it wasn't just a season ending right before my eyes- I thought it was baseball in south Florida that was going to be dead altogether. The team didn't leave and we all know a stadium is on the way, but we did have a firesale afterwards. And I'm sure Loria watching his well-payed team choke in such a tremendous way in this game had something to do with it. Jones did a great job that year and this one game didn't change that. But still, my most incredibly vivid Marlins memory has to do directly with a Jones blown save in a crucial situation, and I have a hard time thinking "lights out". My vote goes to Benitez. While that sucked hard I'm not going to call him not lights out because of one game. Also... I'm not well-endowed I was just sharing a painful memory with some people who could understand. It's hard to explain to people who don't watch sports or maybe even just your favorite team, how much it can hurt to watch your team melt down. I'll carry that memory with me a long time, especially since I've only gotten to Miami twice since then and both times we've lost. Once we get a dome stadium, it will be more viable for cash-strapped people like me to come down and support the team without the worry of a rain out.
September 7, 200917 yr Willis got tagged with the loss actually. McKeon left him out there in the 9th with a 2-0 lead, he stunk, and the bullpen and defense did stink it up after that, as well. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250917128 Thanks for posting that. It's amazing to read all the errors we made in that one inning, yet knowing that 'Bell single to shallow center" was actually a play that either the middle infilder or center fielder should have made, but none did. There was also a big miscue by Encarnacion in right. The only positive I took from that game was seeing Josh Willingham at the plate in the ninth and thinking "this guy looks like a player".
September 7, 200917 yr Armando Benitez. EDIT: Todd Jones close 2nd. Well, it wasn't who's the most lights out ever (Brian Harvey deserves recognition there) but who was the last one. Todd Jones was obviously lights out, so he'd have been the last guy. Yeah, but like you said he didn't become closer until May. So I really dont consider him a lights out closer. Took him time to get that position. Benitez, if I'm not mistaken, lead the league in saves in 04. That's not a strong argument at all. Not to mention that Jones was 4th in saves despite not getting the call for a month. If he had gotten all the save opportunities that year, assuming the same SV%, he would have had 54 saves, lead the league in saves, and hold the team record for saves in a season. Okay, define lights out? Armando Benitez ERA was 1.29, over .80 lower than that of Todd Jones. Almost a full run. He was voted as an all-star, Todd Jones was not. He lead the league in saves. Hitters could accomplish much more off Todd Jones than Armando Benitez. He allowed nearly double the runs, opponents batted .152 against Benitez, Jones? .230 Almost .100 higher. Todd Jones blew 1 more save than Benitez, while Benitez had 7 more save opportunities. Am I claiming that Todd Jones did not have a good year? No. But the fact that it took him a month to be the established closer on the team does not make him stand out. Armando Benitez was established. Todd Jones was not "lights out" like Armando Benitez was. But he was close, and an honorable mention, a close second. EDIT: Oh look, seems like people are saying the same thing as me. But instead some of you want to just call me stubborn and argue with me. Go debate with them then.
September 7, 200917 yr Todd Jones was lights out for most of the season, but I can specifically remember one September game where that entire 2005 season crumbled all in an instant. We were playing the Phillies and were literally on our last legs- we were so banged up that Josh Wilson and Robert Andino were our starting middle infielders, and Andino got his first hit that game. Despite all of the adversity, we were still in the race and we managed to get to the ninth inning with a 2-0 behind yet another brilliant pitching performance by Willis. But the Phillies got something going in the ninth and Jones was called in to stamp out a rally with two runners on and no outs, IIRC. I remember most of it pretty vividly because I was there, which is a rarity because I'm not a south Florida resident and I'm not well-endowed financially. I was right in front of the bullpen watching Jones nervously toss his warm-ups with the fans saying "We need you Todd". And first play in, they bunt it right in front of him, only Jones does what the rest of this team did throughout the inning- he choked. He grabbed the ball and chucked it up the first base line, allowing at least one run and maybe two on that play alone. By the time the inning was done, we had committed something like 4 errors and even other, non-error defensive miscues that cost us outs, and the Phillies put up ten against us in the ninth inning of an absolutely crucial game. It was the most awful thing I ever could have imagined. To me, it wasn't just a season ending right before my eyes- I thought it was baseball in south Florida that was going to be dead altogether. The team didn't leave and we all know a stadium is on the way, but we did have a firesale afterwards. And I'm sure Loria watching his well-payed team choke in such a tremendous way in this game had something to do with it. Jones did a great job that year and this one game didn't change that. But still, my most incredibly vivid Marlins memory has to do directly with a Jones blown save in a crucial situation, and I have a hard time thinking "lights out". My vote goes to Benitez. While that sucked hard I'm not going to call him not lights out because of one game. Also... I'm not well-endowed I was just sharing a painful memory with some people who could understand. It's hard to explain to people who don't watch sports or maybe even just your favorite team, how much it can hurt to watch your team melt down. I'll carry that memory with me a long time, especially since I've only gotten to Miami twice since then and both times we've lost. Once we get a dome stadium, it will be more viable for cash-strapped people like me to come down and support the team without the worry of a rain out. Trust me, I understand, I'm just saying.
September 7, 200917 yr Armando Benitez. EDIT: Todd Jones close 2nd. Well, it wasn't who's the most lights out ever (Brian Harvey deserves recognition there) but who was the last one. Todd Jones was obviously lights out, so he'd have been the last guy. Yeah, but like you said he didn't become closer until May. So I really dont consider him a lights out closer. Took him time to get that position. Benitez, if I'm not mistaken, lead the league in saves in 04. That's not a strong argument at all. Not to mention that Jones was 4th in saves despite not getting the call for a month. If he had gotten all the save opportunities that year, assuming the same SV%, he would have had 54 saves, lead the league in saves, and hold the team record for saves in a season. Okay, define lights out? Armando Benitez ERA was 1.29, over .80 lower than that of Todd Jones. Almost a full run. He was voted as an all-star, Todd Jones was not. He lead the league in saves. Hitters could accomplish much more off Todd Jones than Armando Benitez. He allowed nearly double the runs, opponents batted .152 against Benitez, Jones? .230 Almost .100 higher. Todd Jones blew 1 more save than Benitez, while Benitez had 7 more save opportunities. Am I claiming that Todd Jones did not have a good year? No. But the fact that it took him a month to be the established closer on the team does not make him stand out. Armando Benitez was established. Todd Jones was not "lights out" like Armando Benitez was. But he was close, and an honorable mention, a close second. EDIT: Oh look, seems like people are saying the same thing as me. But instead some of you want to just call me stubborn and argue with me. Go debate with them then. When did I claim that Jones had a better year than Benitez? The question was "when was the last time?" not "who was the best?". Benitez was better than him (as was Brian Harvey), but that's not the question. That's like if someone asked "who was the last first ballot HOFer" and I started going on how Babe Ruth was but Rickey Henderson a close second. Also, you're basically saying that no first year closer can be lights out, which is wrong. Being "established" has absolutely nothing to do with current production.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.