That would cause a huge drop in offense. Carroll is not an everyday player in the major leagues period. It is possible that the Marlins could get a young outfielder than can hit back for the players they off in trades over the winter. You are right though, they need more pitching.

That would cause a huge drop in offense. Carroll is not an everyday player in the major leagues period. It is possible that the Marlins could get a young outfielder than can hit back for the players they off in trades over the winter. You are right though, they need more pitching.

 

.743 offensively from Maybin, G. Sanchez/Morrison/Vet. 1B Gload Replacement, and Carroll/Petersen/Vet. LF Gload replacement to replace Uggla, Hermida, N. Johnson, and Bonifacio. And it's really going to be even lower, because the defensive upgrades from Maybin and Carroll/whoever over Hermida and Coghlan in the OF is going to be enormous. There shouldn't be any decreases anywhere else as Coghlan, Cantu, and G. Sanchez/Morrison/Vet, shouldn't be downgrades.

 

This. Is. Going. To. Be. Fine.

 

2010 is about the pitching.

Here are the teams that will be in the market for a 2B: Twins, Tigers, Cubs, Dodgers, Giants and D-Backs. You can likely cross off both the Tigers and D-Backs who aren't going to be willing to pay what Dan Uggla will make in 2010. If you are looking for relief pitching back from Uggla then the Dodgers is the place to go. You might be able to pluck McDonald and Wade from them. The Twins are getting frustrated with Francisco Liriano if he is a pitcher that the Marlins like. The Cubs don't have the pitching depth to give any to the Marlins. The Giants could give up Jonathan Sanchez and Sergio Romo or Merkin Valdez for him as they need offense badly. I have doubts that any team will look at him as the 3B. Still, they should have no problem trading him for pitching. I just hope that in one of the trades the Marlins make they get a major league ready outfielder to play LF. Playing Brett Carroll in left field will be like having to pitchers in the starting lineup and the Marlins can't afford that. As far as Maybin and Sanchez hitting as well as you think they will.....only time will tell. You are also the guy that said Hermida would be a beast.

I dont know why people dont think Carroll can be an everyday player. Seems like he is similar to what cody ross went through. Didnt get much playing time, people said he couldnt play, got a little more playing time, then he was a "cant play everyday player", now he is starting...

Let's see. In Cody Ross' first full season with the Marlins in 2007 he played in 66 games and he hit .335 with a 1.064 OPS. He cranked 12 homers in only 173 at bats so I don't really get what you're talking about with him. He has been solid since the day he arrived in Miami. Carroll has not. On a side note the Giants won't be interested in Uggla anymore as they have re-signed Freddy Sanchez.

I'm not going to reprint them here, this is the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5404 ...

 

...but Ross didn't set the world on fire when he first came up in 2005, in fact offensively he was atrocious in part-time play in 2005 and 2006 and it wasn't until he started a few games in 2007 here in Fla that things came together for him. We're just going to have to wait to see what Carroll develops into and until we know I'm satisfied Ross is not the worst example that could be used in fact Carroll could be better as easily as he could be worse or the same. Only time and playing time will tell.

 

If Carroll pushes his way into the starting lineup this spring (barring injuries to Ross or someone else) it could be the quickest way to force Coghlan to the infield (see the dominoes falling) so if you want to see some other moves made and you're a Coghlan to second base guy you might want to be rooting for Carroll to blow up big next spring.

Ross and Carroll are not remotely the same. Cody was the 2003 Tigers minor league player of the year, he was traded to the Dodgers for 2 prospects and immediately rated thier top defensive OF and some lists considered him their top power prospect. His stock only diminished after he languished on the Dodger bench.

 

Carroll is an excellent defensive OF, but his only great minor league hitting perfomances have come in an EXTREME hitter's league. He reverted to the norm in New Orleans. I happen to think he can be a valuable 4th OF and option against LHP, but lets not get carried away.

I guess you can cross the Giants off of the Uggla trade list, since they just re-signed Freddy Sanchez for 2 years/$12 million.

I guess you can cross the Giants off of the Uggla trade list, since they just re-signed Freddy Sanchez for 2 years/$12 million.

 

 

Twins

Tigers

Cubs

Dodgers

Giants

D-Backs

I'm just trying to remember that last year we were supposed to be getting better by getting rid of Mike Jacobs. But instead, what ended up happening was that we moved Cantu to first, thereby making him one of the weaker first basemen in the league, while we also had the worst third basemen in the league.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be the one saying "it will be fine" when there simply is nobody we have that can step in and provide good offensive production on opening day next year. Saying Brett Carroll is capable of being a starter in left field is like saying Alejandro De Aza should have been our longterm center fielder. There is just no basis for it besides a couple nice games.

I'm just trying to remember that last year we were supposed to be getting better by getting rid of Mike Jacobs. But instead, what ended up happening was that we moved Cantu to first, thereby making him one of the weaker first basemen in the league, while we also had the worst third basemen in the league.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be the one saying "it will be fine" when there simply is nobody we have that can step in and provide good offensive production on opening day next year. Saying Brett Carroll is capable of being a starter in left field is like saying Alejandro De Aza should have been our longterm center fielder. There is just no basis for it besides a couple nice games.

 

 

For the first thing, re: Jacobs, we didn't get better because Emilio got 500 PA while being really bad. We also barely got worse, our team OPS just dropped by .003 points and we scored 2 more runs than we did last year. And from 1B we got a .817 OPS this season after getting .811 last year (And Cantu had a .844 OPS while playing 1b, so you can't say that was entirely because of NJ), while getting a sh*t ton better on defense

 

Secondly, with Carroll, you at least know that Carroll is going to play amazing defense, possibly the best corner OFer in baseball. We could certainly do better. Projection systems have had him around a .680 OPS, which I think is something fair to expect out of him, and that's certainly far from good even with his defense. But having BC starting isn't going to drop us from a team with a win total in the 80's to a team with a win total in the 70's.

I'm just trying to remember that last year we were supposed to be getting better by getting rid of Mike Jacobs. But instead, what ended up happening was that we moved Cantu to first, thereby making him one of the weaker first basemen in the league, while we also had the worst third basemen in the league.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be the one saying "it will be fine" when there simply is nobody we have that can step in and provide good offensive production on opening day next year. Saying Brett Carroll is capable of being a starter in left field is like saying Alejandro De Aza should have been our longterm center fielder. There is just no basis for it besides a couple nice games.

 

 

For the first thing, re: Jacobs, we didn't get better because Emilio got 500 PA while being really bad. We also barely got worse, our team OPS just dropped by .003 points and we scored 2 more runs than we did last year. And from 1B we got a .817 OPS this season after getting .811 last year (And Cantu had a .844 OPS while playing 1b, so you can't say that was entirely because of NJ), while getting a sh*t ton better on defense

 

Secondly, with Carroll, you at least know that Carroll is going to play amazing defense, possibly the best corner OFer in baseball. We could certainly do better. Projection systems have had him around a .680 OPS, which I think is something fair to expect out of him, and that's certainly far from good even with his defense. But having BC starting isn't going to drop us from a team with a win total in the 80's to a team with a win total in the 70's.

 

Agree with this. By the way, can those projection do splits, like to see how Carroll does vs LHP? In his short MLB career, he has better numbers against Power Pitchers (.786 OPS over 83 PAs). It'd be good to start him vs. LHP, Power Pitchers, and a hanful of others, while using an LHB who has good splits vs RHP for the rest of the games. I think that could be a successful platoon.

I'm just trying to remember that last year we were supposed to be getting better by getting rid of Mike Jacobs. But instead, what ended up happening was that we moved Cantu to first, thereby making him one of the weaker first basemen in the league, while we also had the worst third basemen in the league.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be the one saying "it will be fine" when there simply is nobody we have that can step in and provide good offensive production on opening day next year. Saying Brett Carroll is capable of being a starter in left field is like saying Alejandro De Aza should have been our longterm center fielder. There is just no basis for it besides a couple nice games.

 

 

For the first thing, re: Jacobs, we didn't get better because Emilio got 500 PA while being really bad. We also barely got worse, our team OPS just dropped by .003 points and we scored 2 more runs than we did last year. And from 1B we got a .817 OPS this season after getting .811 last year (And Cantu had a .844 OPS while playing 1b, so you can't say that was entirely because of NJ), while getting a sh*t ton better on defense

 

Secondly, with Carroll, you at least know that Carroll is going to play amazing defense, possibly the best corner OFer in baseball. We could certainly do better. Projection systems have had him around a .680 OPS, which I think is something fair to expect out of him, and that's certainly far from good even with his defense. But having BC starting isn't going to drop us from a team with a win total in the 80's to a team with a win total in the 70's.

 

Nobody in the league cares about defense as far as starting corner outfielders are concerned, at least in LF. It's an offensive position, and one that the smart teams in the league fill wisely. It doesn't take a star, all it takes is a good bet on a minor league free agent and you can get a heck of a lot better than a .680 OPS. Bonifacio was really bad, but I have a feeling that we could end up with a player almost as bad next year. Thats why I bring it up. Its certain that we are probably going to get rid of Uggla and Hermida, and moving Coghlan will only fill one. Unless Logan Morrison is ready at the outset, we may end with a LFer of Bonifacio proportions. Or worse, Bonifacio himself. I'll save this quote and we'll see what we're saying in June.

 

BTW, Cameron Maybin could easily flop again next year.

FTR, BC will start in RF, not LF. That would be Cody's spot, unless they either get rid of Cody (doubtful), or if they leave Coghlan in LF. But either way, I think it's a very small chance he plays LF.

FTR, BC will start in RF, not LF. That would be Cody's spot, unless they either get rid of Cody (doubtful), or if they leave Coghlan in LF. But either way, I think it's a very small chance he plays LF.

 

 

Well, truthfully, it doesn't really matter which position he is playing all that much, the result will be the same. I know what I'm saying kind of seems counter-intuitive to what I was just talking about as far as RF-LF, but the truth is that while Carroll is more the proto RFer than Cody is, we could easily have Cody play right and still have good defense there. So Carroll starting would still be in lieu of a good LF bat, which we are desperately going to need.

FTR, BC will start in RF, not LF. That would be Cody's spot, unless they either get rid of Cody (doubtful), or if they leave Coghlan in LF. But either way, I think it's a very small chance he plays LF.

 

 

Well, truthfully, it doesn't really matter which position he is playing all that much, the result will be the same. I know what I'm saying kind of seems counter-intuitive to what I was just talking about as far as RF-LF, but the truth is that while Carroll is more the proto RFer than Cody is, we could easily have Cody play right and still have good defense there. So Carroll starting would still be in lieu of a good LF bat, which we are desperately going to need.

 

Either way, I assume you are saying RF is a more important defensive position. I agree with that, and BC will have more overall value if he plays there.

FTR, BC will start in RF, not LF. That would be Cody's spot, unless they either get rid of Cody (doubtful), or if they leave Coghlan in LF. But either way, I think it's a very small chance he plays LF.

 

 

Well, truthfully, it doesn't really matter which position he is playing all that much, the result will be the same. I know what I'm saying kind of seems counter-intuitive to what I was just talking about as far as RF-LF, but the truth is that while Carroll is more the proto RFer than Cody is, we could easily have Cody play right and still have good defense there. So Carroll starting would still be in lieu of a good LF bat, which we are desperately going to need.

 

Either way, I assume you are saying RF is a more important defensive position. I agree with that, and BC will have more overall value if he plays there.

 

Yeah, you are right about that, although it wasn't necessarily what I was trying to say. I think Carroll can be a very good 4th outfielder and spot starter if he continues to hit reasonably. I just have my doubts about starting a guy who the projection systems will most likely show as a below average bat. Why not make an attempt to get a guy somehow is going to be at least average at a position? It's the Marlins willingness to do this that has left them out of the playoffs for years. And again, you can consider it all about payroll, but this team never really loses players (well, except for our bullpen band-aids that we sign every year), they just cash them in for other assets that are cheaper. We've just never gone into a season with every position on the field adequately filled, despite sometimes sending out a lot of talent at certain positions that were surplus to us but could have been turned into better players at other positions.

It would be nice to have an outfielder that can at least put up numbers like Juan Encarnacion used to. He was nothing special but he did a lot of things well. Even if Carroll has a career year I don't see it including 15 homers or 75 RBIs. That is pretty much a requirement for a starting corner outfielder in the major leagues, period.

It would be nice to have an outfielder that can at least put up numbers like Juan Encarnacion used to. He was nothing special but he did a lot of things well. Even if Carroll has a career year I don't see it including 15 homers or 75 RBIs. That is pretty much a requirement for a starting corner outfielder in the major leagues, period.

 

RBIs are stupid.

 

I think a Mark Kotsay (throwing out a cheaper corner of/1b type free agent) / Carroll relative RHP/LHP platoon, would be very productive.

A Carroll/Kotsay platoon would be the worst corner outfielder in the major leagues, period. Hermida could put up better numbers than that. Runs and RBIs are what wins ballgames Lou. I thought you were smarter than that! OPS is the overrated number as it skews too much to the power hitters.

A Carroll/Kotsay platoon would be the worst corner outfielder in the major leagues, period. Hermida could put up better numbers than that. Runs and RBIs are what wins ballgames Lou. I thought you were smarter than that! OPS is the overrated number as it skews too much to the power hitters.

 

Kotsay vs RHP .290/.347/.419 (.766) (Kotsay was .288/.345/.432 (.777) in 2008). These two years are a 450+ PA split. Which is significant.

Carroll vs LHP .258/.285/.515 (.801)

 

It would be imperfect, but let's call it a .770. And let's just scale it down to .760 for the hell of it. And they would be top 5 defensively. Making a very solid combo. You also mentioned this thread at minimum, we need Juan Encarnacion. Career OPS .758. Good one!

 

Also, you fail to realize the Marlins could promote Petersen (top hitting in the AFL right now), or maybe get Morrison out there. There is internal depth to help this. We just need a guy, a lefty veteran to be exact, that can hit a bit out there.

 

Worse outfielders last year, minimum 300 PA.

 

Pierre, W. Harris, Guillen, N. Morgan, J. Bautista, Sweeney, Hart, Melky, Snider, Dickerson, Hamilton, Hermida, Bourn, F. Lewis, Rowand, Headley, Delmon, Francouer, Dukes, Parra, Soriano, Gardner, Church, Rasmus, Wells, C. Young, C. Thomas, Velez, Spilboroughs, Garret, Schierholtz, Matthews Jr., Lastings, T. Gwyn, Rios, Balentien, Duncan, B. Upton, Gross, J. Guillen, Ankiel, Winn, Moss, Maier, Bloomquist, Byrnes, Gerut, C. Gomez, Hall, Anderson, Taveras, and Brian Giles.

 

Moral of the story is, the Marlins get production from cheaper sources so we have to do things like this. And this would work despite the fact you have no concept of production.

Here's why you have no concept of production Lou......who is a better career hitter: Ichiro or Jack Cust?

Kotsay should retire.

Here's why you have no concept of production Lou......who is a better career hitter: Ichiro or Jack Cust?

 

 

 

If Cust didn't strike out as much, he maybe could be considered a better hitter.

Here's why you have no concept of production Lou......who is a better career hitter: Ichiro or Jack Cust?

 

 

 

If Cust didn't strike out as much, he maybe could be considered a better hitter.

 

 

That is insane. Ichiro is going right into the Hall of Fame five years after he retires. Ichiro has a career OPS in the majors of .812 while Jack Cust has a .829. But, Ichiro is a .333 hitter and Cust is a .239 hitter. There is no comparision between these two hitters that would favor Cust except that he hits more homers. And if Ichiro swung for the fences more he would hit a lot more homers as he has above average power he just swings for hits. He has had over 200 hits every single year that he has ever played in the majors.