We're just still not good enough,you good and you win,you bad and you lose,baseball was just so simple.

 

 

We're just still not good enough,you good and you win,you bad and you lose,baseball was just so simple.

 

YEAH!

 

 

Seriously, the guy was not a top prospect. 

 

Eh if he didn't get injured he easily cracks the top 100 next year and perhaps the top 50. You can small sample size it or whatever but what he was doing was incredible and was being done by a dude dominating with elite stuff

 

The only reason that trade is somewhat stomachable now is because Paddack got TJ and his development is put on a huge hiatus. But there's a good chance Rodney's 2017 as a marlin will mirror his 2016 as a marlin and most of his career (aka he sucks)

 

The cashner trade had no basis in reality and was simply a trade to go "look we did something." The $2.5m was the cherry on top.  That trade has cost the organization 1.5 to 2 WAR from a RP in 2017 and was awful when it happened and even awfuler now that cashner has continued to be cashner and the marlins went full marlins.

 

 

For what it's worth, we'd be just as pissed had we acquired Hellickson considering he's been garbage since the trade deadline and he would've been a rental, as well. We would still be saying "fire Hill" had he traded for Hellickson. 

 

This. This is what I've been saying. Too many people now are saying fire Hill now because Rodney and Cashner have sucked. What if it would have been others or if Rodney and Cashner (especially Cashner) had turned out to be great?

 

 

Paddack might not have truly been a "top" prospect at the time, but it was still dumb to move him for Rodney given the Marlins' limited resources and the needs they had. 

 

They weren't going to get a "good" starting pitcher, but at least if they packaged Paddack for a SP they wouldn't have had to give up Capps.

 

It would be awesome if the Marlins still had Capps in the system next season instead of Rodney. It would make it much easier to trade Ramos.

 

 

I'm not even very enthusiastic about having Rodney in the pen next season. His fairly low price tag is one of the only things making it palatable.

 

 

This. This is what I've been saying. Too many people now are saying fire Hill now because Rodney and Cashner have sucked. What if it would have been others or if Rodney and Cashner (especially Cashner) had turned out to be great?

 

they didn't though which is a reflection of the FO's inability to decipher talent and improve the team. When you continuing make shit moves at the mlb level while depleting you're shitty farm even more you are not doing your job

 

 

Also, I don't think that Hellickson is great or anything, but he's the hotter hand and would have undoubtedly been a better acquisition for the Marlins than Cashner was. Cashner was basically subtraction by addition.

 

As soon as the Marlins dealt away Paddack for Rodney, they limited their SP options even if they wouldn't have gotten a "good" one.

 

 

Not really. He's been a mediocre pitcher his whole entire career. If you take away his dominance against the Marlins this year, he's just had another mediocre season. 

 

I'm guessing he also wasn't available since the Marlins did want him. If the Marlins wanted Hellickson as the guy, they didn't need Paddack to get him, I'm guessing. They could've just offered what they offered SD for Cashner. 

 

The Rodney/Paddack deal didn't prevent the Marlins from getting a mediocre SP like Hellickson. For what it's worth, we'd be just as pissed had we acquired Hellickson considering he's been garbage since the trade deadline and he would've been a rental, as well. We would still be saying "fire Hill" had he traded for Hellickson. 

 

I think this is wrong. Based on what I've read, Hellickson was certainly "available" but the Phillies just couldn't work out a deal that they liked. I think it's a stretch to say that the Cashner package could have gotten Hellickson as well.

 

I would have been less pissed about the Marlins acquiring Hellickson if they didn't have to give up Capps in order to do so.

 

 

Also and very key is if the FO had actually built an appropriate starting rotation before the season began (completely and utterly obvious they had no depth) then they wouldnt be in a position to trade elite talent for garbage to pretend like they made a move. Thinking that Cosart, Nicolino, Edwin, Paul Clemens etc could be mlb pitchers was a critical and obvious misstep so yeah, Hill needs to be fired.

 

 

But how would Hill have acquired meaningful depth without Loria allowing him to add payroll or something else like that? Seems like ownership is as much at fault as Hill with the depth issue. In many ways, Hill actually did have many depth pieces this year considering his restrictions. Not that they were all any good but there were names lined up as opposed to other years where there was literally no one. Koehler, Conley, Jackson, Phelps, Cosart, Hand, Nicolino, Urena, Flores, Clemens, Narveson, etc etc, is more "depth" than we've had in a while in terms of actually being people can start a game for us. To think that they'd all blow up and that our frontline rotation would have this much problems was almost too dire to ever predict. Literally everything went wrong with the SP so is that really all on Hill?

 

 

Every time I think I'm being too hard on the front office I think back to the Cashner trade. Can't believe they gave up Naylor...

 

 

But how would Hill have acquired meaningful depth without Loria allowing him to add payroll or something else like that? Seems like ownership is as much at fault as Hill with the depth issue. In many ways, Hill actually did have many depth pieces this year considering his restrictions. Not that they were all any good but there were names lined up as opposed to other years where there was literally no one. Koehler, Conley, Jackson, Phelps, Cosart, Hand, Nicolino, Urena, Flores, Clemens, Narveson, etc etc, is more "depth" than we've had in a while in terms of actually being people can start a game for us. To think that they'd all blow up and that our frontline rotation would have this much problems was almost too dire to ever predict. Literally everything went wrong with the SP so is that really all on Hill?

 

It was extremely predictable esp conley & jose on innings limits. See my pre 2016 season posts and see fangraphs marlins posts or anything of that nature. Anyone who looked closely at this team could easily spot they were going to have huge SP issues at some point in 2017. I just stupidly figured they had more sense than to trade one of their most valuable players for garbage and a few mil cash

 

And again if the time had any sort of analytics bent (and maybe this was more DJs fault) they wouldn't have traded disco for Latos or Martes for Cosart to begin with. Once more, shitty moves.

 

Or if they had not traded Grant Dayton or Dyson for scraps they wouldn't have such a big bullpen problem.

 

It's just a consistent stream of making shitty ass moves at the mlb level that hurt the team rather than help.

 

In this context, even the Chen move should be judged as such (I liked and still like it), but when you keep making bad moves

 

 

Paddack might not have truly been a "top" prospect at the time, but it was still dumb to move him for Rodney given the Marlins' limited resources and the needs they had. 

 

They weren't going to get a "good" starting pitcher, but at least if they packaged Paddack for a SP they wouldn't have had to give up Capps.

 

It would be awesome if the Marlins still had Capps in the system next season instead of Rodney. It would make it much easier to trade Ramos.

 

The Paddack trade had nothing to do with Capps. They could've decided to not trade Capps after making that deal. The fact the Cashner trade was stupid because they dealt Capps has nothing to do with the other deal. They are two different trades. 

 

 

The Paddack trade had nothing to do with Capps. They could've decided to not trade Capps after making that deal. The fact the Cashner trade was stupid because they dealt Capps has nothing to do with the other deal. They are two different trades. 

 

they both reflect a front office that consistently makes trades that make their team worse so there's that in common

 

 

The Paddack trade had nothing to do with Capps. They could've decided to not trade Capps after making that deal. The fact the Cashner trade was stupid because they dealt Capps has nothing to do with the other deal. They are two different trades. 

 

The Marlins couldn't have acquired Cashner without trading Capps. Or least it doesn't seem so.

 

I think if the Marlins had packaged Paddack with Naylor, they could have acquired Cashner without having to give up Capps.

 

 

The Marlins couldn't have acquired Cashner without trading Capps. Or least it doesn't seem so.

 

I think if the Marlins had packaged Paddack with Naylor, they could have acquired Cashner without having to give up Capps.

 

Seems likely only if marlins didn't take the 2.5m

 

 

Keep in mind people I said I was reaching for the white flag, I hadn't grabbed it and waved it yet. I still haven't given up.

 

 

Keep in mind people I said I was reaching for the white flag, I hadn't grabbed it and waved it yet. I still haven't given up.

If u didn't have such short stubby arms you could have already grabbed it.

Can you take me with you one of these times? Please?

 

Sure thing.