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6. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Kinston Indians Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 170 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1) Growing up, Sowers and his twin brother Josh (who pitches in the Blue Jays system) were more into chess than sports. That may be the best metaphor for his approach to pitching?a match of wits. Sowers was brilliant in his pro debut, tormenting hitters with his smarts and excellent command of the zone with four pitches. Winston-Salem manager Chris Cron referred to him as a "comfortable loafer," and "sneaky" may be the best adjective to describe him. While most quality lefthanders get likened to Tom Glavine, Sowers is more like John Tudor, setting hitters up with pinpoint location of his secondary pitches and then blowing an average fastball by them. His best pitch is his curveball, and he also throws an 89-91 mph fastball, a slider with cutter action and a changeup. "He's just so polished," Cron said. "He just commands all his pitches well and finds a way to get it done. Sometimes you don't know how he did it, but by that time you're walking back to the dugout shaking your head." Anibal Sanchez was the #1 pitching prospect in the league by the way. I like Anibal more then I like Olsen by the way. Sowers is going to be the next Zito. Olsen.... who knows? Scouts say he is a # 1, yet his minor league record doesn't show that. I think that is important. I don't believe guys just magically get better once the hit the bigs. Johan is the extreme example, and I don't think it is wise to compare him to any double aa prospects. I just don't see it right now with Olsen. If he blows away a .88 whip and maintains the awesome K/9 and HR/9 like Liriano did last year in AAA, I have no problem admitting I was wrong, but I highly doubt he does that. You can believe in potential all you want, but what matters is on the field production in the end. Olsen has never dominated his competition. He has just been very good. I like him, but he does not project to be this monster # 1 starter everyone believes. I don't know where you get this Zito comparison. Where do you really? Fact is Sowers was already polished and he relies on control. Its very doubtful that he develops into a #1 but its possible. Though Olsen chances are still higher than Sowers. EVeryone in baseball also is higher on Olsen than Sowers. Now if that's your opinion then fine. But don't down grade Olsen or talk bad about him juts cause you don't like him. Facts are facts. 5. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp Age: 21 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-1 Wt: 175 Drafted: Vanderbilt, 2004 (1st round) Signed by: Scott Barnsby Background: Sowers became the 12th player to be selected in the first round of two June drafts. The Reds took him 20th overall in 2001 with little or no intention of signing him, and he went sixth in 2004, making him the highest-drafted Vanderbilt player ever. He held out all summer before signing for $2.475 million. His twin brother Josh is a righthander/infielder at Yale. Strengths: Sowers commands the zone with four pitches and goes right after hitters with an aggressive approach. He adds and subtracts from his fastball while mixing in a plus curveball, a cutter-type slider and a changeup. His fastball features good arm-side movement and sink from a deceptive three-quarters delivery. Weaknesses: He can?t overpower hitters with the 85-91 mph velocity on his fastball. He must further refine his changeup to put the finishing touches on his arsenal. While both of his breaking balls show tight, downward rotation, they can become more consistent. The Future: The most polished lefthander in the 2004 draft, Sowers should move swiftly up the ladder. He?ll make his pro debut in high Class A and could make it to Cleveland as early as 2006. 2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG Did Not Play?Signed 2005 Contract

6. JEREMY SOWERS, lhp, Kinston Indians Age: 22 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 170 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Indians '04 (1) Growing up, Sowers and his twin brother Josh (who pitches in the Blue Jays system) were more into chess than sports. That may be the best metaphor for his approach to pitching?a match of wits. Sowers was brilliant in his pro debut, tormenting hitters with his smarts and excellent command of the zone with four pitches. Winston-Salem manager Chris Cron referred to him as a "comfortable loafer," and "sneaky" may be the best adjective to describe him. While most quality lefthanders get likened to Tom Glavine, Sowers is more like John Tudor, setting hitters up with pinpoint location of his secondary pitches and then blowing an average fastball by them. His best pitch is his curveball, and he also throws an 89-91 mph fastball, a slider with cutter action and a changeup. "He's just so polished," Cron said. "He just commands all his pitches well and finds a way to get it done. Sometimes you don't know how he did it, but by that time you're walking back to the dugout shaking your head." Anibal Sanchez was the #1 pitching prospect in the league by the way. Sorry but lost alot of credibility here. First of all Phillip Hughes is a righty and not a lefty. As for Sowers, he is a finese pitcher which scouts compare to Tom Glavine. He also projects more as #3 and if everything clicks then a #2. Atleast you where right about Liriano though. tough crowd. Sorry I can't off the top of my head correctly identify every single A ball pitcher that I have read about. My apologies. Please explain to me how Olsen's 1.26 double AA whip is better then Sowers 1.01. Honestly. Minor league numbers don't tell the whole story. The minors are basically used to develop players. Stats don't really matter as much. Fact is Sowers is a college pitcher so he should be more polished than Olsen. He relies on control(which is great by the way) but what you see now is basically what you get in the future. Olsen on the other hand doesn't have bad # and is already nasty with potential to be nastier when he improves his control and change-up. Sowers is basically another Vargas but with less potential.

Defensive much? Almost all of baseball scouts have Lester and Olsen as two of the top lefty prospects in baseball... yet the Red Sox won't trade Lester for Reed... but the Mariners would just be stupid to trade Reed for Olsen? Give me a break. You obviously have something against him. Ill give you that Lester had better AA stats but Olsen still has better overall minor league numbers, something you're big on... not that minor league numbers even really matter in the first place. Not really a fair comparison since Lester played the whole year there.. while Mr Olsen got called up to the big show and threw a 3.32 ERA in 4 games started. You obviously have a vendetta against Olsen. Weren't you the one that actually said that he he projected to be a bullpen pitcher?! Yet almost all scouts think he is top of the rotation material? Ridiculous... Lester's numbers are very skewed from his 1 awful year in single-a. You also have it backwards, I do not have a vendetta against Olsen. I am realistic about Olsen. Everyone else here believes he is the top top SP prospect, when he is not in the top top class. He looks very nice, but the great ones have much lower whips, giving up way less hits and walks. Not to nitpick, but Liriano right now is the top lefty, and I would think Sowers and Phillip Hughes would be right after him. Olsen and Lester are certainly strong top 10 ones, but they aren't the top. As for the RP, yea that was me. The best possibly situation for Olsen if he is immediatly brought up to the bigs in 06 is to be brought up like Johan with the Twins. Start in the pen, and see if his 3rd pitch develops. SCOUTS UNIVERSALLY say he has troubles with the changeup, and he has control problems with his slider, but when it's on, it's nasty. If he is going to be a two pitch pitcher right now, let him come in for one inning and devastate lefties. If the changeup develops, or even if it doesn't, let him get in some work phasing out Moehler or Mitre in the second half. This is not an unrealistic projection. Sorry but you lost alot of credibility here. First of all Phillip Hughes is a righty and not a lefty. As for Sowers, he is a finese pitcher which scouts compare to Tom Glavine. He also projects more as #3 and if everything clicks then a #2. Atleast you where right about Liriano though.

Better option Jamal Strong - OF - Mariners Mariners non-tendered outfielder Jamal Strong. Strong deserved more of a chance than the Mariners ever gave him. Maybe one of the dozen teams apparently interested in Joey Gathright will take a look at him. He's not the defender that Gathright is, but he can run and he's currently the better of the two at getting on base. Dec. 20 - 10:41 pm et http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/jamal-strong.shtml Batting Statistics Order Baseball Data Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP Avg Obp Slg Ops 1999 U. of Nebraska NCAA 20 NCAA 53 217 66 75 9 4 0 32 34 5 26 21 4 4 2 0 .346 .422 .424 846 2000 U. of Nebraska NCAA 21 NCAA 59 236 59 71 4 0 0 29 35 7 37 18 7 5 3 1 .301 .406 .318 724 2000 Everett Nwest 21 Sea A 75 296 63 93 7 3 1 28 60 14 52 29 4 1 5 1 0 .314 .368 788 2001 Wisconsin Midw 22 Sea A 51 184 41 65 12 1 0 19 35 4 40 27 5 2 1 1 2 .353 .429 899 2001 San Bernardino Calif 22 Sea A 81 331 74 103 11 2 0 32 47 8 51 60 5 2 6 0 4 .311 .356 766 2002 San Antonio Tex 23 Sea AA 127 503 63 140 16 5 1 31 46 16 62 87 5 1 2 7 .278 .362 .336 698 2003 Azl Mariners Ariz 24 Sea Rk 2 7 5 5 0 1 0 4 3 0 3 1 1 0 0 2 0 .714 .692 1.000 1692 2003 Tacoma PCL 24 Sea AAA 56 210 38 64 6 1 2 19 26 11 25 38 5 0 3 1 3 .305 .390 .371 761 2003 Seattle Mariners AL 24 Sea MLB 12 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 0 2004 Tacoma PCL 25 Sea AAA 64 238 46 77 11 2 3 24 19 6 38 28 3 0 6 1 3 .324 .421 .424 845 2005 Tacoma PCL 26 Sea AAA 93 382 57 112 16 5 4 36 25 6 43 67 .293 .371 .393 764 2005 Seattle Mariners AL 26 Sea MLB 16 20 6 5 0 1 0 2 0 0 2 6 1 0 0 1 0 .250 .333 .350 683 MLB Totals: 2 years 28 22 8 5 0 1 0 2 0 0 2 6 1 0 0 1 0 .227 .308 .318 626 Minor League Totals: 6 years 549 2151 387 659 79 20 11 193 261 65 314 337 28 6 21 8 19 .306 --- .377 --- Not Gathright # but is the difference worth Olsen or any top prospect? I personally don't think so

Also remember this........ The Tigers tried to acquire Devil Rays closer Danys Baez before signing free-agent closer Todd Jones to a two-year, $11 million contract. The Rays asked for two top prospects ? right-hander Joel Zumaya and center fielder Curtis Granderson ? and a third minor leaguer. The Tigers would have been more comfortable trading players like center fielder Nook Logan and Double-A right-hander Humberto Sanchez. ... Just scary..... lol didnt you make that post already? still gives me chills.

With the range Gathright should have with his speed and Hermida is more then above average in RF we can live with a LF witha little weaker arm. So we will have a defense liability in LF who projects more as a DH who also happens to have a below average arm to go along with it. Gathright arm is also below average which means runners will tag up on us all day. Also remember this........ The Tigers tried to acquire Devil Rays closer Danys Baez before signing free-agent closer Todd Jones to a two-year, $11 million contract. The Rays asked for two top prospects ? right-hander Joel Zumaya and center fielder Curtis Granderson ? and a third minor leaguer. The Tigers would have been more comfortable trading players like center fielder Nook Logan and Double-A right-hander Humberto Sanchez. ... Just scary.....

Olsen and Gaby for Gomes and Gathright? think that is a little better then giving up Pettit too. I think Gaby has a lower ceiling and not as far along as pettit. I agree Gaby has a bit lower ceiling, but he could very well turn out better. He's younger and who knows. But honestly, if it took Petit to get the deal done--git r done. I dont see the Marlins trading what arguably was the centerpiece in the Delgado trade Ah I hate when players are valued based on who they were dealt for. It's all about pride when you incorporate such tactics. And the centerpiece for the Delgado trade wasn't Petit--it was Jacobs. Wrong it was Petit. We definitely had this conversation a couple days ago. It was originally Jacobs and Milledge. But then it changed to Jacobs and Petit. Jacobs was the centerpiece. Petit!!!!!!!!!

Olsen and Gaby for Gomes and Gathright? think that is a little better then giving up Pettit too. I think Gaby has a lower ceiling and not as far along as pettit. I agree Gaby has a bit lower ceiling, but he could very well turn out better. He's younger and who knows. But honestly, if it took Petit to get the deal done--git r done. I dont see the Marlins trading what arguably was the centerpiece in the Delgado trade Ah I hate when players are valued based on who they were dealt for. It's all about pride when you incorporate such tactics. And the centerpiece for the Delgado trade wasn't Petit--it was Jacobs. Wrong it was Petit.

11. JONNY GOMES, of, Durham Bulls (Devil Rays) Age: 24 Ht: 6-1 Wt: 200 B-T: R-R Drafted/Signed: Devil Rays '01 (18) The biggest reason for Gomes' surge this year was simple: improved recognition on breaking pitches. The Devil Rays sent Gomes to the Mexican Pacific League last offseason so he could get a better handle on breaking stuff, and he responded by winning BA's Winter Player of the Year award. Gomes continued to hit back in the United States, tearing up the International League for two months and proving he belonged in the majors when Tampa Bay finally gave him a chance. He always has possessed the bat speed and power to knock the ball out of any park, though his swing can get long at times. He doesn't offer much in the way of speed or arm strength, and he's rough defensively as a corner outfielder.

Gomes # for those who only followed him last year. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/jonny-gomes.shtml Batting Statistics Order Baseball Data Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP Avg Obp Slg Ops 2001 Princeton App 20 Tb Rk 62 206 58 60 11 2 16 44 15 4 33 73 .291 .597 2002 Bakersfield Calif 21 Tb A 133 446 102 123 24 9 30 72 15 3 91 173 31 6 0 1 4 .276 .431 .572 1003 2003 Orlando Sou 22 Tb AA 120 442 68 110 28 3 17 56 23 2 53 148 16 1 0 4 5 .249 .348 .441 789 2003 Durham IL 22 Tb AAA 5 19 2 6 2 1 0 1 0 0 2 5 2 0 0 0 0 .316 .435 .526 961 2003 TB Devil Rays AL 22 Tb MLB 8 15 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 1 0 0 0 0 .133 .188 .200 388 2004 Durham IL 23 Tb AAA 114 390 73 100 27 1 26 78 8 5 51 136 22 0 0 7 6 .256 .368 .531 899 2004 TB Devil Rays AL 23 Tb MLB 5 14 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 0 0 .071 .133 .071 204 2005 Durham IL 24 Tb AAA 45 162 34 52 13 0 14 46 7 1 30 44 .321 .446 .660 1106 2005 TB Devil Rays AL 24 Tb MLB 101 348 61 98 13 6 21 54 9 5 39 113 14 1 1 5 6 .282 .372 .534 906 MLB Totals: 3 years 114 377 62 101 14 6 21 55 9 5 40 125 15 1 1 5 6 .268 .357 .504 861 Minor League Totals: 5 years 479 1665 337 451 105 16 103 297 68 15 260 579 71 7 0 12 15 .271 --- .539 --- MLB Average: 3 years 161 535 88 143 19 8 29 78 12 7 56 177 21 1 1 7 8 .268 .357 .504 861 His scouting report is basically this: projects as a DH, bad defense OF, long swing, leads to alot of K's, big time power Again I rather not deal with the Rays

Olsen and Petit for for Gomes and Gathright Again I rather not trade with the Devil Rays. Read the paragraph below the Gathright one. "The Tigers tried to acquire Devil Rays closer Danys Baez before signing free-agent closer Todd Jones to a two-year, $11 million contract. The Rays asked for two top prospects ? right-hander Joel Zumaya and center fielder Curtis Granderson ? and a third minor leaguer. The Tigers would have been more comfortable trading players like center fielder Nook Logan and Double-A right-hander Humberto Sanchez. ... Olsen and Petit for for Gomes and Gathright no comment..... :banghead

Umm why is everyone finding this out today? to me it seems some people here can't either think for themselves, don't have commmon sense or just can't make up your minds.

Ron Villone - R - Yankees Yankees acquired LHP Ron Villone from the Marlins for LHP Ben Julianel. The Marlins just gave up one of their best prospects, Yorman Bazardo, for Villone in July. Now the Yankees are getting him for a reliever they never deemed worthy of a 40-man roster spot. Villone isn't very good -- poor command has prevented him from posting a sub-4.00 ERA in any season since 1997 -- but as a second lefty/middle reliever, he's worthy of a roster spot. The Yankees will pay him $2 million and he'll be a free agent next winter. Dec. 16 - 5:10 pm et Ben Julianel - R - Marlins Marlins acquired LHP Ben Julianel from the Yankees for LHP Ron Villone. Pathetic. Anyone who wanted Julianel could have taken him in last week's Rule 5 draft. The 26-year-old had a 3.90 ERA and a 106/50 K/BB ratio in 87 2/3 IP for Double-A Trenton last season. The Marlins are now in line to make a big profit next season, so they certainly could have held on to Villone and waited for his market value to go back up. Every other trade GM Admin Beinfest has made has been defensible, but this is just ridiculous. Even worse was that the Marlins didn't offer arbitation to Todd Jones because they didn't want the draft picks. Bud Selig should have stepped in by now. "Even worse was that the Marlins didn't offer arbitation to Todd Jones because they didn't want the draft picks. Bud Selig should have stepped in by now" Like I said Wow...you're a freakin' genius. Looks like we have anther "expert" on the board. :whistle lol

Ron Villone - R - Yankees Yankees acquired LHP Ron Villone from the Marlins for LHP Ben Julianel. The Marlins just gave up one of their best prospects, Yorman Bazardo, for Villone in July. Now the Yankees are getting him for a reliever they never deemed worthy of a 40-man roster spot. Villone isn't very good -- poor command has prevented him from posting a sub-4.00 ERA in any season since 1997 -- but as a second lefty/middle reliever, he's worthy of a roster spot. The Yankees will pay him $2 million and he'll be a free agent next winter. Dec. 16 - 5:10 pm et Ben Julianel - R - Marlins Marlins acquired LHP Ben Julianel from the Yankees for LHP Ron Villone. Pathetic. Anyone who wanted Julianel could have taken him in last week's Rule 5 draft. The 26-year-old had a 3.90 ERA and a 106/50 K/BB ratio in 87 2/3 IP for Double-A Trenton last season. The Marlins are now in line to make a big profit next season, so they certainly could have held on to Villone and waited for his market value to go back up. Every other trade GM Admin Beinfest has made has been defensible, but this is just ridiculous. Even worse was that the Marlins didn't offer arbitation to Todd Jones because they didn't want the draft picks. Bud Selig should have stepped in by now. "Even worse was that the Marlins didn't offer arbitation to Todd Jones because they didn't want the draft picks. Bud Selig should have stepped in by now" Like I said

West strike out rate was not insane by any means. He also only tops out at 93 mph right now. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil..._pbp&pid=476811 40 K's in 38 innings (I thought I saw 31, but it was 38.1...what a difference a decimal point makes) and a 2.35 ERA as an 18 year old is pretty darn impressive. Thats only rookie ball though. He did not do so well when we faced the college hitters. Here is his scouting report. 8. SEAN WEST, lhp, Marlins Age: 19 Ht: 6-8 Wt: 195 B-T: L-L Drafted/Signed: Marlins '05 (1) The 6-foot-8 West is surprisingly athletic for his size, with moves like a basketball player. He's adept at holding runners and fielding his position. His stuff is close to Volstad?s, but he lacks Volstad's mound presence and pitching knowledge. West?s fastball ranged from 88-90 mph, with a high of 92. He moved it in and out well and the pitch looked faster because it got on hitters quickly. West drew comparisons to Randy Johnson because of his size and three-quarters release point. His slider was especially tough on lefthanders and was an effective backdoor offering against righties. He also gets good deception on his curveball.

All other things equal, Allison probably has as high a cieling as any pitcher we've ever drafed, possibly even higher than Beckett's given Allison's absurd senior year in high-school (no earned runs and close to 200 K's...you've got to be kidding me). Olsen compares quite favorably to Scott Kazmir as a youngin' and more likely could fill out as a Randy Johnson-type. Sanchez could be a fireballer like Beckett...could be. Serious injury (nerve damage) worries me. In no way is Volstad a #1, he's a control freak, middle of the rotation kind of guy, he isn't going to over-power you. Johnson is a Brad Penny clone, not a Carl Pavano clone. In terms of talent, West is probably up there with Olsen, profiles as a #1 and even with his incredibly raw stuff, his strikeout numbers were insane last year. A K/9 close to 11. I don't love Pinto like some, he's had to repeat AA too many times. Repeating AA is like repeating 5th grade, it happens sometimes, but it isn't a good sign for things to come. Plus, he's got control issues. He's supposedly got a plus breaking ball, I think he may end up as a specialist, at best. Tucker and Tank also probably move to the 'pen. And for the record, I want to see Petit in a Marlins uniform, he's too damn intriguing to miss out on seeing what unfolds with him. I'd be disappointed if he's traded, but I can understand that he probably should be the first to go given the return we can get for him, and the risk associated with him. I strongly disagree on Olsen filling out like Randy Johnson. The only thing Johnson and Penny have in common is either the high school or home state. Stuuf wise he is a Carl Pavano. i have scouting reports to prove that. West strike out rate was not insane by any means. He also only tops out at 93 mph right now.

Beggers can't be choosey. I'll take him. I agree if he is cheap I say go for it. Has quite a bit of experience and can always be dealt near the trade deadline. We can't offer the Wagner's and Ryan's. But the guys like Tood Jones and Bneitez when nobody seems to be high on them seem to do pretty good here.

Based on current stuff(pitching) the list should look like this: Scott Olsen Anibal Sanchez Dontrelle Willis Renyel Pinto Chris Volstad Jason Vargas Jeff Allison Josh Johnson Sean West Ricky Nolasco Aaron Thompson Yusmeiro Petit Taylor Tankersley Gaby Hernandez Ryan Tucker Potential. Bases on height, age, frame, control, experience, # of pitch depth. 1)Jeff Allison- almost died, didn't have his usual control or velocity, basically skipped rookie ball, hadn't played in 2 years, didn't face that good of a competition in high school cause played baseball in the north. Yet still more than held his own in the Sally League. If ne regains his 93-97 velocity, control, and breaking pitch. #1 Potential. Comparison: Josh Beckett 2)Anibal Sanchez- not polished yet, with limited action cause of TJ but already has 2 plus pitches(FB and C-Up) if only improves Curveball command he is no worse than a #2 with potential for #1. Comparison: Not sure 3)Scott Olsen- 2 plus pitches(FB and SL) needs only to improve command and alittle bit the Change-up. With that #1. Comparison: Scott Kazmir but a notch below 4)Dontrelle Wilis- not much to say. is only rank this low cause he of the funky delivery and doesn't have the stuff the guys in the top have. Based on batting avg against and K's. Currently #1 5)Chirs Voldstad- doesn't have the stuff the guys in top have or some guys below him but has 2-3 average pitches already. So high in the list cause of age and frame. At 6-7 and only 195 scout believe he can add 2-4 more miles of fastball velocity. Tops at 95 currently but is usually more in the 89-92 range. As of now comparison: Steve Tracshall. If grows into his body or fills that frame of his then sky is the limit. Now #3 could be #1 6)Josh Johnson- still young, constanly improving, huge frame, good body. Comparison: Carl Pavano #2 7)Sean West- tall lefty 6-8 but only 195. Stuff close to Voldstad but from the left size and the control. Very raw. Like Voldstad sky is limit. Comparison: Not sure 8)Renyel Pinto- Trust me when I say this similar stuff to Johan Santana. 2-3 above average pitches. Mainly 2 though. 92-94 FB, wicked change-up, and same goes for his slider at times. Major problem throwing strikes. Not able to set up pitches cause of it. Ranks where he is at cause I don't feel he is gonna fix the problem. Potentail could be anything. If everything clicks. Johan Santana/Al leiter cross. If it clicks half way then he is a Author Rhodes. If stays the same journey man. 9)Aaron Thompson- Very polished like Voldstad but a lefty. Frame is almost filled, can still get better though. Comparisons: Al Leiter/Randy Wolf/Cliff Lee cross #2 10)Yusmeiro Petit- can throw 4 pitches for strikes any time he wants and most of them of them are above average. Problem is they are all above average cause he hides the ball very good, control, and delivery. Like Willis this hurts his stock. Also like Willis hasn't proven at every level that he can pitch in the big's. Was rough up in his first 3 AAA starts but in his 4th had a 14 K game I believe. Could have been a result of nerves and innings. Comparison: Greg Maddux/Livan Hernandez cross Potential varias from #1-4 11)Jason Vargas- stuff wise what you see is what you get. Hasn't been a full time pitcher much time but doesn't show it. Can improve a tab but by experience. Comparison: Randy Wolf #2 12)Ricky Nolasco- not much room for improvement. Very good control of 3 pitches. All of which are average atleast. He is like a poor's man Josh Johnson. Comparison: Jeff Suppan #3-4 13)Gaby Hernandez- probably the most polished high school pitched from the 2004 class. Has a very good sinking FB and above average change-up. Since his 2 other pitches are not that superier, he is polish already, and doesn't miss wood as much as you like he is gonna have to improve his curveball. If he doesn't improve the curve to atleast average then he is a future reliver. If he does ceiling is a #3 but more can't be ruled otherwise. Like a Righty Jason Vargas but with more experience. Comparison: ? 14)Ryan Tucker- many will argue with me on why he is so low in the ranking but the answer is simple. He only has 1 pitch. It is a very good one but that won't get you anywhere. He has the bets fastball in the system probably including the major league ball club as well. A 95-97 mph fastaball with incredible movement. But since his change-up and slider are well below average hitters just sit on his fastball. Future is probably as a closer. Comparison: Billy Koch 15)Taylor Tankersley- injuries last season and the move to the bullpen has hurt his stock quite a bit. Not locked as a frontline starter anymore. Tankersly has a above average slider and about average fastball in the 90-93 range. I see him as verstile, swing man, bulldog pitcher out of the pen. Comparison: Al Leiter/Ron Villone cross (both in there better days) Of course I did not give scouting reports on Jacoby Marceaux, Paul Mildren, Matt Goyen, Logan Kensing, Travis Bowyer, Chris Resop, Jose Garcia...and some others but if you want I can provide you with some info about them. I know the the farm system pretty well

I like the signing's

It's almost not worth arguing. Encarnacion, by most media accounts, quit on the Marlins last season. It isn't about comparing him to JJ, it's about not being willing to take the risk that that Enc would wind back on the roster. through the arbitration process Where's he going to play in any event? Certainly not right field, everyone from Brickell to Bejing to Botswana knows Hermida has that position locked up. CF? Maybe. But you have to ask yourself, do you really want a guy who quit on his team infecting the new kids and being paid way out of proportion for doing so? So, the price we pay for being risk adverse is giving up a draft pick. I respect your beliefs, but for me it's no big deal. Im pretty sure Juan E knows he doesn't fit long term or short term with the fish which is another reason he doesn't accept arbitration. Does he want to risk not getting playing time at the expensive of guys like Williangham, Aguila, Reed, Dillion etc.. that by itself doesn't send a good signal to other gm's andreceiving negative treatment from the FO for accepting arbitration and the media if it is true he gave up on the Marlins. I find it hard to believe it takes a one year deal to return to the fish for likely a 1year - 6million where he can easily get elsewhere 3 for 16-18 or 2 for 12-14. Juan E is not in the same boat with guys like Kevin Millwood, Greg Maddux where they hae a pretty good history of success and can gamble on accepting arbitration and banking on having a good season. But everyone has there beliefs. These are mines. To me the only reason this didn't happen is simple. $$$$$$$$

I hear what you all are saying, but there are a bunch of teams bidding for him, he can't be as useless as you all are painting him. By no means is Gathright useless but no way in hell is he worth a Olsen, Sanchez, Petit, Vargas, Johnson and I wouldn't even trade Allison for him either as unproven as he is. If we could get him for what he is worth which is Mitre, Kensing, Bostick then fine. More bads news The Dodgers have offered contracts to both Kenny Lofton and Reggie Sanders, according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal. They must not like their chances of signing Johnny Damon. Lofton is deciding between the Dodgers and Diamondbacks, with the Orioles running third, a source close to the negotiations told Rosenthal. Sanders isn't as close to making a decision. Dec. 14 - 1:10 pm et Maybe the rays are still asking for to much so they ain't interested anymore? More bad and good news Joey Gathright - OF - Devil Rays The Rays are getting closer to a Joey Gathright trade, with the Marlins, Dodgers and an undisclosed club emerging as the primary suitors. The Marlins are reportedly willing to part with left-hander Scott Olsen, which doesn't sount like a good idea to us. The Dodgers also have plenty of young pitching to offer. Chad Billingsley won't be available, but Edwin Jackson, Jonathan Broxton or Justin Orenduff might be. The bad it is being mentioned. the good rotoworld.com agree with us.

Offering arbitration to Encarnacion? (As a figure of speech, not personal) You have to be out of your mind. The risk of JE asking for and winning $5+ million is too great to take the chance. As for Jones, you may be right. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/jacque-jones.shtml http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/E/j...carnacion.shtml Compare the # not that big of a difference. Juan E also has a better arm likely also a better OF defensively, more versitile and for the last 3-4 season has played in one of the best pitchers ball parks in the major's. Yes I don't like him but when Jacque Jones declines arbitration cause he has 3 year offers on the table I believe not offering Juan E arbi is unacceptable. Jones should have been a no brainer.

Being a "bullpen" pitcher is not a sign you aren't good. I guess to you, since Hutson Street is a BULLPEN pitcher, or Jesse Crain is a BULLPEN pitcher, that doesn't mean they have value. Olsen can be really really good in this role. Maybe you haven't seen him pitch. You'll get your chance if they don't move him. Trading Anibal, Petit, Bowyer, Tyler, or Gaby right after you got them tells me you didn't want them in the first place. This organization knows all about Olsen and JJ, that's why if they want to trade them, you should trust their opinion because they have seen A LOT of those players and can project them much better then the new kids. Nothing is a sure thing with these guys. Hermida is the only prospect they have anywhere where you can say, that kid is just going to be awesome without a doubt. And for guy w/ scouting report. Thanks for backing up my statement that he is a TWO PITCH pitcher. Look, he's gonna be good. But I think you guys are OVER valueing you him thinking he is going to be this insane Beckett level pitcher, when it is doubtful he will. Disagree if you want, but I think it's totally worth it. You are getting value in return. Gathright is not a bum. And maybe they aren't in a "hurry" to win in 2006, but you have to build and be competitive. Playing Aguila, Reed/Abercrombie, and Wilson is giving up before the year even starts. The organizations top need is a young, cheap, OF who can bat leadoff. It's going to be hard to find a guy like that over Gathright. You will have to give up 3 guys, all pitchers, to get Jeremy Reed if those rumors of him actually being shopped are true. What is a two pitch pitcher? cause Olsen has a change-up its just not as good as his nasty slider and his mid 90 FB so he doesn't use it enough but its there. By the way he is only 21. What are the minor's for? He doesn't have to be in the rotation. We can all live with a rotation like this: Willis Vargas Moehler Mitre Free agent like Jose Lima You just gave me an idea. With the way you reason that we have no OF prospect close to ready and Tampa has no pitching. Well why don't they trade B.J Upton and all his errors to us for Scott Olsen. We can easily move him to the OF. He is very a gifted athelete. But the answer to this is they don't want part with something they already have alot of like us cause they won't get fair value in return. Im not saying Olsen or any of the top pitching prospects are untouchable but at the price of Gathright. Olsen for Upton If we could snatch Gathright for Tyler, Mitre, Bostick then we have a deal. Its not fair that they get a better return than us for a player that is not as good as the player we traded.

If a defensive OF is what you want. Chris Aguila has a better arm than both Pierre and Garthright. Might not have the speed of them 2 but what I saw out of him last year he is more than capable of playing CF or any OF position. That bat may not be there yet but he has nothing left to prove in the minors. Scott Podsednik was once in our farm system and we didn't give him a chance and look what happened? look what guys like Brady Clark have done when getting a oppurtunity. We would be better off playing Dillon at Lf who has potential to hit and is versitile than getting fleeced in any deal. We just need to find guys like Dillion who are stop gaps. The likes of J.T Retsko, Kris Harvey, Alejandro De Arza, Angel Molina, Gaby Sanchez, Greg Burns, Jai Miller, Jamar Walton will one day be ready. I'll take my chances with one of them panning out and our Drafting. Loria and company are responsible for Jeremy Hermida, Grady Seizmore, Brad Wilkerson which is not that bad of a group.

I'm new, just found this board existed, but I'll chime in. I trade JJ or Olsen for Gathright without any hesitation, and demand Green or Colome as throw in's. Both are useful, will help the marlins over the next 3-4 years, and TB wouldn't let them hold up a deal for any sort of SP. You do this because as what someone said before, you want this team to grow. 20+ P with potential in the minors, and nothing, absolutely nothing, in the farm system with position players. This team doesn't grow with Aguila, Reed, and Abercrombie playing in LF/CF. This team has ZERO options, except trade and free agency to get better in the OF and at 2B. Something has to change. You can have all the SP depth in the world in the minors, none of it is guarenteed to pan out. JJ would be the obvious choice. He is clearly at the bottom of the "first tier" level of Marlins prospects that are double AA and up and TB could insert directly into the rotation. Olsen is a nice pitcher with a fine upside also, but he also has question marks. His stats I can't argue with, they are awesome. But for me longterm after seeing him pitch, he is a two pitch pitcher. He can locate the fastball, but does not have well developed breaking pitches. I'm fine if you believe he will develop a change, or a wicked cutter, since he is so young and can mature as a player, but at the MLB level, I see him getting overexposed. Much like Heilmann, and how NYM are FINALLY getting smart and going to let him turn into the Ace RP he is. You can get away with this stuff in double AA like Olsen has, not necessarily in the bigs. Maybe I'm wrong, this is just how I see it. I disagree completely with the Mulder and Finley comparisons I have seen around the web for him. He is a different pitcher then them. I think the only untouchable pitchers are Vargas, Anibal, Petit, Volstad, Bowyer, Tyler, and maybe Gaby, in discussions to bring in another player. They have to bring in an OF. Also don't get me wrong, I dont want to trade just because I have tradelust, I think losing JJ or Olsen would suck. I would love for the Marlins to keep both of them because I think both have a great shot at being strong contributers, and for Admin to have been smart and got Milledge, or found some way to pry Pie, or even Murton, from the Cubs, but this is what we have to work with. A very nice 3-4 player position core, insane young P depth, and nothing in half the field. They need to get young complimentary players to fill out the roster. If they break camp with Aguila, Reed/Abercrombie, and Josh Wilson as three starters.... talk about ridiculous. That's not even a good triple AAA bottom 3 of the order, and there are no prospects a year away to even threaten their playing time. Also, Gathright has a bad rap. To say first, I do not think he will ever be a world beater, but I think he will be an above average MLB. He has consistently produced a .380-.410 OBP in the minors, averages a walk per 10 AB which is solid (even if the K's are high), he has 50 SB potential, is cheap, and fills a GLARING GLARING position of need for the Marlins. Both in 06, and longterm. He is exactly the OBP threat this team needs on top of the order to groom as a leadoff hitter. Hanley isn't the answer there, and what, Willingham is the best guy for the job right now? I can see Gathright growing into a .350-.360 OBP guy, with tons of steals, emerging double/gap power (he is not a slap and run hitter), and reasonable defense. Same problems with D w/ Pierre. Tons of range, bad jumps sometimes, average to below average arm. Overall, that is a pretty good baseball player, and even if JJ or Olsen pan out into a better player, you still have something pretty nice in value and you still have the other 19 or whatever P prospects with potential in the minors. Sometimes you have to suck it up and give up the slightly better player, to bring in a position of NEED. Especially if you get one of those thrown-in's above who also help you. It's not a bad trade by any stretch of the imagination. Rival GM's aren't going to settle for Nolasco or Tankersly. JJ or Olsen gets you Gathright. I say DO IT. Feel free to start yelling. This is just how I see it. They need Gathright a lot more then they need two entire pitching staffs of 20-22 year olds. First of all Nick Green and Jesus Colome are not exactly gonna make the trade worth it. In fact Josh Wilson is already better than Nick Green. Better hitter, fielder, younger, more potential, cheaper. Colome still struggles throwing strikes and is not exactly a prospect at age 26-27. You say Olsen has no second pitch well he ha the bets slider in the system according to baseballamerica. Also even if they don't have a second pitch yet which is wrong, they are only 21-22 years of age and can easily spend the whole year in the minors if needed. 2. SCOTT OLSEN, lhp Age: 22 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-4 Wt.: 198 Drafted: HS?Crystal Lake, Ill., 2002 (6th round) Signed by: Scot Engler Background: Considered a project out of high school, Olsen cost just $160,000 in bonus money. Jeff Schwarz, his pitching coach in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League, made a few mechanical adjustments and soon Olsen was roaring through the system. He reached the majors after just 397 minor league innings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strengths: Olsen pitches at 91-93 mph and tops out in the mid-90s. His fastball has late life and he has shown a vicious slider at times. It tends to drop straight down like a changeup or a split when it?s really on. He has a bulldog demeanor. Weaknesses: Olsen tends to overthrow when he gets in trouble and still needs to learn when to subtract velocity instead of adding it. He has gotten better at controlling his emotions and has packed more muscle on his naturally slight frame, but he can improve further in both areas. The Future: Shut down for the final six weeks of the season with elbow inflammation, Olsen is expected to be fine come spring training. He will compete for a spot at the back end of a rotation that could have no one over the age of 25. 2005 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG Carolina (AA) 6 4 3.92 14 14 1 1 80 75 7 27 94 .251 Florida 1 1 3.98 5 4 0 0 20 21 5 10 21 .259 If it absolutely takes Olsen or a top pitching we would be better off signing Kenny Lofton or Marquis Grissom. Or better yet just playing Chris Aguila. We are not in a hurry to win yet. We just want to develop players so there is no need to overspend on Gathright.