Those are the BA rankings, I think.

 

That is about what I expected.

 

 

Right.

 

I guess when I said "consistently" i meant most people consider us to have a top 5 system right now. We are consistently ranked in the top 5.

 

I also feel like our rankings in 06-08 are skewed by having so many graduations into the majors. It's not like we haven't developed players in this time period.

 

I doubt we are still a top 5 system

 

 

Our system took a big hit this year with the graduation of Maybin and Skipworth stinking up the joint, and none of our sleeper pitchers broke out, none of our sleeper hitters broke out. Our system right now is basically just Stanton, Dominguez, and Morrison, and a bunch of either sleepers/fillers/09 draft picks (aka no one knows what they are yet).

I forgot to add that the FO is fudging the numbers somewhat. They said that, 'oh, we increased the payroll by x amount', except that 99% of that number goes to giving existing players raises. In the offseason we only added guys like Nunez, Gload, Bonifacio, and Calero. None of those guys was given any real money, with Gload being the most expensive.

Do the 2008 rankings take into account the Willis/Cabrera trade (Miller, Maybin, etc.)? I think they usually publish these in January or sometime in the winter.

 

 

Maybin yes. Miller no (wasn't a rookie when we traded for him)

BA had Maybin as our #1 prospect going into 2008. This year it was Maybin again. I'm sure that the 2010 rankings that come out later this year will have Stanton #1 and Morrison #2. I think there's a good chance that Skipworth falls out of the top 10, or at least to the 8-10 range.

Those are the BA rankings, I think.

 

That is about what I expected.

 

 

Right.

 

I guess when I said "consistently" i meant most people consider us to have a top 5 system right now. We are consistently ranked in the top 5.

 

I also feel like our rankings in 06-08 are skewed by having so many graduations into the majors. It's not like we haven't developed players in this time period.

 

I doubt we are still a top 5 system

 

 

Our system took a big hit this year with the graduation of Maybin and Skipworth stinking up the joint, and none of our sleeper pitchers broke out, none of our sleeper hitters broke out. Our system right now is basically just Stanton, Dominguez, and Morrison, and a bunch of either sleepers/fillers/09 draft picks (aka no one knows what they are yet).

And I believe Dominguez had a very lukewarm 2009 in Jupiter.

Yeah, his line was:

 

.262/.333/.420 with 11 HRs and 53 RBIs

Those are the BA rankings, I think.

 

That is about what I expected.

 

 

Right.

 

I guess when I said "consistently" i meant most people consider us to have a top 5 system right now. We are consistently ranked in the top 5.

 

I also feel like our rankings in 06-08 are skewed by having so many graduations into the majors. It's not like we haven't developed players in this time period.

 

I doubt we are still a top 5 system

 

 

Our system took a big hit this year with the graduation of Maybin and Skipworth stinking up the joint, and none of our sleeper pitchers broke out, none of our sleeper hitters broke out. Our system right now is basically just Stanton, Dominguez, and Morrison, and a bunch of either sleepers/fillers/09 draft picks (aka no one knows what they are yet).

And I believe Dominguez had a very lukewarm 2009 in Jupiter.

 

The average OPS in the FSL is .684. He had the 15th best OPS in the league. Ontop of which he played in a pitchers park in a pitchers league. His park adjusted OPS is .789.

 

He's only 19, this isn't a 23 year old Gaby situation, and for a 19 year old that pretty damn good. I mean, it's certainly not Logan or Stanton level, but he's not expected to be that. He's such a highly rated spec because of his glove. His offense is only expected to be average to slightly above average, with his glove then making him an above average player. And with what he did in Jup, he's basically in line to do that.

not a big valentine fan, personally I think we just need to get pitchers that last more then 4 innings consistently and a closer. Also never let bonerface near the field again. In fact give him to the phillies wit ha requirement he start for them. That would make my day.

I don't really think changing the manager is the primary issue at this point.

 

From my perspective it has been the front office that has been inhibiting the success of the Marlins as of late. It wasn't Gonzalez who got nothing in return for Josh Willingham and made the decision to start Bonifacio everyday. It's not Gonzalez's fault that Volstad, West, and Miller severely underperformed this season and the Marlins had no fallbacks. It's not Gonzalez's fault that the front office doesn't buy out arbitration for certain players.

 

I am becoming increasingly dissatisfied with Loria, Beinfest, Hill, et al even ignoring the payroll issues.

 

 

Why the heck would you blame Beinfest? Show me another GM who could put together a team with 80+ wins and a payroll lower than 40 million. Such a person does not exist.

 

Nobody has to live with a payroll below 40 million, so we don't know who could or not. And Billy Beane did a nice job with a low payroll for a while. And I bet Epstein and Andrew Friedman would have a pretty good shot. I don't blame Beinfest though. The payroll issues fall on Loria. Who the heck thought the Marlins needed another starter before this season? Many "experts" were predicting the Marlins to have a top 5 rotation in all of MLB. Maybe they could've taken some more shots at stockpiling veterans in AAA for MiLB contracts - I'm not sure if any of those guys ended up having positive impacts this year, but maybe they might have. Still, I can't fault him much for that, and he certainly didn't have money to throw around.

The guy dishes out only $37 million in payroll and he's "dissatisfied"!?!?!? What the hell does he expect?

 

Also, if this report is accurate, I think it is obvious that Loria never wanted Gonzalez to be manager and only agreed to do so because the baseball guys told him it was the way to go. Again, I think Loria should let the baseball guys do their jobs.

 

 

Really, who cares how much he spent on payroll. I'm happy he's not satisfyed missing the playoffs.

 

Do you really want an owner who doesn't care about the playoffs?

 

He may be cheap, but he's better then PIT, KC, WAS and other teams who shell out the big bucks to just "Show" were trying.

 

He spends money wisely. You would do the same.

I want him to be dissatisfied when he puts they miss the playoffs and he puts the team in the best position to win. We have holes that could be filled with a little more money and he didn't do it.

 

A little more money and a bit more prospects. and still no guarentee that it would pan out. I dont think there are any closers worth the prospects mentioned to get them. Hoffman was really the only closer on the market, as well as the 7mm a year kerry wood.

I don't care about the closer, I care about not having a 3B for 4 months. If we had had an average 3B we'd be in the playoffs. And now we're going to lose Uggla too and put Boni right back in the lineup? He's weakening our team for monetary reasons and then getting mad when we don't make the playoffs! It's stupidity.

 

Yeah, this is what's absurd. If you expect a $37 million team to make the playoffs, then why not dish out a few more bucks and make the team a lock? And you then you fire the manager when the team grossly overperformed its [Pythagorean] expected win total [based on runs scored and runs allowed]??!?!??!?

I can't figure out if this is a hoax, blind hatred toward baseball generally or complete stupidity at CBS 4 Miami.

 

You decide:

 

 

news sports

Fredi Get Ready

Jeffrey Loria reportedly will fire Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez this week

By CARLOS MILLER

Updated 5:18 PM EDT, Sun, Oct 4, 2009

 

 

Florida Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria is reportedly going to fire manager Fredi Gonzalez for not making the playoffs this year.

 

It wouldn’t be surprising considering Loria fired the team’s last manager after making the playoffs – not to mention being named Manager of the Year that year.

 

Despite having the lowest payroll in the major leagues this year, the Marlins will finish the season in second place with the third-best record in franchise history, according to The Miami Herald.

 

But Loria expected more, so he will meet this week with front office executives to make a final decision.

 

ESPN is reporting that former major league player and manager Bobby Valentine has been in contact with the Marlins about a possible job within the organization, possibly as manager.

 

Loria fired manager Joe Giraldi in 2006 after he guided the team to a surprising wild-card playoff berth, even though they had the lowest payroll in the major leagues that year.

 

Loria was upset because Giraldi told him to stop heckling an umpire from his seat behind home plate during a game in August.

Giraldi now manages the New York Yankees.

 

First Published: Oct 4, 2009 4:01 PM EDT

 

http://www.nbcmiami....r-63482777.html

 

Huh?

 

 

 

at this garbage.

Not saying it's not true, but well there are a lot of things in the article that are...wrong.

The article was fixed now. We no longer made the playoffs in 2006.

My point is you can't expect to overhaul an entire roster, change the manager and a good amount of the coaches, every year and expect to be in the playoffs all of these years. It's just a consistancy issue.

 

So you think changing managers right now solves our issue. You think with a new manager we will suddenly become a playoff team?

 

 

 

The answer to this is no. The second answer to this is that they won't become worse, either.

Yeah my favorite is Loria being extremely dissatisfied that they didn't make the playoffs with this payroll.

 

Good stuff.

Yeah my favorite is Loria being extremely dissatisfied that they didn't make the playoffs with this payroll.

 

Good stuff.

 

Plus, it sounds to me like they believed that they turned a profit. So it's not like he's putting every cent into the club that he could.

Yeah my favorite is Loria being extremely dissatisfied that they didn't make the playoffs with this payroll.

 

Good stuff.

 

Plus, it sounds to me like they believed that they turned a profit. So it's not like he's putting every cent into the club that he could.

It's a business, he should be allowed to turn a profit. But he shouldn't be saying things like he's disappointed that we didn't outplay teams that are put together better.

if you read frisaro's most recent piece

 

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091001&content_id=7261530&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

 

and think of it as a commentary in Pravda before the USSR fell, one gets the idea that Wiley will be gone and Fredi will stay. frisaro is not necessarily a mouthpiece for the Fish but his closeness to what's going on in the inner sanctum is what they call on wall street a "leading indicator".

 

just a thought mid-afternoon.

That wouldn't surprise me. If Wiley goes you have to hope that the Marlins take a look at Leo Mazzone.

That wouldn't surprise me. If Wiley goes you have to hope that the Marlins take a look at Leo Mazzone.

 

 

I dont kno. I think anyone could look good with Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine. Im sure he had something to do with their success but very little.

 

If we were to get Valentine Id be really interested to see how hed handle Hanley and his little hissy fits he seems to have once or twice a year.

so much really has to do with bobby cox in atlanta which is what I suggested in the first place. it becomes a game of musical chairs and i could see valentine here if fredi wanted to go there but he can't or probably won't until there's an opening.

 

back to wiley though it does appear that more and more, since beinfest started saying it a week or so ago about the problems being linked to inconsistent starting pitching, therein resides the core problem as the organization sees it and that may be fredi's saving grace, letting wiley shoulder the blame. no pretty but it's not like it hasn't happened before.

When you're one of the best you can have a hussy fit here and there.

 

I think you need to judge a performance based on the decisions made and not "our payroll was low blah blah.". With a better manager we would have won more games. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong. We won this many games because the marlins players are talented, not because fredi made hanley Or anyone perform better than they are. Fredi made some good decisions but I think the overall feeling is that he missmanaged the bullpen and sp while making too many BIG ingame mistakes.

 

I say let him go if we have a better replacement. He's going to be gone in 2 yrs anyways.

When you're one of the best you can have a hussy fit here and there.

 

I think you need to judge a performance based on the decisions made and not "our payroll was low blah blah.". With a better manager we would have won more games. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong. We won this many games because the marlins players are talented, not because fredi made hanley Or anyone perform better than they are. Fredi made some good decisions but I think the overall feeling is that he missmanaged the bullpen and sp while making too many BIG ingame mistakes.

 

I say let him go if we have a better replacement. He's going to be gone in 2 yrs anyways.

 

I want you to prove to me that you're right first.

That wouldn't surprise me. If Wiley goes you have to hope that the Marlins take a look at Leo Mazzone.

 

 

I dont kno. I think anyone could look good with Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine. Im sure he had something to do with their success but very little.

 

If we were to get Valentine Id be really interested to see how hed handle Hanley and his little hissy fits he seems to have once or twice a year.

 

"GO sit over there and shut up kid, until you behave you won't get your candy."

 

I think he said something like that to Rey Ordonez back in the day.

Crap I was rootng for Erick to get the managerial job if they decided to let Fredi go. I wonder if being in Japan has changed the way Bobby manages and coaches. I really don't care that much who our manager is. I wonder how many wins and losses you can actually account a manger for? It's gotta be pretty low.

 

I'll always remember Valentine dressing up in the mets dug out after getting tossed.

 

 

 

Well, managers do make a difference. You already forgot about the one time Fredi did a good job (i.e. one of the last Philadelphia games played here when he got tossed)?

 

I think Booby would be great here!!! He is exactly what this team is missing... a fiery manager that will light a fire under the a&ses of these players.

When you're one of the best you can have a hussy fit here and there.

 

I think you need to judge a performance based on the decisions made and not "our payroll was low blah blah.". With a better manager we would have won more games. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong. We won this many games because the marlins players are talented, not because fredi made hanley Or anyone perform better than they are. Fredi made some good decisions but I think the overall feeling is that he missmanaged the bullpen and sp while making too many BIG ingame mistakes.

 

I say let him go if we have a better replacement. He's going to be gone in 2 yrs anyways.

 

I want you to prove to me that you're right first.

 

Which ones?

 

By the way, when Fredi got in the face of the umpire in the game against Philly we won. If he had that attitude all year, with the team we have, we would be in the playoffs not Philly. There's your proof.

When you're one of the best you can have a hussy fit here and there.

 

I think you need to judge a performance based on the decisions made and not "our payroll was low blah blah.". With a better manager we would have won more games. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong. We won this many games because the marlins players are talented, not because fredi made hanley Or anyone perform better than they are. Fredi made some good decisions but I think the overall feeling is that he missmanaged the bullpen and sp while making too many BIG ingame mistakes.

 

I say let him go if we have a better replacement. He's going to be gone in 2 yrs anyways.

 

I want you to prove to me that you're right first.

 

Which ones?

 

By the way, when Fredi got in the face of the umpire in the game against Philly we won. If he had that attitude all year, with the team we have, we would be in the playoffs not Philly. There's your proof.

That's not what proof means.