This team sucks.  not just the players on the field.  I mean the organization as a whole.  There is nothing positive about being a fan of this organization.  Our owner is a lunatic.  Our front office builds teams in the same manner that teams were built in 1980 and their philosophy for how we are going to win changes every year.  On top of that we are in the golden age for baseball analytics and we use it less than just about any other team.

 

Oh ya and our manager should be our general manager.  

 

Our lineup is plain and simple terrible.  Every aspect of it. We have no plate discipline.  We have no power aside from stanton.  Plus our lineup isn't deep at all.  We have 2 guys who can hit and 7 guys who can't in our lineup.  We have no idea how to build a team.  It is hard and not at all fun to root for a franchise that not only is continuously bad, but continuously dysfunctional as well.

 

 

What exactly does trading Ozuna solve? He's under team control until 2019 and is a competent 24 year old defensive and offensive center fielder having. Unfortunately this year he's having the same lack of power issues he had his rookie year in 2013. Again, he's 24 years old, which is usually when most players are in their first or second season. This is his third. Do we need better from Ozuna to be a good team? Yeah, but he's a piece for the future, not a piece to trade away for the future.

 

Re-signing Ichiro I agree with, and something I think the front office is going to try and do. The big question with him is whether he wants to go to a consistent playoff team and true contender next year.

 

I agree with trading Haren, Koehler, Latos, and Prado. I have no idea why you list both Dietrich and Prado. That would be as stupid as when we traded Hanley and Dominguez around the same time leaving us with no 3rd basemen. I agree with trading Prado simply because I want Dietrich to get a real chance. There's absolutely no reason to trade Dietrich. He's under team control for a while, finally seems to feel comfortable playing defense, and is still just 25 years old. We need to see how the rest of the season goes about, but I want Dietrich playing 3rd base the rest of the season and, if he succeeds (posting a .740 OPS or above) I want him starting at 3rd base to begin next season.

 

Haren and Koehler are the two guys we can probably get some actual prospects for. Latos/Prado would be the thrown in types that would diminish the return we get (simply because of the money and their declining abilities).

 

As for Cishek, I understand everybody wanting him gone given he's being paid far too much currently for his production. But I laugh when everybody complains about the team trading high or low on players, and then beg for the team to do just that. Cishek is a classic case. Going into this season he was a shutdown closer and would've netted a really good starter in return. He struggled for a while, and still isn't 100% back, but if you've actually been paying attention you'd see that he hasn't allowed a run in his last 5 appearances, and has a 1.50 ERA since mid May (12 IP).

 

Oh, but since he's closing people haven't been paying attention to Cishek's return to form. He gets called done for his very poor first 11 IP (which then led to him being demoted to middle reliever), and then nobody decides to actually note that he's been one of the few relievers on our team who's actually been good for the last month. While Ramos has been far too good to let Cishek take back over as closer, I want Cishek taking over the 8th inning if he keeps this up into July and then I want a competition for the closer spot in Spring Training. Trading Cishek would be dumb, very very dumb, and we wouldn't get nearly the type of value for the type of reliever he truly is. Plus he's 29. It's not like he's over the hill.

 

While the Stanton comment was likely in jest, I'm sure we'll win more than mid 50 games. We'll likely end up in the mid 70s once we trade the older players at the deadline and let some of the younger guys (Dietrich, Nicolino, Urena, Flores, Bour, Wittgren) start for the entirety of the season.

 

Also a guy I forgot about in the trade section would be Michael Morse, although we'd have to bite the bullet, take on the majority of his contract, and sell for some low A prospect just to get rid of him at this rate.

 

I suppose I should respond in order to respect the discourse...

 

I think what we have have is a case of moving the scale to fit the argument. I really don't want to go through the effort of recanting some of comments, nor do I want to say precisely who I would want to move and why...instead I wish to say we should move anything that isn't nailed down.

 

But...for the discourse...

 

You wouldn't trade them both, as you so eloquently put it, "That would be stupid." 

 

You trade Ozuna because what is the point of keeping him? We are not winning this year. Dare I say we aren't looking good next year without work either. He will get you a farm system. Also, you signed Yelich to a contract so you aren't going to trade him and his 'best swing in baseball.' Anyone else feel like you are watching Cameron Maybin all over again?

 

You trade Cishek because what is the point of keeping him? They are not signing him...because history. Backend pitching is in high demand. You can and will get an overpay for him. And who cares if he is controllable? So is a minor league prospect...For that case...sign any available free agent pitcher and trade Ramos, too. I would rather shoot for 2nd overall than pretend we are even in the conversation.

 

To be frank, I don't know why you keep anyone? Keep Jose in rehab. Send Hendy for surgery. Trade Cosart even. We are not suddenly going to get good. We all need to stop buying into this "we are a good young team" or "we will get better" mentality. There is no difference between us hearing about we are "Right there" and hearing about Yelich having the best swing in baseball. It just like when we heard about how Jesus Montero is a beast and one of the best prospects in all of baseball. How did that turn out? Great for the yanks...I would love Pineda on this team. Better than Cosart.

 

It's PR. Advertising. It's a business. The only difference is the Yanks use their PR team to trick other teams...the Marlins use their to trick their own fans because no one else is buying.

 

Please don't read into my tone...the internet makes it hard to sound like you are not yelling. The only thing that I am actually annoyed by is please...next time you need a transition for your next thought don't use heckling someone's joke...especially after you piddled a three paragraph diatribe explaining why you disagree with said person's comments...and especially if it is right before you conclude your statement by conceding that you agree with them in saying, "we need to trade our players."

 

 

I suppose I should respond in order to respect the discourse...

 

I think what we have have is a case of moving the scale to fit the argument. I really don't want to go through the effort of recanting some of comments, nor do I want to say precisely who I would want to move and why...instead I wish to say we should move anything that isn't nailed down.

 

But...for the discourse...

 

You wouldn't trade them both, as you so eloquently put it, "That would be stupid." 

 

You trade Ozuna because what is the point of keeping him? We are not winning this year. Dare I say we aren't looking good next year without work either. He will get you a farm system. Also, you signed Yelich to a contract so you aren't going to trade him and his 'best swing in baseball.' Anyone else feel like you are watching Cameron Maybin all over again?

 

You trade Cishek because what is the point of keeping him? They are not signing him...because history. Backend pitching is in high demand. You can and will get an overpay for him. And who cares if he is controllable? So is a minor league prospect...For that case...sign any available free agent pitcher and trade Ramos, too. I would rather shoot for 2nd overall than pretend we are even in the conversation.

 

To be frank, I don't know why you keep anyone? Keep Jose in rehab. Send Hendy for surgery. Trade Cosart even. We are not suddenly going to get good. We all need to stop buying into this "we are a good young team" or "we will get better" mentality. There is no difference between us hearing about we are "Right there" and hearing about Yelich having the best swing in baseball. It just like when we heard about how Jesus Montero is a beast and one of the best prospects in all of baseball. How did that turn out? Great for the yanks...I would love Pineda on this team. Better than Cosart.

 

It's PR. Advertising. It's a business. The only difference is the Yanks use their PR team to trick other teams...the Marlins use their to trick their own fans because no one else is buying.

 

Please don't read into my tone...the internet makes it hard to sound like you are not yelling. The only thing that I am actually annoyed by is please...next time you need a transition for your next thought don't use heckling someone's joke...especially after you piddled a three paragraph diatribe explaining why you disagree with said person's comments...and especially if it is right before you conclude your statement by conceding that you agree with them in saying, "we need to trade our players."

 

I like this guy. Post more.

 

 

For what it's worth, I'm all for trading one of Yelich/Ozuna for young pitching.

 

Why? This team desperately needs good young pitching.

 

Acquiring a corner outfielder in free agency as a stopgap is far easier to do. Then again, acquiring a 1B that can hit is usually not that hard and the Marlins have been failing at this for years so maybe we shouldn't be so confident in that regard either.

 

Either way, my plan would be to trade one of Yelich/Ozuna for pitching...probably Ozuna since he's a Boras client and unlikely to sign long-term. The OF kept becomes the CF'er and you acquire a corner OF bat in free agency. 

 

They should also consider selling high on the backend relievers if a team is willing to overpay. If not, keep them.

 

They should also consider not being cheap bastards.

 

 

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean, but I believe in you Vince.

 

the front office is to blame, plain and simple. 

 

 

For what it's worth, I'm all for trading one of Yelich/Ozuna for young pitching.

 

Why? This team desperately needs good young pitching.

 

Acquiring a corner outfielder in free agency as a stopgap is far easier to do. Then again, acquiring a 1B that can hit is usually not that hard and the Marlins have been failing at this for years so maybe we shouldn't be so confident in that regard either.

 

Either way, my plan would be to trade one of Yelich/Ozuna for pitching...probably Ozuna since he's a Boras client and unlikely to sign long-term. The OF kept becomes the CF'er and you acquire a corner OF bat in free agency. 

 

They should also consider selling high on the backend relievers if a team is willing to overpay. If not, keep them.

 

They should also consider not being cheap bastards.

 

I just want this team to build through legitimately good prospects and good veterans through FA's.  Not reclamation projects and overrated prospects.

 

This team so desperately needs a complete overhaul from the owner, to the front office, to the scouting team.  We suck as an organization.  Its hard to be as bad as we have been for 13 years now with the amount of great players we have had in that time.

 

 

Just like to mention I don't like brad Herbert hand.

 

 

Just looking at the free agent list and there are a few guys that would be huge additions to this team.  Of course we will never do that because someone else can't pay for your players if you sign them through free agency.  With that said: trading Ozuna and signing Justin Upton would be a huge addition for this team. Adam lind would be a good 1b signing if we can get him for 2 years and say, 20 million.

 

Gordon, Yelich, Upton, Stanton, Lind, Dietrich (3b), Hech, Realmuto

 

That would be an improvement even though Hech and Realmuto are still very tough to have in the same bottom of the lineup.

 

 

 Also, you signed Yelich to a contract so you aren't going to trade him and his 'best swing in baseball.' Anyone else feel like you are watching Cameron Maybin all over again?"

 

Not really no. 

 

 

if stanton is truly serious about winning and not about money, then I wish that he didn't sign the contract and walked to a winner....unless the Marlins were playing extremely well this season. he has 27 HOMERS but the team only has 30 wins. Plus he is stuck here with a very bad team. My ultimate blame: the front office

 

So, you're saying you feel sorry for Stanton because he's stuck with a very bad team?

 

We don't have to be this bad. Morse and Prado could have done better. Ozuna and Yelich too. Oh and Salty (remember him). And the injuries have been a killer. Oh and not appointing a proper manager. And Cishek suddenly sucking. And Morris not being 2014 Morris. And Stanton's 'slow' start. And double Solanos.

 

There have been some positives. Stanton post-May, Gordon, Ramos, Capps ... Cishek has done okay his last few starts, Phelps and Koeheler have been okay, Haren, Hech. Nicolino and Urena could have MLB talent. Jose is coming back.

 

I think we're a lot better team on paper than we are on the field. We just need some coaches who can make us better.

 

I think, when everyone is fit, our roster is capable of competing. The rest of the organisation kinda sucks, though.

 

 

So, you're saying you feel sorry for Stanton because he's stuck with a very bad team?

 

We don't have to be this bad. Morse and Prado could have done better. Ozuna and Yelich too. Oh and Salty (remember him). And the injuries have been a killer. Oh and not appointing a proper manager. And Cishek suddenly sucking. And Morris not being 2014 Morris. And Stanton's 'slow' start. And double Solanos.

 

There have been some positives. Stanton post-May, Gordon, Ramos, Capps ... Cishek has done okay his last few starts, Phelps and Koeheler have been okay, Haren, Hech. Nicolino and Urena could have MLB talent. Jose is coming back.

 

I think we're a lot better team on paper than we are on the field. We just need some coaches who can make us better.

 

I think, when everyone is fit, our roster is capable of competing. The rest of the organisation kinda sucks, though.

 

good post. I blamed stanton for a lot of things until a month ago, but even so, nothing is entirely one guys fault. I'm very upset with morse prado but specifically the front office. For someone has highly regarded as stanton, I wonder what he thought if someone told him "this year mazzaro hand solano and the other solano will be on the team and you guys will be expected to win 90 games" I really do feel bad for him and more than anyone, the fans. It's a shame we are succumbed to this shit

 

 

Mazzaro and J Solano are and were on this team only because of injuries and struggles (Cishek/Morris, Salty/Mathis respectively). To blame them for anything, to think the team is struggling because of them, and/or to think the Marlins actually are depending on them is flat out wrong. Neither has been used in important situations. Solano has been cut twice and Mazzaro will be gone very soon.

 

Same goes for Kendry Flores, Andre Rienzo, Adam Conley, and Reid Brignac. Guys like that are roster fillers who have little to no impact on a season.

 

If blame has to be imparted on a disappointing season you start with the starters and headline players that have done little to nothing which in turn forces a roster to turn to its filler players.