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Just a dumb observation: If this whole fire-sale process was decided upon going back to at least to the managerial interview process...why was there talk a week or two ago that the Marlins had interest in retaining his services and the interest was mutual? And that was with direct quotes from Beinfest and Conine's agent. Just putting that out there... Jeff Conine and Bernie Williams are on the same boat. Both there old teams want to sign them but not at what they made last season. The 2 sides have until the arbitration deadline to agree to a contract if not (in there cases Yanks and Marlins) don't offer them arbitration meaning they can't resign with the ball club again until May which by then will be to late.

Yeah, I thought Gonzalez was a Type A. My bad. I guess it could still be offered to both him and Enc, since I'm not sure there's much of a chance they'd accept, but I'll understand if they don't offer. I'd like to see Conine offered, but I'm not sure the Marlins will be able/want to pay him over $2 mil next year at the minimum, since he supposedly earned $3 mil last year (though it's hard to get a definitive number since he reworked his contract after coming back from Baltimore). the least money Conine wil recieve is 5 million for one season. More like the most he will make will be $5 million. He made $3 mil last season, he didn't tear up the power categories, and he's 39. Conine getting arbitration will not be a bank-breaking decision. No way Conine makes 5 million...And if the FO thought it was possible, no way in hell would they offer arby. Well, if they think Conine's gonna get 5 mil in arby, I wouldn't blame them for not offering. A team that sign a TYPE B Free agent still has to give uo there first round pick. The difference is the team that loses the players doesn't get the supplemnetal first round pick. Explain to me how the compensation works. Teams with bad records dont have to give up a sandwich? I get the general idea, but the details are iffy in my mind. The worst 14-16 teams by record have there pick protected and have to give up there 2nd if they sign a Type A or B free agent. Now the Elias Bureau has a system where they give points to players. They rank them by position and points. The one's with the most points have more value. Ex Ryan ha smore value than Burnett so the O's get the Jays 2nd for the Ryan signing and we get the Jays 3rd for the Burnett signing. Type A and B free agents cost the team that signed them a 1 round pick and if protected a 2nd. Now Type also requires a supplemental 1 round pick as well. Type C free agents don't cost the signee team anything but that team that loses the player gets a supplemental 2nd.

Does anyone think the large cash bonuses paid to high draft picks will have any affect on who we offer arbitration? Well the average supplemental first round picks in bonus gets around 1 million dollar (if not Boras client). As of now we have a supplemenatl 1 and the Blue Jays 3rd round pick which will probably cost us around 800-500 K

Yeah, I thought Gonzalez was a Type A. My bad. I guess it could still be offered to both him and Enc, since I'm not sure there's much of a chance they'd accept, but I'll understand if they don't offer. I'd like to see Conine offered, but I'm not sure the Marlins will be able/want to pay him over $2 mil next year at the minimum, since he supposedly earned $3 mil last year (though it's hard to get a definitive number since he reworked his contract after coming back from Baltimore). the least money Conine wil recieve is 5 million for one season. More like the most he will make will be $5 million. He made $3 mil last season, he didn't tear up the power categories, and he's 39. Conine getting arbitration will not be a bank-breaking decision. No way Conine makes 5 million...And if the FO thought it was possible, no way in hell would they offer arby. Well, if they think Conine's gonna get 5 mil in arby, I wouldn't blame them for not offering. A team that sign a TYPE B Free agent still has to give uo there first round pick. The difference is the team that loses the players doesn't get the supplemnetal first round pick.

the least money Conine wil recieve is 5 million for one season. More like the most he will make will be $5 million. He made $3 mil last season, he didn't tear up the power categories, and he's 39. Conine getting arbitration will not be a bank-breaking decision. No way Conine makes 5 million...And if the FO thought it was possible, no way in hell would they offer arby. Its very possible. I will be sweating bullets tonight and tommorrow until the final word comes out on who's been offered arbitration. COME ON BEINFEST DO THE SMART THING Offer it to Encarnacion, Jones and Gonzalez

Anyone else find it odd that we're expected to offer arbitration to none of our free-agents? Encarnacion and Gonzalez I can understand, but Jones and especially Conine should be arbitration candidates, given their small '05 salaries, the interest from other teams, and Conine's type-a status. Jones and Gonzalez should be musts. 95% sure they don't take it. With Encarnacion its to close to call it like 60% Now with Conine there is now way in hell we should offer him arbitration cause what he is set to make through a arbitrator will be more than what he will get on the open market.How is there any doubt Encarnacion walks on his arbitration? He had a solid year, and he'd get paid whatever the judge gives him to sit on the bench because it's going to take a lot to remove Hermida's name from the Opening Day lineup card. A arbitrator will probably will probably reward Encarnacion with a 7 million yera contract. Now if Jacque Jones gets 7 million for 3 years likes its being reported then there is no way Juan Encarnacion accepts it cause Jones and Encarnacion are essentially the same players. I say offer it to him. I also have a feeling Jim Bowden signs him. If he does I will like to receive his first round pick. The other 2 I mention are locks to decline it though.

Neither Enc or Gonzalez are type-a, so the risk just doesn't justify the reward. Jones will get a mult-year offer from someone, so he should be a candidate, and Conine's a type-a who didn't make a lot of money last year (since a player is guaranteed at least 80% of their previous single season salary) and it's not like it would be a bad thing for the franchise or fan-base if he came back... Type B free agents as compensation still require a first round pick. Conine is a A type FA like you said meaning if we offer him arbitration any team that signs him wil have to give up a firts round pick for him. Do you think many teams are going to be willing to give up a firts round pick for what essentially is a bench player? Also what the 80% rule means that the team that offer the players arbitration the least money they can offer him is 80% of what he made the previous season. Arbitrator never give a player less than what he made the previous season though which means if we do offer him arbitration the least money Conine wil recieve is 5 million for one season.

Anyone else find it odd that we're expected to offer arbitration to none of our free-agents? Encarnacion and Gonzalez I can understand, but Jones and especially Conine should be arbitration candidates, given their small '05 salaries, the interest from other teams, and Conine's type-a status. Jones and Gonzalez should be musts. 95% sure they don't take it. With Encarnacion its to close to call it like 60% Now with Conine there is now way in hell we should offer him arbitration cause what he is set to make through a arbitrator will be more than what he will get on the open market.

If we don't offer arbitration to our free agents then we don't get any compensation. I would just like to say if the FO office doesn't offer arbitration to Todd Jones and Alex Gonzalez then they will be hurting the rebuilding process and our future. The main reason our farm sysytem is so good now is not cause of all the trades we have made, its cause of all the picks we get for Redmond, Pavano, and Benitez last year. Neither of the players I mentioned are likely to accept arbitration especially Todd Jones. Same could be said for Alex Gonzalez. When Furcal goes for 13 million a year and rumors are going that the D-Rays could end up getting Andy Marte for Julio Lugo I find it unacceptable and I will be disgusted if they don't offer it to them 2. Without Ryan Tucker, Jacob Marceaux, Sean West, Aaron Thompson, Brett Hayes our farm system wouldn't be one of the top 10 farm systems in baseball.

I'd take that. Miles is pretty good. No he is not.

That's your opinion. We're not getting Pie or Murton.. that's a pipe dream. I really hope we get Williams to step right into our rotation. I understand that, I'd rather just not deal with the Cubs, I don't think they're a good match. Same here

I doubt the Yankees would give up Henn AND Proctor for Corey Patterson and Villone... You're suggesting that Henn and Proctor are actually good? The Yankees make out like bandits in that one... Proctor is. I'm not sold on Henn, but I've seen Proctor in person several times, he's legit. The fact that he is 28-29 and still only has a fastball to me isn't very appealing or exciting.

Not to start spreading false rumors or anything, but someone over at MLB TradeRumors.com is reporting: The Cubs would get: Jaun Pierre Matt Erickson The Marlins would get Sean Henn Scott Proctor Jeffrey Karstens Jerome Williams Jerry Hairston The Yankees would get: Correy Patterson Ron Villone From some guy who "has a source" at the Winter Meetings. Take it for what it's worth. MLBTradeRumors.com Im pretty sure that this is false.

Willis to devil rays for Kazmir, Young, Gomes and Hamels? I'll do it also but very unrealistic. The most realistic trade that I can think of that I will do is Florida Marlins: Justin Verlander Joel Zumaya and another prospect Top prospect as well Detroit Tigers: Dontrelle Willis Gammons mentioned today that Javy Vazquez vetoed a deal that would have sent him to the Tigers for Joel Zumaya and Curtis Granderson. If they will pay that much for Vazquez we can surely get both Verlander and Zumaya and something else.

Nix career # http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/N/laynce-nix.shtml If Nix does come here for Pierre the package better not be centered around him. I would trade Villone for Nix but thats about it. This guy doens't know how to take a walk and his # are inflated just like Mench, Blalock and yes even Texiera cause where he plays. Even then they are still not very impressive. The Deal Better be Diamond/Danks/Volquez Arias Nix for Pierre Villone i If not :thumbdown

The percentage is the percent chance rotoworld believes he'll be selected in the draft. Lincoln Holdzkom - RHP Marlins - Age 24 - 10 percent Returned late last season after undergoing Tommy John surgery in June 2004. Struck out 94 in 71 2/3 IP between two A-ball teams in 2003. Mid-90s fastball and curve could make him a quality reliever someday, but he's nowhere near ready right now. Kevin Howard - 2B/3B Reds - Age 25 - 80 percent Probably the best bet to go in the draft, Howard hit .296/.346/.428 for Double-A Chattanooga and then led the Arizona Fall League in hitting. He's a below average second baseman, so he might end up at third base for the long-term. The Marlins are one of the teams that could look at him as a cheap solution. Trevor Hutchinson - RHP Marlins - Age 26 - 5 percent Missed season after rotator cuff surgery. Hutchinson has been regarded as one of the Marlins' top pitching prospects since being drafted in 2003, but he doesn't have the kind of upside to make him worth stashing away. Nic Ungs - RHP Marlins - Age 26 - 10 percent 7-5, 3.68 ERA, 123 H, 79/34 K/BB in 120 IP for Double-A Carolina. 3.24 ERA in six starts in the AFL. Ungs is just a middle reliever, but he's ready now. Finally, a former Marlins prospect is available: Bill Murphy - LHP Diamondbacks - Age 24 - 10 percent Murphy was just available on waivers and went unclaimed, so there's little reason to think he'll be picked up now. Still, he's worth a look. 36 strikeouts and four walks in 27 1/3 innings in the Arizona Fall League. Complete Preview Im only worried about losing Lincoln Holdzkom who has nasty stuff who projects to be a set-up man or closer in the big League's. I think the he gets selected by a team like the Tigers but then gets returned cause like the article said he is still to raw and hasn't regained his velocity yet after TJ surgery which is why the Marlins didn't protect him. Ungs is another guy who I say gets picked but at 27 years of age and with his fringe stuff I wouldn't really call him a prospect. Same goes for Hutchinson who only has a good sinker and projects as a 5 starter at best. Kevin howard is someone who is worth taking IMO. Solid power and OBP.

We get 1 supp 1st rounder and a 1st rounder from the blue jays. SP trumps RP always Thank you AJ for at least getting us some picks you little punk and jerk that you are. I hope you pitch well and beat the yanks and bosox NO WE DON'T! BJ Ryan is a higher ranking FA, meaning the higher pick goes to Baltimore. The Jays first rounder is protected, meaning we get a supplemental and a THIRD ROUND PICK. Yep we get a supplemental 1 round pick and the Blue Jays 3rd round pick. I was one of the posters on this site who wanted us to make the Bronson Arroyo and Anibal Sanchez for Burnett trade and I feel even worse now knowing he signed with the Blue Jays and we don't even get 2 first rounds picks for him.

It contains two players that would be hard to acquire. Cano and Gomes. If the Yanks dont get Damon, dont be suprised to see them overpay for Pierre, a player The Boss likes. And we have a log jam of excellent young pitching. I didn't say trade Petit and Sanchez. But if those two helped us fill a hole in the field, which is a more pressing need and why I believe we stocked up on pitchers in the first place, why not do it. See what many of you don't understand is that we are not trying to build a winning team for next year. The FO is thinking stadium first and starting winning by 2008. At this point it will be retarded trading for Cano, Gomes and Gathright who either are unproven or have only had only good first year and there teams will be aksing for moon for them. Look at some Rookies who have had good years and have sucked since or not lived up to expectations: Todd Hollandsworth, Angel Berroa, Ben Grieve, Eric Hinske, Boh Hamelin, etc..... At this point its better just taking a chance with what we got and buld from the draft and smart low key free agent signings. Good Ex: Cleveland and Oakland Bad Ex: Tigers, Reds, Mariners

With Willingham's move to C, and Pierre about to be dealt, we have holes in LF, CF, and 2B. Hopefully the Pierre trade will fill one of those holes with a certain Robinson Cano. Anyway, I think we could fill the other two in one fail swoop... Joey Gathright and Jonny Gomes. Both are young(22 and 25 I believe), cheap(3 years of MLB experience combined), and exciting to watch. Would it be bad to part with, say, Hernandez, Petit, Tyler, Sanchez, or say if we deal Pierre to the Yanks and get Henn back as well...I could part with one of them, and another younger prospect in our system, if it gets those two back. Gomes hit .282 with 21 HR last year BTW. CF-Gathright SS-Ramirez RF-Hermida 3B-Cabrera 1B-Jacobs C-Willingham LF-Gomes 2B-Cano Lineup looks sexy to me. NO WAY WE TRADE ANIBAL SANCHEZ AND YUSMEIRO PETIT. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND NO POINT TO IT.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/051205loduca.html Mets Find Their Catcher In Lo Duca By Matt Meyers December 5, 2005 For the second time in two weeks, the Marlins traded one of their big league regulars to the Mets for two prospects, this time sending catcher Paul Lo Duca to his native New York for and two players to be named--one of whom is reported to be righthander Gaby Hernandez. A late bloomer, Lo Duca did not become a big league regular until 2001, when he was 29. The Arizona State product hit .320/.374/.543 that season but has not approached the same offensive level since, though he has made the National League all-star team each of the last three seasons. A 25th-round pick in 1993, Lo Duca is an adept contact hitter who does not walk or strike out often. He is a career .285 hitter, but his power has seen a precipitous decline as he slugged .380 last season and .376 in 2004. Defensively, Lo Duca will provide an upgrade over Mike Piazza, but after throwing out a career-high 41 percent of basestealers in 2003, he has thrown out 26 percent over the last two seasons. Lo Duca is due $12.5 million over the next two seasons and was too expensive for the cost-cutting Marlins, who have now shed close to $40 million from their 2005 payroll by trading Lo Duca, Carlos Delgado, Mike Lowell, Josh Beckett and Luis Castillo for minor leaguers. Hernandez provides the Marlins with yet another intriguing young arm. A third-round pick in 2004 out of high school in Miami, Hernandez dominated the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League in 2004 and the low Class A South Atlantic League in 2005 before running into trouble after a promotion to high Class A St. Lucie. The 19-year-old features a two-seam fastball with excellent life that sits in the low 90s that is his best pitch. He also has a changeup that is currently average, but scouts say it could become an above-average pitch. At this point, his breaking ball is below-average, which was evident in St. Lucie when more advanced hitters batted .298 against him. The key to his future will be his breaking ball. It needs more depth, and he has a tendency to tip it early. The highlight of Hernandez' 2005 season was a no-hitter on Father's Day that clinched a share of the SAL Northern Division's first half title. He was 6-1, 2.43 at Hagerstown with 99 strikeouts and 30 walks in 93 innings. For St. Lucie, he was 2-5, 5.74 with a 32-10 strikeout-walk ratio in 42 innings. Although some say its not Gaby Hernandez atleats Baseball America has him as one of the PTBNL. Again no Gaby Hernandez then bad deal. That was the only deal I have actually liked so far and even praised Beinfest and now it might be false.

If no Gaby Hernandez then this trade sucks :banghead

:mad No first rounder. Yep I rather him go to the Cards and we get 2 first round picks. I believe if he goes to the Blue Jays we get 1 first and a 3rd cause the second round pick goes to the Orioles.

:thumbdown DALLAS -- Next Fish to get tossed out of the Marlins' boat? Looks like Juan Pierre. According to clubs that have spoken with the Marlins, Florida is stepping up its efforts to move Pierre, now that Paul Lo Duca's ticket to New York has been booked. AP Photo Juan Pierre batted .276 and had 57 stolen bases in 2005.The Cubs, White Sox and Rangers appear to be the three most aggressive teams in the Pierre hunt. But the Dodgers, Tigers, Nationals and a half-dozen other teams have at least kicked Pierre's tires. However, indications are that the price tag on Pierre might be as hefty as any Florida has demanded so far. According to various sources who have had conversations with the Marlins' delegation, Florida has asked the Cubs for their top prospect, center fielder Felix Pie -- a potential deal-breaker. The asking price from Texas isn't any cheaper, though. It would include at least one of the names the Marlins sought in the Josh Beckett deal -- pitching megaprospects John Danks and Thomas Diamond. And from the White Sox, it's believed the Marlins have asked for either pitcher Brandon McCarthy or hot outfield prospect Chris Young. "Somebody is going to have to move a hell of a [young player] to get this guy," said an official of one team involved in these discussions. "If not, there are so many teams, somebody else will give up that [kind of player]." Now that Rafael Furcal has commanded $13 million a year and Johnny Damon figures to up his price to at least that level, Pierre (who is arbitration-eligible and a year from free agency) has turned into the most affordable leadoff option on the market. And the Marlins have played that card for all it's worth in the winter meetings. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/col...yson&id=2248738 Extremely good news. Personally I want John Danks or Chris Young for Pierre. Say no to Pie though :thumbdown

Thanks

Hernandez is not at the moment, nor does he profile to be, a "great" pitcher. There's only one person we got who could fit into that "great" territory and that's Sanchez. I would have rather seen LoDuca be moved for a position player. He profiles as a #3 but that is still pretty good.