Carter, Gortat, Pietrus, and Lewis out. Richardson, Hedo, clark, and Arenas in.

Not a bad trade by Phoenix

they lost alot of depth in the frontcourt but they needed to make moves to compete with the heat and celtics in the east. so are nelson and arenas gonna start in the backcourt with richardson coming off the bench or are they gonna try to trade nelson for frontcourt help

Richardson is starting.

I thought Turkolu was coming off the bench, with the others starting.

looks like it worked... Spurs and Celtics back to back. wowza!

Starting to get things together it appears. Always takes a bit of time to gel after bringing in new players.

Seems like the Magic didn't get any better from this; if anything, they got worse. Marcin Gortat seems to think he's a 20-10 per night center recently...coming off the bench.

Seems like the Magic didn't get any better from this; if anything, they got worse. Marcin Gortat seems to think he's a 20-10 per night center recently...coming off the bench.

 

 

16-10 before trade, 15-8 after trade.

I still like what Richardson brings to that team compared to any of the players that left.

 

They are an interesting team. If you have to double Howard, they are very, very tough to beat with all their shooters.. which is why Boston matches up so well with them. Early in the year, the Bulls doubled Howard and lost by about 30 and their shooters went bananas. A few days ago, the Bulls didn't double Howard, he went for 40, nobody else did anything and the Bulls won.

 

They still scare me as much as any team in the East.

No, we got better. The record doesn't show it but we started out slow because we needed to gel. I love the way Otis Smith made this team and I think we can be very dangerous in the playoffs.

Since the trades

 

ORL

Jason Richardson: 34.4 MPG, 14.1 PPG, .437% shooting, 4.2 reb

Hedo Turkoglu: 34.3 MPG, 11.3 PPG, .444% shooting, 5.0 reb, 5.4 ast

Earl Clark: 8.1 MPG, 3.2 PPG, .469% shooting, 1.0 reb

Gilbert Arenas: 21.9 MPG, 8.6 PPG, .370% shooting, 2.7 reb, 3.9 ast

 

PHX

Marcin Gortat: 24.9 MPG, 10.6 PPG, .586% shooting, 7.8 reb, 1.1 blk

Vince Carter: 31.8 MPG, 14.9 PPG, .426% shooting, 5.0 reb

Michael Pietrus: 19.1 MPG, 6.9 PPG, .382% shooting, 2.1 reb

 

WSH

Rashard Lewis: 36.2 MPG, 13.8 PPG, .466% shooting, 6.9 reb

 

 

How did the trades make the Magic "better?"

 

It wasn't really a matter of taking time to gel, either. After the little hot streak they had going, they're 6-6 in their last 12 games.

 

I also don't see how these deals make them better come playoff time.

 

1. Overpaid Turkoglu isn't the same guy.

2. Including Gortat in the deal means they have no size now. What happens in a tough series when Dwight Howard has a game or two getting in foul trouble, as it's happened in the past?

3. I'm not sure of their defensive #'s before/after the deal, but this trade made them worse, defensively. Aside from the size issue, Jason Richardson has had a reputation for always being pretty bad defensively, Turkoglu is slow and a clear defensive downgrade to a guy like Pietrus, and Arenas has just become a ball-hogging headcase, who shoots 37% from the field.

 

They need to make another move or two to acquire some bigs before the trade deadline, imo. I think the roster is rather dysfunctional.

I think they're better too. Richardson is better than Carter. Losing Lewis is no big deal because he isn't worth a damn. Gortat is playing well in Phx but I think Bass/Anderson/Turkoglu are a fine three headed monster at PF. Arenas is a clear upgrade over Duhon.

 

I think they're under the impression that they have the big man in the middle defensively so they need some scorers.. and like I said before, if teams are doubling Howard, they need shooters.. which they have a ton of in Arenas, Richardson, Redick, Turkoglu. About the deepest team there is.

 

I agree they may have lost a step defensively but they still have the most dominating defensive player on the planet.. and, IMO, they have a better, deeper, offense.

Since the trades

 

ORL

Jason Richardson: 34.4 MPG, 14.1 PPG, .437% shooting, 4.2 reb

Hedo Turkoglu: 34.3 MPG, 11.3 PPG, .444% shooting, 5.0 reb, 5.4 ast

Earl Clark: 8.1 MPG, 3.2 PPG, .469% shooting, 1.0 reb

Gilbert Arenas: 21.9 MPG, 8.6 PPG, .370% shooting, 2.7 reb, 3.9 ast

 

PHX

Marcin Gortat: 24.9 MPG, 10.6 PPG, .586% shooting, 7.8 reb, 1.1 blk

Vince Carter: 31.8 MPG, 14.9 PPG, .426% shooting, 5.0 reb

Michael Pietrus: 19.1 MPG, 6.9 PPG, .382% shooting, 2.1 reb

 

WSH

Rashard Lewis: 36.2 MPG, 13.8 PPG, .466% shooting, 6.9 reb

 

 

How did the trades make the Magic "better?"

 

It wasn't really a matter of taking time to gel, either. After the little hot streak they had going, they're 6-6 in their last 12 games.

 

I also don't see how these deals make them better come playoff time.

 

1. Overpaid Turkoglu isn't the same guy.

2. Including Gortat in the deal means they have no size now. What happens in a tough series when Dwight Howard has a game or two getting in foul trouble, as it's happened in the past?

3. I'm not sure of their defensive #'s before/after the deal, but this trade made them worse, defensively. Aside from the size issue, Jason Richardson has had a reputation for always being pretty bad defensively, Turkoglu is slow and a clear defensive downgrade to a guy like Pietrus, and Arenas has just become a ball-hogging headcase, who shoots 37% from the field.

 

They need to make another move or two to acquire some bigs before the trade deadline, imo. I think the roster is rather dysfunctional.

 

 

You're looking to much into it. Hedo/J-Rich are much better than Carter and Pietrus. It honestly isn't close. Hedo fits this team much better than Vince and J-Rich is a better player than Pietrus. And then you add the fact that Reddick and Anderson have both stepped up their game. This team is much better. We do need bigs, but that shouldn't stop us from competing.

I think they're better too. Richardson is better than Carter. Losing Lewis is no big deal because he isn't worth a damn. Gortat is playing well in Phx but I think Bass/Anderson/Turkoglu are a fine three headed monster at PF. Arenas is a clear upgrade over Duhon.

 

I think they're under the impression that they have the big man in the middle defensively so they need some scorers.. and like I said before, if teams are doubling Howard, they need shooters.. which they have a ton of in Arenas, Richardson, Redick, Turkoglu. About the deepest team there is.

 

I agree they may have lost a step defensively but they still have the most dominating defensive player on the planet.. and, IMO, they have a better, deeper, offense.

 

 

Plus, who needs Lewis when Anderson is balling the way he is? I mean, he's putting up some awesome numbers over the last month. Him and Reddick. All we need is for Arenas to adjust better to this team, and maybe another big, and we'll be fine. But like you said, we lost a step defensively, but offensively, we're packing heat.

I think losing Gortat really hurts the Magic, especially if they decide to not replace him.

Brandon Bass now being hurt also kinda sucks, as well.

 

As of right now, their rotation is way too small/soft. Ryan Anderson is not the power forward you want against opposing team's best power forwards in the playoffs. The team has no backup center. Dwight Howard played all 48 minutes against the Heat tonight. I don't remember the last time a player had to do that, much less the last time a center had to do that.

 

Also, I think some of you are overrating just how much better Jason Richardson is to Vince Carter, etc.

 

All in all, the Magic's plan was to improve significantly and contend for a championship to prove to Dwight Howard that he should stay in Orlando past next year.

 

With the current team, what you see is pretty much what you get. This trade gave them horrible contracts in Turkoglu/Arenas, and they lost a valuable backup C (Gortat), a friendlier contract in the likes of Pietrus (who is much better than Earl Clark, btw), and a 1st round pick.

 

I think they hurt themselves long-term, while not getting much better, (if not any better, at all), short-term.

I think we will replace Gortat. Otis Smith has said he intends to do so.

 

Ryan Anderson is plenty good off the bench. He's not asked to bang against the big men. Just do your job, which is to score. He's doing as good a job as Lewis was being the PF who can stretch the floor.

 

Richardson is much better. I don't think we're overrating him at all.

 

We got rid of bad contracts in Gortat and Lewis, too. You're really overrating Gortat. You complain about Arenas and his bad contract, but then mention Gortat as a valuable backup. He was being paid too much for his PT. Arenas at least gets the PT to bring energy off the bench.

 

I don't know why you compared Pietrus and Clark, and I don't see how you can say Pietrus is much better than Clark when Clark is only in his second season. He has some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he contributes more to us the Pietrus would have, this season or the future.

 

We MAY have hurt ourselves long term, but we definitely got better. We need another big, but we're better.

I think we will replace Gortat. Otis Smith has said he intends to do so.

 

Ryan Anderson is plenty good off the bench. He's not asked to bang against the big men. Just do your job, which is to score. He's doing as good a job as Lewis was being the PF who can stretch the floor.

 

Richardson is much better. I don't think we're overrating him at all.

 

We got rid of bad contracts in Gortat and Lewis, too. You're really overrating Gortat. You complain about Arenas and his bad contract, but then mention Gortat as a valuable backup. He was being paid too much for his PT. Arenas at least gets the PT to bring energy off the bench.

 

I don't know why you compared Pietrus and Clark, and I don't see how you can say Pietrus is much better than Clark when Clark is only in his second season. He has some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he contributes more to us the Pietrus would have, this season or the future.

 

We MAY have hurt ourselves long term, but we definitely got better. We need another big, but we're better.

 

 

 

1. What makes Richardson "much better?" Maybe someone with more knowledge on NBA sabermetrics or something can prove me wrong on this, but I don't see it. I think Richardson is the better player, but at the end of the day, it seems like a pretty even swap to me.

 

2. Gortat wasn't a bad contract. Maybe he wasn't as great a fit on the Magic, but he never was given enough minutes while in Orlando (in part because of Dwight Howard). I don't think he'd be scoring at the current rate he's scoring were it not for Steve Nash, but he was always an excellent rebounder/defender with the minutes he was given in Orlando.

 

I don't think they got better. As a matter of fact, I think the current Orlando team is basically just a better version of the current Knicks team.

Richardson is a better shooter, more explosive at this point in their careers and finishes better at the rim .Just an all around better player. Just what I see. I think his performance will go up as he gets more acquainted with Orlando offense. I do like how Carter has accepted his role wherever he goes now and didn't turn in to Iverson. Still a solid ball player.

I think we will replace Gortat. Otis Smith has said he intends to do so.

 

Ryan Anderson is plenty good off the bench. He's not asked to bang against the big men. Just do your job, which is to score. He's doing as good a job as Lewis was being the PF who can stretch the floor.

 

Richardson is much better. I don't think we're overrating him at all.

 

We got rid of bad contracts in Gortat and Lewis, too. You're really overrating Gortat. You complain about Arenas and his bad contract, but then mention Gortat as a valuable backup. He was being paid too much for his PT. Arenas at least gets the PT to bring energy off the bench.

 

I don't know why you compared Pietrus and Clark, and I don't see how you can say Pietrus is much better than Clark when Clark is only in his second season. He has some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he contributes more to us the Pietrus would have, this season or the future.

 

We MAY have hurt ourselves long term, but we definitely got better. We need another big, but we're better.

 

 

 

1. What makes Richardson "much better?" Maybe someone with more knowledge on NBA sabermetrics or something can prove me wrong on this, but I don't see it. I think Richardson is the better player, but at the end of the day, it seems like a pretty even swap to me.

 

2. Gortat wasn't a bad contract. Maybe he wasn't as great a fit on the Magic, but he never was given enough minutes while in Orlando (in part because of Dwight Howard). I don't think he'd be scoring at the current rate he's scoring were it not for Steve Nash, but he was always an excellent rebounder/defender with the minutes he was given in Orlando.

 

I don't think they got better. As a matter of fact, I think the current Orlando team is basically just a better version of the current Knicks team.

 

1. We don't need saber metrics to prove who's better. He may not be MUCH better like I said, but he's clearly better.

 

2. For us he was. He was a back up not getting much PT getting paid too much money. That is a bad contract for Orlando.

 

Agree to disagree then. I don't think NY stands a chance against Orlando/Miami/Boston/Chicago, the top 4 teams in the East, imo. Even with the hot start Felton got off too, they're still a team 3 games above .500.

Richardson is a better shooter, more explosive at this point in their careers and finishes better at the rim .Just an all around better player. Just what I see. I think his performance will go up as he gets more acquainted with Orlando offense. I do like how Carter has accepted his role wherever he goes now and didn't turn in to Iverson. Still a solid ball player.

 

 

I agree. He'll perform better with time. Carter in Orlando wasn't very good, despite his numbers. He took ill advised shots and killed momentum. Didn't feed the ball to Dwight enough sometimes. And his age.

But Arenas is getting backup PT at $20 million a year.

I think we will replace Gortat. Otis Smith has said he intends to do so.

 

Ryan Anderson is plenty good off the bench. He's not asked to bang against the big men. Just do your job, which is to score. He's doing as good a job as Lewis was being the PF who can stretch the floor.

 

Richardson is much better. I don't think we're overrating him at all.

 

We got rid of bad contracts in Gortat and Lewis, too. You're really overrating Gortat. You complain about Arenas and his bad contract, but then mention Gortat as a valuable backup. He was being paid too much for his PT. Arenas at least gets the PT to bring energy off the bench.

 

I don't know why you compared Pietrus and Clark, and I don't see how you can say Pietrus is much better than Clark when Clark is only in his second season. He has some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he contributes more to us the Pietrus would have, this season or the future.

 

We MAY have hurt ourselves long term, but we definitely got better. We need another big, but we're better.

 

 

 

1. What makes Richardson "much better?" Maybe someone with more knowledge on NBA sabermetrics or something can prove me wrong on this, but I don't see it. I think Richardson is the better player, but at the end of the day, it seems like a pretty even swap to me.

 

2. Gortat wasn't a bad contract. Maybe he wasn't as great a fit on the Magic, but he never was given enough minutes while in Orlando (in part because of Dwight Howard). I don't think he'd be scoring at the current rate he's scoring were it not for Steve Nash, but he was always an excellent rebounder/defender with the minutes he was given in Orlando.

 

I don't think they got better. As a matter of fact, I think the current Orlando team is basically just a better version of the current Knicks team.

 

Agree to disagree then. I don't think NY stands a chance against Orlando/Miami/Boston/Chicago, the top 4 teams in the East, imo. Even with the hot start Felton got off too, they're still a team 3 games above .500.

They would probably lose to the Hawks as well, even though they're pretenders imo.

I think we will replace Gortat. Otis Smith has said he intends to do so.

 

Ryan Anderson is plenty good off the bench. He's not asked to bang against the big men. Just do your job, which is to score. He's doing as good a job as Lewis was being the PF who can stretch the floor.

 

Richardson is much better. I don't think we're overrating him at all.

 

We got rid of bad contracts in Gortat and Lewis, too. You're really overrating Gortat. You complain about Arenas and his bad contract, but then mention Gortat as a valuable backup. He was being paid too much for his PT. Arenas at least gets the PT to bring energy off the bench.

 

I don't know why you compared Pietrus and Clark, and I don't see how you can say Pietrus is much better than Clark when Clark is only in his second season. He has some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he contributes more to us the Pietrus would have, this season or the future.

 

We MAY have hurt ourselves long term, but we definitely got better. We need another big, but we're better.

 

 

 

1. What makes Richardson "much better?" Maybe someone with more knowledge on NBA sabermetrics or something can prove me wrong on this, but I don't see it. I think Richardson is the better player, but at the end of the day, it seems like a pretty even swap to me.

 

2. Gortat wasn't a bad contract. Maybe he wasn't as great a fit on the Magic, but he never was given enough minutes while in Orlando (in part because of Dwight Howard). I don't think he'd be scoring at the current rate he's scoring were it not for Steve Nash, but he was always an excellent rebounder/defender with the minutes he was given in Orlando.

 

I don't think they got better. As a matter of fact, I think the current Orlando team is basically just a better version of the current Knicks team.

 

1. We don't need saber metrics to prove who's better. He may not be MUCH better like I said, but he's clearly better.

 

2. For us he was. He was a back up not getting much PT getting paid too much money. That is a bad contract for Orlando.

 

Agree to disagree then. I don't think NY stands a chance against Orlando/Miami/Boston/Chicago, the top 4 teams in the East, imo. Even with the hot start Felton got off too, they're still a team 3 games above .500.

 

 

 

 

1. I never denied that he was better; you're the one who said he's "much better." There's a difference; he's really not "much better." At the end of the day, if that's the best thing you can say about the trade, it's not a very good trade. Those two are both role players, who are both expiring contracts. Richardson will probably not even be in Orlando past this year, anyway.

 

2. Perhaps that was Orlando's fault that he wasn't getting much PT. As I said, in the minutes he got, he always proved to be a very good rebounder/defender. They could've used Howard and Gortat on the court together more often, especially considering that the team doesn't really have a legit PF. Gortat has proven recently that he's athletic enough to play PF.

 

I don't think NY stands a chance against Miami/Boston/Chicago either. I do, however, believe they could take the Magic to 6-7 games, before losing to Orlando. While the Knicks don't have anyone to stop Howard, the Magic don't seem to have enough bodies over the course of a game to stop Amar'e. And the Knicks can shoot/score with just about any team in the NBA; they just play no defense. Sounds an awful lot like the new version of the Magic, doesn't it?

But Arenas is getting backup PT at $20 million a year.

 

 

A back up getting extensive playing time. Gortat was playing for 10-15 minutes a game while Arenas is playing 25 minutes a game. Plus, we basically swapped Lewis's contract for his.