October 4, 200916 yr Seriously, Loria and Co. are only making our organization look like a bigger joke. Except it isn't "our" organization, it's their organization.
October 4, 200916 yr One possible thing I think is that maybe the Bonerface experiment is more Fredi's making than we thought.
October 4, 200916 yr One possible thing I think is that maybe the Bonerface experiment is more Fredi's making than we thought. Bonifacio should have been in the position to be sent down just like Maybin and Nolasco, but he wasn't. That's not up to Fredi, that's up to the FO. Not just that but the way Beinfest talked about Boni all year (even after we got NJ) made it seem like it was his.
October 4, 200916 yr One possible thing I think is that maybe the Bonerface experiment is more Fredi's making than we thought. BillySue Bob, his name is Bonifacio.
October 4, 200916 yr One possible thing I think is that maybe the Bonerface experiment is more Fredi's making than we thought. BillySue Bob, his name is Bonifacio. No way. Are you sure? I checked the roster, and I'm pretty sure it said "Emilio Bonerface". Check your fact, Marlinsue.
October 4, 200916 yr A team with the Marlins' turnover rate of trading developed talent for prospects should have a much better farm system. We are pretty consistently ranked in the top 5 of all farm systems. I'm not sure what more he can do. Didn't Baseball America rank the Marlins #14 for 2008? (I haven't seen the 2009 rankings). I'm not denying what you are saying but I don't personally ever recall seeing the Marlins ranked that high consistently. Maybe at the beginning of that season. Remember we graduated a starting catcher and a starting pitcher to the big leagues that year. I'm fairly certain BA had us at 2 at the beginning of this season, and I can't imagine that's gone down this season.
October 4, 200916 yr :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying :crying
October 4, 200916 yr I'm honestly surprised to hear there is a good chance Fredi will be fired. I thought that is what Loria and Co wanted, a "Yes Man", I guess 87 wins with a team with the lowest payroll in baseball isn't good enough. Although nobody here is a huge Fredi fan, I think it is important to build some stability in the managerial position. You can't expect to win when you change managers every other year. I'd like to see Fredi stay, he's improved (record-wise) every season he's been manager, l don't see why he should be fired at this moment. As for the other members of the staff, that's a different story...
October 4, 200916 yr I'm honestly surprised to hear there is a good chance Fredi will be fired. I thought that is what Loria and Co wanted, a "Yes Man", I guess 87 wins with a team with the lowest payroll in baseball isn't good enough... I've been thinking this all afternoon.
October 4, 200916 yr You can't expect to win when you change managers every other year. Why? You honestly think that the players are going to take the team seriously when you cannot show any stability within the coaching position. Players won't want to stay with the team when you change managers every other season. You need to show some sort of stability if you want to succeed each year.
October 4, 200916 yr You can't expect to win when you change managers every other year. Why? You honestly think that the players are going to take the team seriously when you cannot show any stability within the coaching position. Players won't want to stay with the team when you change managers every other season. You need to show some sort of stability if you want to succeed each year. Unless the firing happens midseason, right?
October 4, 200916 yr The Marlins got 87 wins on a $37 million payroll. 87 wins! We should always expect to make the playoffs, but you have to be realistic about your chances given the team you field. A legitimate lights out closer and just one extra consistent and established starting pitcher would have given us the playoffs. The Marlins's FO chose not to go after anyone in free agency or trade for more pieces. The fact is, this team outperformed expectations. Firing Fredi would be ridiculous. Fredi would find a job as a manager very quickly if he were to get fired, so no worries.
October 4, 200916 yr You can't expect to win when you change managers every other year. Why? You honestly think that the players are going to take the team seriously when you cannot show any stability within the coaching position. Players won't want to stay with the team when you change managers every other season. You need to show some sort of stability if you want to succeed each year. Dude, this isn't football. Its not like the new manager is going to come in and change "schemes". They are going to come in and hopefully make better decisions, that's all.
October 4, 200916 yr You can't expect to win when you change managers every other year. Why? You honestly think that the players are going to take the team seriously when you cannot show any stability within the coaching position. Players won't want to stay with the team when you change managers every other season. You need to show some sort of stability if you want to succeed each year. Unless the firing happens midseason, right? Well there always certain cases where the norm doesn't apply. Sometimes change is needed, but you can't keep hiring and firing guys like the Marlins have done for years. Lets just say there is a reason we only had 2 winning seasons from 93-03, and why we haven't been to the playoffs since that World Series year.
October 4, 200916 yr You honestly think that the players are going to take the team seriously when you cannot show any stability within the coaching position. Players won't want to stay with the team when you change managers every other season. You need to show some sort of stability if you want to succeed each year. Again, why? You think Hanley's not going to play well because he lost a manager he doesn't seem to care about anyways? I honestly don't see why players won't take the team seriously. I don't even know what that means. Really? You're a grown man being paid to play baseball and you're going to play bad because your team has changed management?
October 4, 200916 yr From my perspective, the front office (Beinfest in particular) is far more guilty of inhibiting the team's playoff chances than Gonzalez is. When Bonifacio was starting almost every game for 100 days did Loria think the Marlins were maximizing their potential? Did Loria/Beinfest think that the Lindstrom/Nunez pair was an acceptable closer combination? Did Loria address the obvious lack of starting pitching and trade for an additional starter before the deadline? Loria got the team he deserved and he has no right to be making Fredi Gonzalez the scapegoat. Agree 100% with this. The FO, from what I could tell, never even considered getting a 3rd baseman before the deadline. They looked into getting a closer, but they focused primarily on trying to make a deal for Heath Bell, who the Padres did not want to move because he doesn't make any real money for some time. So they asked for ridiculous things like Stanton, and the Marlins walked away. But not until the deadline was here. I do remember them talking to Pittsburgh about a Hermida for Matt Capps swap, but of course the Pirates wisely said no. I'm also not sure Capps would have been the answer, either. I don't recall them seriously discussing picking up another veteran starter. They certainly didn't make any effort to get one before the season started, even though it was at least somewhat clear that we could have really used one veteran to solidify the rotation. I don't know if we ever seriously had any chance at Carl Pavano, but he was available. While I would not at all be sad if Fredi left, as I think he's a horrible field manager, it would make us look pretty stupid to fire him now. I personally blame the FO for first giving up Willingham for basically nothing, and then letting Bonifacio continue to struggle at what is usually a key position on an MLB team. It's especially odd considering Cameron Maybin was sent down to the minors after about 27 games or so, because he just couldn't hack it. Bonifacio had the same problem, but he got to stay. I think some of this was the ego of the decision makers, who did not want to admit that they failed with the Willingham trade, or with making Bonifacio a centerpiece of it. For a long period he was the worst starting player on any MLB team, offensively. It's not like his defense was great, either. If this were a civil case, I would give the FO 80% of the responsibility, and Fredi about 20% because of his bullpen mismanagement and poor game decision-making skills. A few of his bad choices cost us wins. But the FO builds the team, and they made far worse decisions with the personnel that probably cost us a playoff spot more than Fredi's poor decisions.
October 4, 200916 yr '01 = 9 '02 = 10 '03 = 8 '04 = 14 '05 = 14 '06 = 3 '07 = ??? '08 = 14 '09 = 2 What is this supposed to be?
October 4, 200916 yr A team with the Marlins' turnover rate of trading developed talent for prospects should have a much better farm system. We are pretty consistently ranked in the top 5 of all farm systems. I'm not sure what more he can do. Didn't Baseball America rank the Marlins #14 for 2008? (I haven't seen the 2009 rankings). I'm not denying what you are saying but I don't personally ever recall seeing the Marlins ranked that high consistently. ^^^
October 4, 200916 yr Lets just say there is a reason we only had 2 winning seasons from 93-03, and why we haven't been to the playoffs since that World Series year. Because we were an expansion team and then bought a WS and sold everyone off and essentially became an expansion team again.
October 4, 200916 yr My point is you can't expect to overhaul an entire roster, change the manager and a good amount of the coaches, every year and expect to be in the playoffs all of these years. It's just a consistancy issue. So you think changing managers right now solves our issue. You think with a new manager we will suddenly become a playoff team?
October 4, 200916 yr Those are the BA rankings, I think. That is about what I expected. What I don't understand is why the '07 rankings on their website is for subscribers only lol I'm curious to know where we'd rank there. I'd assume around middle of the pack
October 4, 200916 yr Those are the BA rankings, I think. That is about what I expected. Right. I guess when I said "consistently" i meant most people consider us to have a top 5 system right now. We are consistently ranked in the top 5. I also feel like our rankings in 06-08 are skewed by having so many graduations into the majors. It's not like we haven't developed players in this time period.
October 4, 200916 yr My point is you can't expect to overhaul an entire roster, change the manager and a good amount of the coaches, every year and expect to be in the playoffs all of these years. It's just a consistancy issue. So you think changing managers right now solves our issue. You think with a new manager we will suddenly become a playoff team? I don't think it changes anything at all, good or bad. But I do think that Fredi is gone as soon as the Braves offer him the managing job there, so why not get rid of him before he gets rid of us.
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