February 3, 201016 yr the difference is, is that those things you mentioned applied to everyone in the league. All hitters didn't face black pitchers. On the other hand, not all hitters used steroids in the steroid era. That then skews the perception of how good a hitter really was. Players that didn't cheat now don't look as impressive because the league numbers are skewed by those that did cheat. I don't really care about roids, especially since individual cheating has always happened. But there's a big difference between cheating (which only improves the person who is cheating) and league-wide mandates that effect the entire league.
February 3, 201016 yr Not all major league players cheated during the steroid era. I'm sure that a lot of players who were good enough to play if everyone were clean had short careers.
February 3, 201016 yr No response to my last post, BI2008? Convenient. No. Steroids are performance enhancing drugs, period.
February 3, 201016 yr No response to my last post, BI2008? Convenient. No. Steroids are performance enhancing drugs, period. That has nothing to do with my post? My post concerned exposing problems with your prescribed solution to baseball's steroids "problem".
February 3, 201016 yr No response to my last post, BI2008? Convenient. No. Steroids are performance enhancing drugs, period. That has nothing to do with my post? My post concerned exposing problems with your prescribed solution to baseball's steroids "problem". Greenies are pretty much speed, right?
February 3, 201016 yr If baseball really wanted to rid itself of steroids....the first time a player is caught he should be banned for life....period. And if the U.S. really wanted to rid itself of thievery....the first time a person is caught he should be thrown in jail for life....period. Those are two different things. You are smarter than that....I think. Apparently you aren't smart enough to see my point. Just because a certain punishment would eliminate a certain crime doesn't mean that it's a good, fair, right, or just punishment. Um, this is my post.....I didn't say anything about greenies or speed?
February 3, 201016 yr If baseball really wanted to rid itself of steroids....the first time a player is caught he should be banned for life....period. And if the U.S. really wanted to rid itself of thievery....the first time a person is caught he should be thrown in jail for life....period. Those are two different things. You are smarter than that....I think. Apparently you aren't smart enough to see my point. Just because a certain punishment would eliminate a certain crime doesn't mean that it's a good, fair, right, or just punishment. Um, this is my post.....I didn't say anything about greenies or speed? O.K. so you are going to be good with Alex Rodriguez (an admitted cheater) when he leads the all-time lists in history in hits, runs scored, homers and RBIs? The way to stop cheaters like Barry Bonds and A-Rod is to fire them when they use drugs just like would happen to every american if caught at work. Plain and simple. The integrity of the game needs protected. I am smart enough to get your point. You want to give everyone a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chances to clean up their acts. I don't agree with that. Like Baretta used to say, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".
February 3, 201016 yr O.K. so you are going to be good with Alex Rodriguez (an admitted cheater) when he leads the all-time lists in history in hits, runs scored, homers and RBIs? The way to stop cheaters like Barry Bonds and A-Rod is to fire them when they use drugs just like would happen to every american if caught at work. Plain and simple. The integrity of the game needs protected. This thinking is stupid. Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez are all-time greats with or without steroids. To say they need to be fired and vanished from the sport is silly, imo. Making contact with a baseball is one of the hardest things to do in sports, period. Sure steroids helped them, but there have been a lot of nobodies who took steroids. People don't care about those guys.
February 3, 201016 yr I am smart enough to get your point. You want to give everyone a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chances to clean up their acts. I don't agree with that. Like Baretta used to say, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Athletes get second chances for gun possession and even killing people. Why not for steroids? Do you believe players in other sports who are taking steroids should be fired too? We wouldn't be watching sports, unfortunately, in your world.
February 3, 201016 yr I am smart enough to get your point. You want to give everyone a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chances to clean up their acts. I don't agree with that. Like Baretta used to say, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time". Athletes get second chances for gun possession and even killing people. Why not for steroids? Do you believe players in other sports who are taking steroids should be fired too? We wouldn't be watching sports, unfortunately, in your world. Athletes that do crimes off the field are not cheating. They pay the price to society in jail terms, fines, etc. I watched baseball with the blown up pro wrestlers with bats and I watched in the 70's and 80's when the game was better. Yes all performance enhancing players should be gone in every sport.
February 3, 201016 yr O.K. so you are going to be good with Alex Rodriguez (an admitted cheater) when he leads the all-time lists in history in hits, runs scored, homers and RBIs? The way to stop cheaters like Barry Bonds and A-Rod is to fire them when they use drugs just like would happen to every american if caught at work. Plain and simple. The integrity of the game needs protected. This thinking is stupid. Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez are all-time greats with or without steroids. To say they need to be fired and vanished from the sport is silly, imo. Making contact with a baseball is one of the hardest things to do in sports, period. Sure steroids helped them, but there have been a lot of nobodies who took steroids. People don't care about those guys. Your thinking is dumb if you think Barry Bonds didn't hit all of those homers because he was on drugs. Look at him with the Pirates as that is the player he was on pure ability. If you're already an elite player like you say Bonds and A-Rod are then why cheat?
February 3, 201016 yr What about all of the guys who played fair? No sympathy for them? The money they lost by playing the game the way it is meant to be played? And what about the pitchers trying to throw to those guys?
February 3, 201016 yr Mike Lowell probably used steroids. There, I said it. Pudge too! Always found it quite fishy that he posted an .818 OPS and his fourth highest HR total in his first full season, nine months after being diagnosed with cancer.
February 3, 201016 yr I'm pretty sure that Pudge did. I have not thought than any player in Jose Canseco's book were clean. He never got sued by anyone. Plus did you see how little Rodriguez' arms got in Detroit? Amazing. I also heard that Lowell's cancer meds added to his power making him quite a bit stronger. Don't know it that is true or not.
February 3, 201016 yr O.K. so you are going to be good with Alex Rodriguez (an admitted cheater) when he leads the all-time lists in history in hits, runs scored, homers and RBIs? The way to stop cheaters like Barry Bonds and A-Rod is to fire them when they use drugs just like would happen to every american if caught at work. Plain and simple. The integrity of the game needs protected. This thinking is stupid. Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez are all-time greats with or without steroids. To say they need to be fired and vanished from the sport is silly, imo. Making contact with a baseball is one of the hardest things to do in sports, period. Sure steroids helped them, but there have been a lot of nobodies who took steroids. People don't care about those guys. Your thinking is dumb if you think Barry Bonds didn't hit all of those homers because he was on drugs. Look at him with the Pirates as that is the player he was on pure ability. If you're already an elite player like you say Bonds and A-Rod are then why cheat? Based on pure ability, with the Pirates, he was also a HOF caliber player. Why take steroids? More like why not? If it's legal in the sport, and you have the chance to gain a competitive advantage...A LOT of players did it. You've never cheated on a test before? Also...did it ever occur to you that they might've taken steroids to keep playing a season that's 162 games long? Who did they hurt? They only hurt themselves. The "roiders" provided excitement for the public. That's what sports are all about. Entertainment. To say all cheaters should be banned is ridiculous. We wouldn't have sports. And us, in general, we'd all be dead. I'm pretty sure everyone on here has cheated and cheated more than once in your lifetimes. Lets stop being hypocrites.
February 3, 201016 yr Athletes that do crimes off the field are not cheating. They pay the price to society in jail terms, fines, etc. I watched baseball with the blown up pro wrestlers with bats and I watched in the 70's and 80's when the game was better. Yes all performance enhancing players should be gone in every sport. When you watched in the 70's and 80's everyone was doing speed instead of steroids. You're championing a time full of PEDs.
February 4, 201016 yr I don't care that he used steroids, Barry Bonds was a better baseball player than anyone who played in the "clean" era of the 70s and 80s (which is a meaningless term, as Rab points out). PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. To say that it was a worse game is silly.
February 4, 201016 yr Athletes that do crimes off the field are not cheating. They pay the price to society in jail terms, fines, etc. I watched baseball with the blown up pro wrestlers with bats and I watched in the 70's and 80's when the game was better. Yes all performance enhancing players should be gone in every sport. When you watched in the 70's and 80's everyone was doing speed instead of steroids. You're championing a time full of PEDs. Which is the funniest thing about all of this to me. He's ridiculing todays players, where finding and getting away with cheating is so much harder, and champaining people in an era where, and I quote, in relationship to the 60's and 70's era, "We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed. And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them". -Tom House. Quite frankly, I find it hilarious.
February 4, 201016 yr PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. that's a pretty depressing conclusion to reach.
February 4, 201016 yr PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. that's a pretty depressing conclusion to reach. I don't. I think the moral attitude about steroids is silly. Why does Mark McGwire get villanized for getting help from steroids but Josh Willingham get away with it when it's basically keeping him in the game. Cortisone shots, which keep Hammer employed, are very much a steroid. It's by definition a drug that enhances his performance, so are tons of other supplements that players take these days without persecution. McGwire is getting killed for doing something that wasn't banned at the time and wasn't illegal (depending on how he got the steroids). And Backin, you still haven't told me why you are championing the most PED infected time in the history of the game, the 70's and 80's, which were filled with greenies.
February 4, 201016 yr PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. that's a pretty depressing conclusion to reach. I don't. I think the moral attitude about steroids is silly. Why does Mark McGwire get villanized for getting help from steroids but Josh Willingham get away with it when it's basically keeping him in the game. Cortisone shots, which keep Hammer employed, are very much a steroid. It's by definition a drug that enhances his performance, so are tons of other supplements that players take these days without persecution. McGwire is getting killed for doing something that wasn't banned at the time and wasn't illegal (depending on how he got the steroids). I don't have a moral attitude about it personally. and for myself I've never come down hard on anyone who's taken steroids, be it Bonds or some no-name minor leaguer. I don't think it's immoral or something, I just think it's unfortunate.
February 4, 201016 yr PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. that's a pretty depressing conclusion to reach. I don't. I think the moral attitude about steroids is silly. Why does Mark McGwire get villanized for getting help from steroids but Josh Willingham get away with it when it's basically keeping him in the game. Cortisone shots, which keep Hammer employed, are very much a steroid. It's by definition a drug that enhances his performance, so are tons of other supplements that players take these days without persecution. McGwire is getting killed for doing something that wasn't banned at the time and wasn't illegal (depending on how he got the steroids). And Backin, you still haven't told me why you are championing the most PED infected time in the history of the game, the 70's and 80's, which were filled with greenies. This is the way I feel about it, too.
February 4, 201016 yr PEDs are bad because they ruin the integrity of the game, but I still say the game is better to watch if the players are better, and PEDs make the players better. that's a pretty depressing conclusion to reach. I mean, they "enhance performance" right? I'm not advocating steroid usage. But to say they made the game worse to watch is, in my opinion, silly.
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