While I know Dominguez is very young Im still not sold on him. Maybe a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year for Uggla?

 

 

 

He's part of the core we're trying to build around. I understand about potential busts, etc. but every successful organization (especially small market teams like the Marlins) must trust their prospects. You can't just sign Uggla long-term because you're afraid Dominguez won't pan out. I could understand such a deal in the case where Dominguez would still need a couple of years, but the way things are going, Dominguez will probably need another year in the minors, if that. He's developing, nicely.

 

I heard the same stuff coming out of Lou's mouth about Jeremy Hermida. Big time prospect who sucked in the majors. I'm not saying Dominguez will be a bust but you already know you'll get 30+ homers out of Uggla.

 

When it comes down to it, offensively most prospects will never touch Uggla. That's why it would be ridiculous to trade him for under his value. For some reason, teams don't seem inclined to pony up. This team has given away good players for too long, and it's time they set a hard line.

 

I would celebrate it if Uggla were extended, because he provides offense for his position that almost no prospect we could get will- and that's if terms are giving us value, which they're not.

While I know Dominguez is very young Im still not sold on him. Maybe a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year for Uggla?

 

 

 

He's part of the core we're trying to build around. I understand about potential busts, etc. but every successful organization (especially small market teams like the Marlins) must trust their prospects. You can't just sign Uggla long-term because you're afraid Dominguez won't pan out. I could understand such a deal in the case where Dominguez would still need a couple of years, but the way things are going, Dominguez will probably need another year in the minors, if that. He's developing, nicely.

 

I heard the same stuff coming out of Lou's mouth about Jeremy Hermida. Big time prospect who sucked in the majors. I'm not saying Dominguez will be a bust but you already know you'll get 30+ homers out of Uggla.

Oh come on, it's not like everyone in baseball wasn't expecting Brian Giles. He was a Stanton level prospect and regardless if it worked or not, you have to clear room for that player for a few years to see if they pan out. They will give the same leash to Stanton, Maybin, probably Morrison too.

 

Dominguez is good, but he's not that level of player you rearrange the team for. If this team wants to sign around him with a player like Uggla, they should do it. Hes above average and rock solid. Really anything they do with Uggla is going to be a smart decision at this point. It'll just be interesting to see what they do.

 

1 - Trade now, recoup an overwhelming pitching package because there is no need or want to move him

2 - keep for 2011, bridges the gap to Dominguez, and nets two first round picks for type a compensation

3 - keep on a 4 year contract, hedge your bets with coghlan/dominguez panning out longterm, and if both are good, trade chip

 

I am fine with any scenario above. This is a no lose situation. Personally, I think I do number 2, and if Coghlan or Dominguez stinks I approach with a longterm offer after next year in free agency and if he leaves, draft picks are still fun and well have cash to acquire a veteran for short term stop

I like Uggla a lot but I wouldn't sign him long-term. I don't see him as a $12 million player assuming that's what would take to sign him long-term. Even if his bats remains what it is my guess is his defense will continue to deteriorate the next few years. Sign him long-term and then you have over $50 million committed to 3 players in 2012 and that's a lot assuming the supposed $75 million payroll some have mentioned is correct.

 

I would either trade him or just keep him for 2011. It depends on whetehr they realistically intend to contend next year.

Internal Talks Underway to Keep Uggla

 

They are talking about a 3-year deal, too. Here's the article:

 

Can the Marlins afford Dan Uggla?

 

Perhaps the bigger question is can they afford not to sign their power-hitting second baseman?

 

Mentioned in trade rumors for more than a year, Uggla remains a core player on the Marlins. The organization knows what it has in the gritty 30-year-old. They also are not in any rush to move him.

 

While teams covet Uggla, the Marlins are not likely to trade him before the end of the season.

 

In fact, the front office already is talking internally about signing him to a multi-year contract this fall. They have yet to approach Uggla or his agent, Jeff Borris, about a long-term deal. But those conversations are underway.

 

The Marlins have tested the trade market on a number of players, including Uggla. What teams have offered in return for one of the top slugging second baseman in the game has not been worth making a move.

 

The Marlins could see themselves having Hanley Ramirez, Josh Johnson and Uggla signed to multi-year contracts when they head into their new ballpark in 2012.

 

For a team like the Marlins, who are overly cautious when signing multi-year contracts, they want to make as safe an investment as possible.

 

An argument can be made that since his rookie season in 2006, no other Marlin has been more consistent than Uggla. Once again he is on pace for 30 homers and 90 RBIs. Later this season, he will become the team's all-time home run leader. He has 137, which is third highest. Mike Lowell holds the mark with 143.

 

Uggla is making $7.8 million this season, and his salary figure will jump again in 2011, his final season of arbitration. If the Marlins consider say, a three-year contract, they might be able to work something out in the $27 million range. That would average $9 million a season.

 

Now, if Uggla's demands are well over $10 million a season, something likely won't get done. But if there is willingness from both sides, something can be worked out.

 

It would seem in the best interest of both parties to make that happen. If Uggla is traded or signs as a free agent after 2011, he may have a limited market to play second base. Several clubs that have coveted him in the past -- Rockies, Giants, Red Sox -- all talked about moving him to third base, first base or left field.

 

From the Marlins standpoint, rewarding the two-time All-Star would show a sign of loyalty. Consider the bargain he was before he reached arbitration in 2009. From 2006-08, Uggla collected 90 homers and he drove in 270 runs. Over that span, Florida paid him $1.136 million.

 

By giving Uggla a minimum three-years means he and Ramirez would solidify the middle infield for the foreseeable future, as well as keep a power bat in the middle of the order.

 

-- Joe Frisaro

I don't think he's worth more than $10 million with his horrible defense, hot/cold streaks, and age. If he wants more than that, I say trade him in the offseason or let him walk after 2011.

 

I really wish the Marlins could have someone who is at least a plus defender at second base. Considering Hanley is probably the worst defensive SS in baseball, I'd like one of the two middle infielders to be at least decent with the glove. I don't know if Coghlan will end up being decent there or not.

Every organization in baseball would have paid him $1.136 million his first three years. It's called the minimum club controlled salary. Way to paint them as cheap, when they did what was normal. They owed Dan nothing besides that. Every player is paid that amount.

 

Uggla would not take 3/$27. Cano is going to make $10-14-15 those years (as part of a larger contract), Utley $15 a year, Pedoria is going to make 3/$28 during those years of service and he was bought out a season and a half ago (with additional years, making him accept left for a higher guarantee). What a terrible number to throw out there. It's not just lowballing, it's insulting. What have the Marlins done to warrant a drastic under market value home town discount? Hometown discount is accepting a three year contract at market rate and saying "I don't need the 4th." That would be an enormous gesture in itself, let alone the money per year.

 

Uggla is going to need to be slotted under Cano/Utley, above Pedroia for lack of buyout. The Marlins only possibility here is to change it to a vesting option. Why is Uggla going to leave a year of free agency on the table his ONE chance of scoring big in free agency? He's over 30. This is his one shot at banking, which is important because he would easily find a contender needing a bashing 2B/3B.

 

A more realistic expectation is $10-12-12 (3/$34), and let's say there is a fourth year team and/or vesting option for $12 million / 2 year buyout. That's 3/$36 or 4/$46. That's what Uggla is worth, and that's what the Marlins will have to commit to get him. Feel free to take $1-3 million off the total as that is negligible. Point is, it will be drastically higher than a 3/$27 estimate.

 

If they get anything significantly lower, I would be shocked. Regardless, it's probably still a good deal. He is a rock solid 2.5-3+ WAR player with a good walk rate and undeniable power. The defense is suspect, as well as the whiffs, but he has shown he is durable, in great physical condition where there is nothing to suggest his swing will slow down (i.e., whiffs), and he is (intangible alert), a gamer and is not going to be a drama queen. Combined with the non-existent levels of payroll being devoted to Stanton, Maybin, Morrison, Coghlan, Dominguez, Baker, Bonifacio, West, Volstad, and at least 3-5 relievers per year (i.e., half the roster will cost $12 million here the next few seasons), the Marlins can "risk" this contract to Uggla. It is not setting the Marlins bottom line back, unless they are committing serious money after 2013. They have no other needs.

 

This would be a good thing.

Considering Hanley is probably the worst defensive SS in baseball, I'd like one of the two middle infielders to be at least decent with the glove. I don't know if Coghlan will end up being decent there or not.

 

Hanley has a terrible -12 UZR this year, but last year he was -0.1 and in 2008 +.9. Completely neutral. This is far from the worst defensive SS in baseball. He's also been a 7+ WAR player the last two seasons, even if he's having a down year (currently 3rd most valuable SS, terrible!) this year. Who cares what type of production you are getting, as long as you are getting above average production. Hanley/Uggla would be arguably the best up the middle combo in baseball even if they botch an extra grounder a week.

 

If you can find a 3 WAR defensive 2B for cheaper than Uggla, go for it. It's just going to be really hard to do that as maybe 10 guys in baseball are capable of consistently doing that.

I don't think he's worth more than $10 million with his horrible defense, hot/cold streaks, and age. If he wants more than that, I say trade him in the offseason or let him walk after 2011.

 

I really wish the Marlins could have someone who is at least a plus defender at second base. Considering Hanley is probably the worst defensive SS in baseball, I'd like one of the two middle infielders to be at least decent with the glove. I don't know if Coghlan will end up being decent there or not.

 

Hanley is definitely having a poor defensive year but it's just 90 games. If he keeps it up and then has a similarly poor year next year then I would agree. But 90 poor games is not enough to make that judgment.

I think Hanley just gets bored out on the field, at times. He has all the tools to be a very good defensive SS.

For those of you trying to determine how much Dan Uggla is worth on an annual basis, Fangraphs shows that he was worth $14.8, $9.9, $20.8, $13.2, and $11.0 million from years 2006 through 2010, respectively. That averages out to $13.94 million a year. Their dollar value statistic is figured as WAR converted to a dollar scale based on what a player would make in free agency.

Is Uggla THAT bad defensively?

For those of you trying to determine how much Dan Uggla is worth on an annual basis, Fangraphs shows that he was worth $14.8, $9.9, $20.8, $13.2, and $11.0 million from years 2006 through 2010, respectively. That averages out to $13.94 million a year. Their dollar value statistic is figured as WAR converted to a dollar scale based on what a player would make in free agency.

 

 

That's too much money for a 2B with awesome power. He's only hitting 30 homers and 90 RBI a season like 3 years...not like 40 and 110.

For those of you trying to determine how much Dan Uggla is worth on an annual basis, Fangraphs shows that he was worth $14.8, $9.9, $20.8, $13.2, and $11.0 million from years 2006 through 2010, respectively. That averages out to $13.94 million a year. Their dollar value statistic is figured as WAR converted to a dollar scale based on what a player would make in free agency.

 

 

That's too much money for a 2B with awesome power. He's only hitting 30 homers and 90 RBI a season like 3 years...not like 40 and 110.

 

Yeh but how many other second basemen can say the same?

I hope we get to keep him. He is one of out best hitters night in and night out. I like Uggs. I think we need to find a better bullen, PLUS another big starter to compliment JJ and we should be fine.

Uggla was available all last winter and nobody wanted him for two years at eight and ten million.

 

NO ONE will pay Uggla $13M a year.

 

Mentioning Uggla in the same sentence as Cano is sacrilege.

Uggla was available all last winter and nobody wanted him for two years at eight and ten million.

 

NO ONE will pay Uggla $13M a year.

 

Mentioning Uggla in the same sentence as Cano is sacrilege.

 

That's not true as much as noone was willing to give enough up for us.

 

And you're seriously underrating Uggla.

Is Uggla THAT bad defensively?

 

Maybe

 

He has some years really bad 8-12 negative run values, but this year is neutral. So do you think he is getting better? He's not cantu bad, so with his bat and position he is still an incredibly positive player. I'd like him to be better, but he holds his own. Kinda.

Uggla was available all last winter and nobody wanted him for two years at eight and ten million.

 

NO ONE will pay Uggla $13M a year.

 

Mentioning Uggla in the same sentence as Cano is sacrilege.

 

 

I agree that Cano is a far more rounded hitter, but looking at career number, some stats are reasonably close. Here is a brief comparison:

 

Cano/Uggla - Seasons 6/5, Games 827/712, Runs 472/458, Hits 996/696, HR 105/137, RBI 457/413, BB 161/332, KO 378/701, SB 19/17, BA .309/.259, OBP .345/.346, SLG .489/.479

For those of you trying to determine how much Dan Uggla is worth on an annual basis, Fangraphs shows that he was worth $14.8, $9.9, $20.8, $13.2, and $11.0 million from years 2006 through 2010, respectively. That averages out to $13.94 million a year. Their dollar value statistic is figured as WAR converted to a dollar scale based on what a player would make in free agency.

 

That doesn't take into account arbitration versus free agency years, and over inflates from an average of all the production and dollars spent on payroll.

 

He's a 11-12 million player considering his arbitration year, comparables, and production. Pretty safe estimate. Only question is will he take 3 years or demand 4.

Is Uggla THAT bad defensively?

 

Maybe

 

He has some years really bad 8-12 negative run values, but this year is neutral. So do you think he is getting better? He's not cantu bad, so with his bat and position he is still an incredibly positive player. I'd like him to be better, but he holds his own. Kinda.

In terms of +/- he's a -8 so far this year (the worst in baseball). That's not holding his own. He was a -8 last year too.

 

Personally I think that Hanley, Cantu, and Uggla are pretty much equivalent in their suckiness. I yearn for the days where the infield was good defensively. My confidence level with the team was higher. Would I rather have Ramirez over Gonzalez? Absolutely, but I wish the Marlins had more guys in the infield that could hold their own.

Uggla and Hanley had decent years in '06 as rookies so with hard work the potential was there but then Fredi came in and cut down the time spent on defensive drills...

This is interesting - Alex Gonzalez's WAR is actually higher than Hanley's is this season. Obviously this has a lot to do with Gonzalez having a career year at the plate in terms of power.

Uggla and Hanley had decent years in '06 as rookies so with hard work the potential was there but then Fredi came in and cut down the time spent on defensive drills...

 

Was Uggla projected to be a good defender? His total zone for 2B in 2005 (minor league) was absolutely terrible.

 

There does seem to be some inconsistency with defensive numbers. For example, Uggla was -13 in 2007, +2 in 2008, -8 in 2009, and -8 in 2010. I'm not sure of the inconsistency is a problem with the stats themselves or if players can really turn it on that much themsleves. Nevertheless, the big picture for Uggla's defense has never been pretty.

Uggla and Hanley had decent years in '06 as rookies so with hard work the potential was there but then Fredi came in and cut down the time spent on defensive drills...

 

Was Uggla projected to be a good defender? His total zone for 2B in 2005 (minor league) was absolutely terrible.

 

There does seem to be some inconsistency with defensive numbers. For example, Uggla was -13 in 2007, +2 in 2008, -8 in 2009, and -8 in 2010. I'm not sure of the inconsistency is a problem with the stats themselves or if players can really turn it on that much themsleves. Nevertheless, the big picture for Uggla's defense has never been pretty.

It's more of a sample size problem than inconsistency.

And what do you know, within the last 5-10 minutes, Cano has had a 3 run double and Uggla hit a 2 run HR, after I compared the stats of them about an hour ago or so. Weird.....