you really do

you really do

 

Well then, maybe I've discovered facts that some of you have not

Saltalamacchia and Hechavarria in the same lineup.

Dont get the fascination with Saltalamacchia. He aint very good.

Dont get the fascination with Saltalamacchia. He aint very good.

 

Yea, let's just keep Jeff Mathis. Hez gud wif yung pitherz!!!

Dont get the fascination with Saltalamacchia. He aint very good.

 

Yea, let's just keep Jeff Mathis. Hez gud wif yung pitherz!!!Based on what you want to give Saltalamacchia, keeping Mathis sounds better.

Dont get the fascination with Saltalamacchia. He aint very good.

 

Yea, let's just keep Jeff Mathis. Hez gud wif yung pitherz!!!

 

 

Jeff Mathis is terrible. But Saltalamacchia could easily go back to being mediocre at best. You are wanting to overpay based on one year when the track record before this year for Saltalamacchia shows a catcher who is not very good.

In what universe do you see the Marlins signing either one of these guys? 62-100 stinks but it's better then what was projected.

Dont get the fascination with Saltalamacchia. He aint very good.

 

Yea, let's just keep Jeff Mathis. Hez gud wif yung pitherz!!!

Jeff Mathis is terrible. But Saltalamacchia could easily go back to being mediocre at best. You are wanting to overpay based on one year when the track record before this year for Saltalamacchia shows a catcher who is not very good.

 

That's absolutely right. I have learned that Loria spending is rare, and to enjoy it while it lasts. IF he is willing to spend money to bring in a player like Salty I am all for it. You never know if/when he'll ever spend again... I don't really care how much it costs at this point.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone miss a point that bad before.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone miss a point that bad before.

 

I understood clearly. MY point is that I couldn't care less if he regresses, he's still going to be better than anything we have. Loria will be writing his checks, not me. What do I care if we overpay? It would just be nice to see him pay.

I'd rather just have Mathis play. Mathis is much better defensively, and you're saying this under the hopes that Saltalamacchia can sustain an OPS of .800 going from an extreme hitter's park to an extreme pitcher's park, which he won't. Hell, in TEXAS, he didn't even OPS .700 in his full time there.

 

His value, and what YOU would want to pay him for, is in his bat, which would regress terribly in our ballpark. With that, he'd still offensively better than Mathis, but Mathis would then become overall more valuable due to his defense and game calling.

I'd rather just have Mathis play. Mathis is much better defensively, and you're saying this under the hopes that Saltalamacchia can sustain an OPS of .800 going from an extreme hitter's park to an extreme pitcher's park, which he won't. Hell, in TEXAS, he didn't even OPS .700 in his full time there.

 

His value, and what YOU would want to pay him for, is in his bat, which would regress terribly in our ballpark. With that, he'd still offensively better than Mathis, but Mathis would then become overall more valuable due to his defense and game calling.

 

Mathis is a .180 hitter. Read that again... He didn't just bat below the Mendoza Line, he was not even close. He is like the worst hitter in Major League Baseball. I don't care if Saltys OPS drops .100 points in a year, it would be a world of difference.

 

I cannot believe some of you that are so quick to replace Hech but for some reason can learn to live with Mathis when he is absolutely the worst.

This is so irrelevant. Improve the catcher? Great. 98 losses. I would rather wait for an internally developed catcher or a really good one to hit free agency when Loria decides to spend.

 

This franchise has developed one good catcher in 20 years and even he wasn't that great (CJ). And there's no good catcher in the organization in sight, so if you're looking internally, you're looking for someone that hasn't been drafted yet.

 

By the time you sign Salty for three years, you can draft that next guy and develop him. And what really good catcher do you plan on waiting for that's just gonna die to sign with this team? At least overpaying for Salty wouldn't even be that much money. To get someone better, the marlins would have to outbid the rest of baseball, and that's if that player were to ever hit the market... (The elite catchers like Posey and Mauer seem to always sign extensions).

 

Basically you just said let's sign McCann. Which I would be all for if it were possible, but I think those odds are so low it's not worth discussing. I think a player like Salty has enough questions that a team like the Marlins could actually pick him up. Of course they would have to overpay, but such is life in FA.

No reason to overpay for a marginal player which is what Salty would likely be in Miami.

No reason to overpay for a marginal player which is what Salty would likely be in Miami.

 

When you have the worst catcher in baseball, I think that's exactly why you overpay for a player like Salty. You overpay when you have no other answers... The Marlins have no answers to the catcher position.

Again, defense and game calling. Salty's offensive production this year negates his defensive inability. He wouldn't have that here. He would not be worth the money that you especially want to pay him. 3/30? 10 million for three years for a non-defensive catcher who will regress terribly in a much bigger ballpark. I'd rather have Geovany Soto. He'd come cheaper for about the same production and better defense.

 

CJ would probably be a better option today than Saltalamacchia. You're just looking at OFFENSE, not the overall. "His defense does not matter" - is this your thought process? A catcher that can hit would be FANTASTIC, but he needs to be a Brian McCann to negate his defensive liability. Salty has never been and never will be a Brian McCann level offensive player. I'd rather have Mathis thanks to his defense and game calling for the next couple years.

 

Think about it, Salty in Miami would probably drop down to a .650 OPS. That's terrible, it's god-awful, AND he'd be one of the worst hitters in baseball while playing shitty defense.

I prefer Geovany Soto than Salty as well...it is beyond me to believe that the Red Sox are letting go of Salty, anyway I look at it, they are gonna offer him a bundle

Again, defense and game calling. Salty's offensive production this year negates his defensive inability. He wouldn't have that here. He would not be worth the money that you especially want to pay him. 3/30? 10 million for three years for a non-defensive catcher who will regress terribly in a much bigger ballpark. I'd rather have Geovany Soto. He'd come cheaper for about the same production and better defense.

 

CJ would probably be a better option today than Saltalamacchia. You're just looking at OFFENSE, not the overall. "His defense does not matter" - is this your thought process? A catcher that can hit would be FANTASTIC, but he needs to be a Brian McCann to negate his defensive liability. Salty has never been and never will be a Brian McCann level offensive player. I'd rather have Mathis thanks to his defense and game calling for the next couple years.

 

Think about it, Salty in Miami would probably drop down to a .650 OPS. That's terrible, it's god-awful, AND he'd be one of the worst hitters in baseball while playing sh*tty defense.

 

I am basing my argument off of the FACT that Jeff Mathis is one of the worst catchers in baseball (my opinion would be that he is THE worst, but fact is he's one of the worst).

 

You are basing your argument off the OPINION that Salty MAY regress some ridiculous amount in one year when the fact is he was one of the most productive catchers in baseball at the plate.

 

Do I think he will OPS .800 here? I don't know. What I do know is that Jeff Mathis, as well as our offense, is the worst in baseball. Our lineup needs to improve, and it starts at the catcher position. I am more than happy to keep Mathis here in a reserve role and help Salty with the pitching staff. But I believe it is worth the gamble to bring in his bat and try and improve a barren lineup. And I actually think, moving to the NL East and being a line drive gap-to-gap hitter, as well as entering the prime age of 29, Salty would hit just fine in Miami next year but I guess that's just my opinion.

Except this is his first year having an OPS over .800, and he's played in hitter's parks his entire career. He had an OPS under .700 in Texas. TEXAS. It's more a prediction than an opinion that he'd hit like s*** here. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that he is not a good hitter, and his "help" to this lineup would be minimal at best. You overpay for a game changer, not a guy who's playing above his level.

 

Mathis is not one of the worst catchers in baseball. The worst HITTING catcher? Yes. Worst at the position of catcher? No.

Except this is his first year having an OPS over .800, and he's played in hitter's parks his entire career. He had an OPS under .700 in Texas. TEXAS. It's more a prediction than an opinion that he'd hit like s*** here. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that he is not a good hitter, and his "help" to this lineup would be minimal at best. You overpay for a game changer, not a guy who's playing above his level.

 

Mathis is not one of the worst catchers in baseball. The worst HITTING catcher? Yes. Worst at the position of catcher? No.

 

Salty is a game changer when you consider the bat he's replacing. Mathis isn't just the worst hitting catcher in baseball... He's the worst by a wide margin. His defense is irrelevant because his bat is SO terrible.

 

We should just go with your idea... Let's sign Soto and go after that 1st pick again next year. Suck for Rodon!!! Go losing!!!

 

And you say signing Salty makes us a 98 game loser instead of 100. That may be so, but if you keep Mathis, you are committing to another losing season. Did you think a player like Nick Swisher could help the Indians turn around from 94 losses to the playoffs? We have the rotation, we have the bullpen. We really are just a couple bats away from being a pretty damn good team... But if you don't try to improve, you can't expect to improve.

Squall said that about the losses, firstly. We're going to have a losing season next year regardless unless everything goes right. We're not "committing to losing" because we don't get a better bat at catcher, which, again, will not be that good in Miami.

 

Nick Swisher was the only reason they turned it around, huh? How about Ryan Raburn having a season nobody expected? How about a breakout season from Yan Gomes? Jason Kipnis having a really good year? Brantley having strong numbers, etc, etc. How about their pitching? 3.82 ERA, ranked 7th in the AL. Scott Kazmir had a turnaround season, as did Ubaldo Jimenez. Justin Masterson had a good year. Joe Smith and Cody Allen being staples in that bullpen. But no, Nick Swisher was the reason they went from 94 losses to 92 wins. Yep.

 

Soto, overall, would be better than Saltalamacchia. He can play defense, career offensive numbers are better, and he'd be a lot cheaper. Salty made 4.5 mill in arbitration. Soto, same arb year, made 2.75 mill. Salty will marginally improve this offense. Marginally. He'll drop the defense down more than his bat would help the offense.

 

The team does need more offense, I agree, but Saltalamacchia is not the answer. Soto is not the answer, either, but I'd rather go with the guy that can actually play defense while putting up similar [or better] numbers. He's not a "game changer" just because he is replacing the worst bat in baseball. If that's your definition of "game changer," then let's put Solano behind the plate. Or Lucas. Whichever. They're both much better hitters than Mathis, thus they'll be game changers as the receiving end of the battery.

 

Those "couple of bats" may be in our system or already up, as well. You also have to go with the fact that Stanton sucked quite a bit, along with being injured. We had to start Donovan Solano, Placido Polanco, Ed Lucas, Adeiny Hechavarria, and Juan Pierre consistently. Two of those, maybe three, will not be in the line-up as consistently next year [mostly because I don't see Polanco or Pierre returning]. So that's something. Yelich put up some decent numbers, one has to hope those improve or stay consistent [.288 with a .370 OBP? Cool].

 

Or, of course, sign Abreu. THAT'S a game changer. Not Saltalamacchia, who you said we should go for at 3 years, $30 mill. Abreu would be the same cost about, if Loria is going up to $60 mill for him. Maybe even less per year. Trade Morrison for a catcher or shortstop, or both if a team is willing. Throw in Dunn and/or Webb, make it sweeter for the receiving team.

 

Bottom line - Salty isn't a game changer, regardless of the bat he's replacing, especially considering you're willing to overpay. We currently have Mathis under contract for one more year, with an option for 2015. We can keep him til then and improve elsewhere [the rest of the infield, particularly]. This team, as of right now, has a lot of black holes on offense [center, third, short, second, catcher]. We need to improve on three of the first four before really worrying about what our catcher does at the plate rather than behind it.

My comment regarding Swisher was more that the Indians, despite losing 94 games, recognized the talent they had and tried to build around it by overpaying for an average bat.

 

I actually agree that a couple of bats are in our system, I am particularly big on Dietrich. I also agree our infield is our biggest problem (obviously), but where we disagree is what positions are most important to resolve and how close we could be to contention.

 

I think if this team were to sign Abreu as a third baseman, keep LoMo, and add a catcher like Salty that the team could be ridiculously improved to the point of minimum 81 wins. I actually think that team would complete for the post season. You mentioned the Indians pitching as being a huge reason for their success with a 3.81 team ERA... Our team ERA was 3.71, and we were missing two starters for 2+ months.

 

I'm not expecting Salty to come in and be Johnny Bench, but accepting Mathis as a starting catcher is accepting failure IMO. At least Hech can hit his weight, get better with experience, and play solid D, I can live with that. Fill the holes at 3B and behind the plate with some offense and see how it goes, because this team needs offense at all costs.

Abreu, according to reports, is not solid defensively at first base. What makes you think he can play third?

Abreu, according to reports, is not solid defensively at first base. What makes you think he can play third?

 

He took grounders at third in his workout. Expected to be just as much of a liability there, but able to play the position for a year or two until CoMo comes up and LoMo is gone.