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29 minutes ago, cyoung said:

Long overdue in my book. And just because it ain't hurting you, doesn't mean it didn't hurt a lot of folks. If I'm not mistaken, there's a number of studies showing that exposure to mascots based on native American imagery results in native American youth devaluing and dehumanizing themselves and their culture.

I know the old logo was tradition and maybe not meant to be mean-spirited, but excusez mon français, that's fucked up shit. No piece of cloth is worth a kid's self esteem. Hard enough to get kids to feel good about themselves without parading around these senseless mascots.

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11 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

Long overdue in my book. And just because it ain't hurting you, doesn't mean it didn't hurt a lot of folks. If I'm not mistaken, there's a number of studies showing that exposure to mascots based on native American imagery results in native American youth devaluing and dehumanizing themselves and their culture.

I know the old logo was tradition and maybe not meant to be mean-spirited, but excusez mon français, that's fucked up shit. No piece of cloth is worth a kid's self esteem. Hard enough to get kids to feel good about themselves without parading around these senseless mascots.

I don't care for the name change but this right here is as good an argument for it as any other. It's real tough to disagree with anything you've said here. Good post.

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9 hours ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

Long overdue in my book. And just because it ain't hurting you, doesn't mean it didn't hurt a lot of folks. If I'm not mistaken, there's a number of studies showing that exposure to mascots based on native American imagery results in native American youth devaluing and dehumanizing themselves and their culture.

I know the old logo was tradition and maybe not meant to be mean-spirited, but excusez mon français, that's fucked up shit. No piece of cloth is worth a kid's self esteem. Hard enough to get kids to feel good about themselves without parading around these senseless mascots.

I'm not saying I disagree with your arguments, but if something bothers me, I move on.  It has worked out quite well - I don't get offended or upset about what other people think.  The only people that are offended by this, or anything else,  are people that allow themselves to be offended.  (And I'm speaking to everything in life, not just the Cleveland Indians)

 

There is no goal line in this debate.  Regardless of what you do, or what you say, somebody will be offended in one way or another.  At some point, and I think we will all be much better off for it, people have to get over things.

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5 minutes ago, cyoung said:

The only people that are offended by this, or anything else,  are people that allow themselves to be offended.

This only applies to people who have no connection to this imagery and they're not the point. If actual Native Americans are bothered by this then it should be changed. Who cares what everyone else thinks. I'm not all about the rah rah rah cancel culture people who wanna complain about everything just to sound like they're smarter than everyone else, I can't stand that. My point is ask someone who this name really matters to.

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Anyways, now I read that the rebrand could come in 2022, they could still be the Indians in 2021 because they want to do the rebrand right and not just do a big rush job. I could see them modifying all the uniforms in 2021 to say Cleveland instead of Indians and just not say the word Indians as often but I sure would rather they not specifically be the generic "Cleveland Baseball Team" name. You can get around the use of the word Indians without committing to the generic name, I think.

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1 hour ago, cyoung said:

Regardless of what you do, or what you say, somebody will be offended in one way or another.

Case in point, some folks get offended when a team they don't care about changes their name. 🤷‍♂️

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

If actual Native Americans are bothered by this then it should be changed.

Back in June, the Cleveland stakeholders met with Native American groups to assess their name and brand. The name change appears to be the ultimate result.

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1 minute ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

Back in June, the Cleveland stakeholders met with Native American groups to assess their name and brand. The name change appears to be the ultimate result.

Good.

My only issue is that this has been a debate for decades and the organization just brushed it away. It took all the insanity of 2020 for them to act like they cared. So I'm not so sure that they really care or that they're just doing this for good PR, to say they finally did it, to act like they're suddenly so aware of social issues, and to shut up the complainers.

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7 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

“Cleveland Rocks”. 

I find this so cheap and overused. Is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame really that big of a deal over there? Do people in Cleveland even care about it that much? It's like if the city of Cleveland is known for nothing else but that one damn building. Also, the Rockies wouldn't approve of this name.

Spiders is the most logical fit as long as they stay away from minor league style angry cartoon spider images... Blues works really well and has a historical place and is a more subtle nod to the music connection... Steamers is such a winner in my book... I have no faith in any other "original" names.

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19 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I find this so cheap and overused. Is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame really that big of a deal over there? Do people in Cleveland even care about it that much? It's like if the city of Cleveland is known for nothing else but that one damn building. Also, the Rockies wouldn't approve of this name.

Spiders is the most logical fit as long as they stay away from minor league style angry cartoon spider images... Blues works really well and has a historical place and is a more subtle nod to the music connection... Steamers is such a winner in my book... I have no faith in any other "original" names.

I was just making a joke due to that song from the Drew Carey show 

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I agreed what was say above if NA are bother by the name and logo then take it off, but if only bothers white women with cats then NO. Also I wonder if NA knows the team name was picked due to the fact than a NA was in the team roster at the time and in honor of him the team adopted the name Indians

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11 minutes ago, el_gmac said:

I wonder if NA knows the team name was picked due to the fact than a NA was in the team roster at the time and in honor of him the team adopted the name Indians

This seems to have some truth to it but it's a bit of an urban legend at this point, and some think it was more of a mockery or a sarcastic reference to the Native American player. There's no real evidence that the team did it as an honor for him. But even if it's true it doesn't change that the logo and imagery became offensive even if the original intent was an honor. What kind of honor is it if you use insults to honor them anyways?

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4 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

If you're expecting those concepts to become reality prepare to be disappointed.

They aren't the Marlins we are talking about. They are the [Insert name here]. They don't exactly have a history of letting the fans down.

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48 minutes ago, el_gmac said:

I agreed what was say above if NA are bother by the name and logo then take it off, but if only bothers white women with cats then NO. Also I wonder if NA knows the team name was picked due to the fact than a NA was in the team roster at the time and in honor of him the team adopted the name Indians

Believe that story was debunked or just pretty much doesn't have the necessary proof. Not 100% sure though.

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6 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

They aren't the Marlins we are talking about. They are the [Insert name here]. They don't exactly have a history of letting the fans down.

It's not about the team. It's that logo and uniform concepts are made to look "really super cool" by brilliant artists and designers but then in reality sports teams tend to settle on something very different. When the Marlins had their rebrand a lot of people were disappointed at first and a lot of that comes from "really super cool" concepts that many saw at the same time.

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