Admin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/2018/02/27/players-union-files-grievance-vs-rays-3-other-teams-over-revenue-sharing-spending/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 MLBPA needs to get its shit together for the next CBA then. They negotiated a deal that incentivizes teams to do what they are now complaining about them doing. Dont agree to a deal and then complain about teams running their business smartly in conjunction with those rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Players should also stop sucking once they sign their free agent contracts and maybe smaller market teams wouldn't be so scared to spend money on them. Exhibit A: [ATTACH]1791._xfImport[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 [No message] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THRILLHO Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 This writer on the Rays sbnation site thinks the Rays are spending at the same levels as every other team and he supports his argument quite nicely (using the best available information on hand for an outsider) https://www.draysbay.com/2018/2/26/17054394/tampa-bay-rays-payroll-salary-spending-dollar-dollar-bills-yall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THRILLHO Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yea I don't agree with the complaint. Stepping back to regroup and strengthening your organizational core for a more potent run at winning seems pretty competitive to me. I guess the union wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't lobbying for max dollars all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I understand its their job, but they need to negotiate the next CBA better than. Quit complaining that teams are using the rules to their advantage. Implement or advocate for a salary floor or something like that. Enough of the bitching when teams arent playing outside the rules at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yea I don't agree with the complaint. Stepping back to regroup and strengthening your organizational core for a more potent run at winning seems pretty competitive to me. I guess the union wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't lobbying for max dollars all the time not only that but teams shouldnt be forced to pay outside their means. Teams like the marlins and pirates will only ever be consistent contenders if they act like the small market teams they are and try to take advantage off the 6 years of team control to start a career as they possibly can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 This is stupid. However, Marlins year end payroll is going to drop a lot when partial seasons of Realmuto ($1.5), Bour ($1.5), Castro ($5+), Prado ($5+), Dietrich ($1.5), Maybin ($1.5), Straily ($1.5+), and Ziegler ($3+) are shipped out. Easy $15 million to dump right there. I still think I read they had an insurance policy covering half of Volquez, so this could easily be $20+ million lower for this year, and get Prado/Castro's money off the books next year which is another $20+ million. Looking forward to getting the 1 really good, 4-6 pretty good, and 6-8 C+ lottery tickets for this group. Burn it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'm filing a grievance because I think the Marlins payroll is currently too high. Seriously, why is Starlin Castro still on this team? you've asked this question a bunch and its been answered a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I've never gotten a good answer to that question. yes, you have. Lou has answered it a few times. You dont have to agree with it but its been answered numerous times. you're worried about his salary for a losing team and he's said multiple times that more than half of it likely wont be paid by the marlins this year when they trade him midseason and the lack of the free agent market has impacted the trade discussions for a lot of our remaining veterans to the point where the marlins feel like they can get more for him at the deadline when there arent a ton of free agents remaining. Clearly the marlins feel like the risk is worth it considering what the offers currently are and are willing to spend for half his salary until the deadline or whenever they deal him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 And im not saying that what they are doing with Castro on the team to start the year is right or wrong. Id have to know the current offers if there even are any and then look at the landscape of teams who could possible need a middle IF at the deadline and then assess the risk of him getting injured or something and having to pay all the money he is owed this year vs. the possibility of getting more than they are currently being offered. Just saying that there is an explanation for why Castro is still on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Lou also said at one point that his value isn't likely to increase much at all before the deadline because Castro is who he is. That's something I agree with because he's coming off a strong (one of the better of his career) year after two mediocre seasons. And it's hard for me to believe that there was no market for someone to take him, despite the slow offseason, considering that it certainly seems like the Marlins made zero effort to shop him. Denbo's remarks made shortly after the Stanton trade certainly sounded to me that the Marlins were set on keeping him as soon as the trade was made. There's just no real need to be spending $5 million or so to have him for half a season when they should be riding out Prado's contract and slot Anderson in at 3B. Dietrich also doesn't need to be an outfielder once some of the prospects are called up. There's just no need for Castro's services, so why have him around if you believe, like me, that his value and demand won't be much higher come July. So, no, I don't think anyone has satisfactorily explained why Castro's $11 million contract is still on the books. Again, i dont necessarily disagree with you. But what i said is a rational explanation as to why he is still on the team. I think the lack of a free agent market killed a lot of the trade market in general. I have no idea where you're just coming up with the marlins "made zero effort to shop him." Denbo might have said that, but didnt you also kill the front office for previous trades in which they publicly indicated that they are looking to trade guys? Perhaps they think his value sucks right now because of the trade market/weird free agency period and they might be able to get more when an injury pops up midseason and are willing to eat a little bit of money to take that chance, on top of the fact that they get an extra year of team control on Anderson if he starts the year in the minors for a month or so and can put Prado at 3b for that time and still field a major league caliber roster (for whatever that will be worth in a lost year). Again, I dont necessarily disagree with you, I just could see that being a reason why they dont want to just dump him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Honest question- if they dumped him now for nothing more than an organizational filler because that was the most they could get while getting rid of all his money, would you be cool with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Never. In fact, I think that whole premise of not making intentions public is completely ridiculous. Plain and simple, there were no rumblings whatsoever about the Marlins trying to move him. It certainly seems like they made no effort, although I doubt they hung up the phone if another team inquired. I feel like the main reason why the Marlins kept him is for depth purposes. I think they were a little too afraid of a possible 100+ loss season. Oh ok, I wasnt saying you did, i just couldnt remember if you were one of the people who did because a lot of people were crushing the marlins for doing that for Stanton. I agree that that shit doesnt matter and teams know who is available regardless. I disagree that they made no effort though, im sure they assessed his value and determined the costs and benefits of dealing him now vs. at the deadline. We'll see when the opening day roster comes out and how much they let service time dictate decisions, but I think Anderson might be starting off in the minors for a month to get the extra year and that could have been a consideration as well. I do think fielding a non absurdly bad roster might have played a role in keeping him thus far, but i really think the trade market just wasnt there because of the free agency hold up and they thus thought its worth taking the risk to see if they can get more for him when the deadline comes or a team has an injury. Also perhaps the service time thing with Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 [No message] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I don't know what his trade value is exactly. I don't like him as a player because of his shitty fundamentals, but he is a middle infielder with some decent pop. I think they could have gotten slightly more than "filler" if they actively wanted to trade him. But I don't think that if his value does increase by July, it would offset the $5 million the Marlins would be sinking into him during a season where the loss totals don't matter and a worse record puts them in better draft position. He doesn't have tremendous value, but he's certainly worth more than low level throwaways. Even if Anderson starts the season in the minors, that doesn't justify going into 2018 with an infielder on their roster set to make $11 million. Based on the rumors that have been circulating, I don't think the Marlins were actively set on trading Castro, Straily, and Barraclough. I get the impression that they never wanted to scorch the earth in a way that the Loria FO might have. They just wanted to move the biggest contract obligations and the guys who would net them the better prospects. Since I've been dragged into this, I just don't think they can trade him. Has Neil Walker even signed yet? Teams have their 2B already. An injury will have to open something up. I was personally hoping for the Red Sox, but they went for Eduardo and JD. I mean where's he going? Yankees - They traded him to the Marlins and king Gleyber is coming, Drury is around too Red Sox - Eduardo (Pedroia DL) Orioles - Schoop Rays - Non contending, no idea who is starting Jays - Travis/Solarte Twins - Dozier Indians - Ramirez/Kipnis Royals - Merrifield CHW - Moncada, and Sanchez was actually good last year Tigers - Non contending, no idea who is starting though Astros - Altuve As - Lowrie Mariners - Cano/Gordon Angels - Kinsler Tex - Odor Nationals - Murphy Phils - Hernandez Mets - Asdrubal/Rosario Braves - Albies Pirates - Harrison Cubs - Baez/Happ/etc Reds - Peraza Cards - Wong, and everyone else in their IF Mil - Villar/Sogard Giants - Panik Rocks - DJ Padres - Spangenberg, pretty much non contending Dodgers - Forysthe/Utley DBacks - Marte/Owings I see nowhere where it makes sense given optimism with what you got/letting a kid play. Someone will get hurt, suck (come on Dodgers and don't play Barnes at 2B!), or just needs a super premium bench bat/part time DH. They have to wait this out. I think his value is pretty close to Gordons - Neidert, C. Torres, and some flamethrower who can't throw strikes in A ball. A solid B, C+, and lottery ticket prospect Straily and Barraclough could be pretty valuable at the deadline so that isn't that annoying, but Castro (and Prado) really should be shopped out the second they get a reasonable deal. I'd love to see Dietrich and Anderson at 2B/3B come mid-May with Brinson, Maybin, and optimistically Ortega/Cooper/SVS competently handling LF until Lee and Sierra are up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I don't know what his trade value is exactly. I don't like him as a player because of his shitty fundamentals, but he is a middle infielder with some decent pop. I think they could have gotten slightly more than "filler" if they actively wanted to trade him. But I don't think that if his value does increase by July, it would offset the $5 million the Marlins would be sinking into him during a season where the loss totals don't matter and a worse record puts them in better draft position. He doesn't have tremendous value, but he's certainly worth more than low level throwaways. Even if Anderson starts the season in the minors, that doesn't justify going into 2018 with an infielder on their roster set to make $11 million. Based on the rumors that have been circulating, I don't think the Marlins were actively set on trading Castro, Straily, and Barraclough. I get the impression that they never wanted to scorch the earth in a way that the Loria FO might have. They just wanted to move the biggest contract obligations and the guys who would net them the better prospects. To add to that, I think it’s a bad look for a team who dumps their NL MVP, Ozuna, Yelich and Gordon because of salary concerns only to hang on to a $11 million dollar middle infielder. If you have to light the match, burn the whole effing thing down. If Castro spends 8 weeks on the DL near the All Star break, holding on to him this off season becomes a total disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 As @MarlinsLou pointed out, you need a team to trade him to and that doesn't appear to be an easy task. None of us know how hard they did or didn't try to trade him, but it doesn't look like an easy task on paper. FWIW I also wanted him to be dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 As @MarlinsLou pointed out, you need a team to trade him to and that doesn't appear to be an easy task. None of us know how hard they did or didn't try to trade him, but it doesn't look like an easy task on paper. FWIW I also wanted him to be dealt. But Jack, why didn’t they just take back a better prospect haul instead of the 11 million dollar infielder (in a reBUILD)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 But Jack, why didn’t they just take back a better prospect haul instead of the 11 million dollar infielder (in a reBUILD)? Yankees forced them to take money back. They wanted the fish to take Ellsbury but Jeter refused. He had to take Castro in the end. Yanks needed to keep their number down under the luxury tax threshold. By taking Castro, it likely did improve the haul back slightly. Yes I know the haul seems underwhelming, but the contract relief on Stanton long term was Miami's main goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The Stanton deal really isn't a problem, assuming they get another B and C+ prospect for Castro, get out of Castro's contract at some point, and Stanton opts-out so they don't have to send over $30 million. That backend contract is franchise crushing if he didn't opt out and had a performance decline and that needs to be acknowledged in assessing his trade value. Anyways, I think it'll be ok. I expect a lot of guys to be moved by July 31, and this whole discussion is "so they are spending an extra $15-20 million in payroll in 2018 until that happens." Practically, who cares? It's not like that money matters in 3-4 years and they probably still get a top 2-3 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Jeter had to take Castro in the end. That's so gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 There’s nothing wrong with Starlin still being on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgilCaine Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I read somewhere that they tried to move Castro, but would have had to pay 50% or more of his contract...and were unwilling to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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