December 20, 200916 yr http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091220&content_id=7834588&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com 12/20/09 6:05 PM EST MIAMI -- When Aroldis Chapman worked out for Major League teams last Tuesday in Houston, a representative from the Marlins was on hand. The club certainly was impressed with what it saw in the left-handed Cuban defector. According to the Miami Herald, the Marlins have made a five-year offer worth $13 million for the hard-throwing lefty. A standout on the Cuban World Baseball Classic squad, Chapman's fastball has been clocked as high as 102 mph. Various reports have had more than 20 teams inquiring in Chapman. The Red Sox reportedly have offered $15.5 million for the 21-year-old. With a large Cuban population in South Florida, Chapman would project to be a major attraction in the market. Regardless of where Chapman signs, the lefty is expected to open the season at Double-A. But the belief among league officials is he is very close to being big league ready.
December 20, 200916 yr $13m that should be going towards JJ. So like why are we offering 5 years to a guy who has never pitched in America, whereas we currently don't seem to want to offer 4 years to our ace?
December 21, 200916 yr cant imagine this happening, but hell thats pretty cheap for all the hype he's getting. if chapman's down i don't see how this could be bad.
December 21, 200916 yr $13m that should be going towards JJ. So like why are we offering 5 years to a guy who has never pitched in America, whereas we currently don't seem to want to offer 4 years to our ace? Everyone needs to get the JJ thoughts out of this. They are not connected in any way. Why 5 years? Because 5 years takes him through most of what would be his "arbitration years" (if he were even to start at this level) at a very decent price. If he dosen't make it up here this year, then most likely we see him next year. Same scenario. The kid is not a draft pick that we can just give a huge signing bonus to and then control him for however long at a minimum price. He's a FA signing that will start in the minors.
December 21, 200916 yr Red Sox 15.5 million and we offered 13 over 5 years. Does anyone know what the state income tax is in Mass.? Because the offers to me appear to be identical after factoring that in.
December 21, 200916 yr Red Sox 15.5 million and we offered 13 over 5 years. Does anyone know what the state income tax is in Mass.? Because the offers to me appear to be identical after factoring that in. Im pretty sure it's much higher. That's usually the trend with the North versus the South, isnt it?
December 21, 200916 yr I don't know about the income tax thing but I'm just shocked we offered him that much and for 5 years
December 21, 200916 yr Red Sox 15.5 million and we offered 13 over 5 years. Does anyone know what the state income tax is in Mass.? Because the offers to me appear to be identical after factoring that in. Im pretty sure it's much higher. That's usually the trend with the North versus the South, isnt it? Massachusetts has a 5.3% income tax, and there is no benefit to living in NH because then he has high property taxes and Massachusetts income taxes.
December 21, 200916 yr Red Sox 15.5 million and we offered 13 over 5 years. Does anyone know what the state income tax is in Mass.? Because the offers to me appear to be identical after factoring that in. Im pretty sure it's much higher. That's usually the trend with the North versus the South, isnt it? Massachusetts has a 5.3% income tax, and there is no benefit to living in NH because then he has high property taxes and Massachusetts income taxes. The Marlin's offer is excellent compared to the Red Sox at least at face value
December 21, 200916 yr Red Sox 15.5 million and we offered 13 over 5 years. Does anyone know what the state income tax is in Mass.? Because the offers to me appear to be identical after factoring that in. Im pretty sure it's much higher. That's usually the trend with the North versus the South, isnt it? Massachusetts has a 5.3% income tax, and there is no benefit to living in NH because then he has high property taxes and Massachusetts income taxes. The Marlin's offer is excellent compared to the Red Sox at least at face value Also consider that the Red Sox deal is 3 years and Marlins is 5 years. Does he want to be locked up for 5 years? Will it be better? In 3 years if he doesn't move up through Boston quick, which pitchers normally dont, would he be worth any more? Would he be worth a lot more after 5 years in Florida? Will he move up quick in Florida?
December 21, 200916 yr the sox offered a 3 year 15 million dollar contract? and the marlins are offering a 5 year 13 million? why in the world would he sign with us?
December 21, 200916 yr Is there a link confirming that the Red Sox offer was spread over only three years? I haven't seen that written anywhere.
December 21, 200916 yr Job security. In baseball more value is generally put on contract length then actual amount, especially on a pitchers side. Five years to prove yourself for the big payday compared to three. More room for error, longer time to grow yourself, serious injuries have less of an impact. It's not entirely foolhardy to take less money and a longer contract this early in his career. If he's the real deal he'll get his big payday eventually, he just needs to set himself in the best position to do so. Either way, over 2m a year for five years for a 21 year old fresh out of Cuba, not something to sneeze at for a man who hasn't actually proven anything aside from the fact he can throw hard as hell.
December 21, 200916 yr Also, I don't think the lack of the state income tax has the draw that many think it does. If you don't give the player a no trade clause, they could be shipped anywhere. Look what happened with Delgado. The Marlins knew they didn't have the resources that the NY Mets had and were trying to lure Delgado to sign a multi-year deal because there is no state income tax in Florida. One year later, he was paying NY state income tax and NYC cost of living anyway. Chapman's agent is going to be pushing him to take the most financially lucrative offer. I'd imagine that his cut is pre-tax, so his only concern is that his client gets the maximum pay-out.
December 21, 200916 yr Job security. In baseball more value is generally put on contract length then actual amount, especially on a pitchers side. Five years to prove yourself for the big payday compared to three. More room for error, longer time to grow yourself, serious injuries have less of an impact. It's not entirely foolhardy to take less money and a longer contract this early in his career. If he's the real deal he'll get his big payday eventually, he just needs to set himself in the best position to do so. Either way, over 2m a year for five years for a 21 year old fresh out of Cuba, not something to sneeze at for a man who hasn't actually proven anything aside from the fact he can throw hard as hell. Strongly disagree. Even if he doesn't prove himself in three years, he will still get another offer to some extent. If he proves to be a bust after three years, he still earns more money than he would have with the five year deal. Job security only has value because it ensures an employee a paycheck. There is no real advantage of having a contract for five years if the dollar amount is less than it would be for only three years. He has nothing to gain from signing a longer contract for less money right now.
December 22, 200916 yr Job security. In baseball more value is generally put on contract length then actual amount, especially on a pitchers side. Five years to prove yourself for the big payday compared to three. More room for error, longer time to grow yourself, serious injuries have less of an impact. It's not entirely foolhardy to take less money and a longer contract this early in his career. If he's the real deal he'll get his big payday eventually, he just needs to set himself in the best position to do so. Either way, over 2m a year for five years for a 21 year old fresh out of Cuba, not something to sneeze at for a man who hasn't actually proven anything aside from the fact he can throw hard as hell. Strongly disagree. Even if he doesn't prove himself in three years, he will still get another offer to some extent. If he proves to be a bust after three years, he still earns more money than he would have with the five year deal. Job security only has value because it ensures an employee a paycheck. There is no real advantage of having a contract for five years if the dollar amount is less than it would be for only three years. He has nothing to gain from signing a longer contract for less money right now. Good point, I can see where you coming from I guess they are riding The Cuban community appeal where that and 3.50 gets you a cup of coffee
December 22, 200916 yr Is there a link confirming that the Red Sox offer was spread over only three years? I haven't seen that written anywhere. only article I can find, and he quotes an ESPN the magazine article by Arangure--but can't find that article. http://duelingcouches.blogspot.com/2009/12/latest-on-aroldis-chapman.html
December 22, 200916 yr Also, I don't think the lack of the state income tax has the draw that many think it does. If you don't give the player a no trade clause, they could be shipped anywhere. Look what happened with Delgado. The Marlins knew they didn't have the resources that the NY Mets had and were trying to lure Delgado to sign a multi-year deal because there is no state income tax in Florida. One year later, he was paying NY state income tax and NYC cost of living anyway. Chapman's agent is going to be pushing him to take the most financially lucrative offer. I'd imagine that his cut is pre-tax, so his only concern is that his client gets the maximum pay-out. I've never read the K that Delgado signed with the Marlins. Do we know for sure that it didn't include a clause that affects the salary in situaitons of a trade for tax purposes.
December 22, 200916 yr I've never read the K that Delgado signed with the Marlins. Do we know for sure that it didn't include a clause that affects the salary in situaitons of a trade for tax purposes. While Florida doesn't have a state income tax, many states with major league teams do. Delgado doesn't have a no-trade clause and if he is dealt, the contract requires that the club acquiring him make up any difference in state and local taxes. "He'll net out, regardless where he goes if traded, exactly what he would have netted had he remained in Florida," Delgado's agent, David Sloane, said Tuesday. "So if it's to a place with state and city tax, then he'll be made whole for state and city taxes." http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1981820
December 22, 200916 yr I've never read the K that Delgado signed with the Marlins. Do we know for sure that it didn't include a clause that affects the salary in situaitons of a trade for tax purposes. While Florida doesn't have a state income tax, many states with major league teams do. Delgado doesn't have a no-trade clause and if he is dealt, the contract requires that the club acquiring him make up any difference in state and local taxes. "He'll net out, regardless where he goes if traded, exactly what he would have netted had he remained in Florida," Delgado's agent, David Sloane, said Tuesday. "So if it's to a place with state and city tax, then he'll be made whole for state and city taxes." http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1981820 So it does factor in. 15 mill from us is more than 15 mill from the Red Sox for example.
December 22, 200916 yr I've never read the K that Delgado signed with the Marlins. Do we know for sure that it didn't include a clause that affects the salary in situaitons of a trade for tax purposes. While Florida doesn't have a state income tax, many states with major league teams do. Delgado doesn't have a no-trade clause and if he is dealt, the contract requires that the club acquiring him make up any difference in state and local taxes. "He'll net out, regardless where he goes if traded, exactly what he would have netted had he remained in Florida," Delgado's agent, David Sloane, said Tuesday. "So if it's to a place with state and city tax, then he'll be made whole for state and city taxes." http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1981820 So it does factor in. 15 mill from us is more than 15 mill from the Red Sox for example. Yes, it almost evens out. He would lose about 800,000 in state income taxes paid to massachusetts. So that gives him 1 million extra. Does 1 million in Boston mean that much more than living in south Florida? For a Cuban it may and probably does.
December 23, 200916 yr JJ's reaction to the offer http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/2009/12/22/could-florida-marlins-land-cuban-pitching-phenom-aroldis-chapman/ “I hope the Marlins sign as many young players to long-term deals as possible,� Johnson said in remarks forwarded to me by his agent, Matt Sosnick. The front office “has been great to me,� Johnson said. “I’ve never had any issues with them.� JJ's agent “I just want to do a deal that’s good for Josh and keeps him in Florida for a long time,� Sosnick said. JJ has stated publicly that he hopes to get a deal done soon, despite earlier reports that his agent his done negotiating with the team completely.
December 23, 200916 yr Looks like they cleared up the JJ mess. It would be nice to keep Uggla, sign JJ and have Chapman agree to the 5/13 deal.
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