Out of the Past

Seems like people here are bashing the guy based on superficial statistics (hits, BA). The man was a feared hitter and knew how to draw a walk. Before his final season of retirement, McGwire had only one season with an OBP below .400 (from 1993-2000). I can't believe you're using seasons in which he played 27 and 47 games ('93 and '94) to make support his making the hall of fame. I also think that using seasons in which he played 104 and 89 games ('95 and '00) is ridiculous but not as ridiculous as the other ones.

he had a near .400 career OBP, probably would have been over 400 if it wasn't for his last season. That's not one dimensional. Career 162 OPS+, .982 OPS. Yes, he's a HOFer. His case is a dilemma for me. Usually my position is that if MLB didn't ban the use of performance enhancing drugs then I have a hard time holding it against a player for using them. The 162+ is impressive but his career lacked longevity and he missed a lot of gam,es with injuries. He played over 104 games only 10 seasons. He was very good in only 6 of those 10 seasons. He was "dirty" in 3 of those 6. If you take his seasons from '96 to '98 seasons out, when he was dirty, would he be a hall of famer? I leave him out.

I think it's safe to assume that Rabelo or Treanor could top Miguel Olivo's .667 OPS. An even safer bet would to assume they could top his .262 OBP. Olivo sucks as a starter but I would bet that our '08 catchers don't match Olivo's Marlins OPS (.696) or that they do as good a job as he did erasing base runners on the bases. I'd be willing to be that whoever gets more at bats between Treanor and Rabelo, that player will have a better than .700 OPS Okay, I'll bet a $1 that he doesn't OPS over .700 and another $1 that his CS% is lower than Olivo's CS% with the Marlins (35.71%). And how about passed balls and errors? Who will have more of those? How about another $1 on this: (PB + (errors x 2) - (runners picked-off x 2)) / innings caught The lower number wins.

I think it's safe to assume that Rabelo or Treanor could top Miguel Olivo's .667 OPS. An even safer bet would to assume they could top his .262 OBP. Olivo sucks as a starter but I would bet that our '08 catchers don't match Olivo's Marlins OPS (.696) or that they do as good a job as he did erasing base runners on the bases. I'd be willing to be that whoever gets more at bats between Treanor and Rabelo, that player will have a better than .700 OPS Okay, I'll bet a $1 that he doesn't OPS over .700 and another $1 that his CS% is lower than Olivo's CS% with the Marlins (35.71%).

I think it's safe to assume that Rabelo or Treanor could top Miguel Olivo's .667 OPS. An even safer bet would to assume they could top his .262 OBP. Olivo sucks as a starter but I would bet that our '08 catchers don't match Olivo's Marlins OPS (.696) or that they do as good a job as he did erasing base runners on the bases.

BTW the Golden Glove is equally a Sham like pating gifts to a golf tournament because Rollins didn't deserve that one either :whistle Whatever man. It doesn't bother me at all. It's not like I won the thing. The joke is the media who vote on these awards Managers and coaches (and maybe players?) vote for the Gold Glove and the Silver Slugger. The media doesn't vote on them.

The "how many outs in a season a guy makes" argument is dumb. An out is the worst thing a guy can do in an at bat. So, if he makes more outs than anyone else, that is not good. I'm not sure how that is a dumb argument. Or, how about the argument that he has been a below average ML hitter in his career, and his career high OPS was a scant 9 percent better than league average in a park that basically begs hitters to take it out every time. Or the argument that he has a career OBP that is below league average, or that in his best year, he was still below average in OBP, and he's getting more at bats than anyone in the league. Are those dumb arguments? If you are leading the league in at bats, and you are making outs at a subpar rate, you are not a very valuable player. It's a dumb argument because although he led MLB in outs he was 2nd among SS in OPS, RC and RC27 and the primary reason he led in outs is because he also led in PAs (there were only 2 hitters within 50 PAs of him). I think OPS and RC27 are more important than the number of outs a hitter makes in a season. Do you disagree? Do you really think that a hitter that's 2nd his position in OPS and RC27 is not a "very valuable" player?

The "how many outs in a season a guy makes" argument is dumb.

On last year's squad? I'd have put either Victorino or Rowand in the lead off spot. I know most people would consider it crazy to say so, but in my eyes Rollins, in his career, hits more like a 6-8 hitter if not for his speed. I don't think his speed is enough to make up for his career .331 OBP (!!!!). He's been a remarkably average hitter over the course of his career. The Phillies might want to ride his prime power years and have him hit 5th to offset his low OBP and relatively high SLG for the next few years. If you hit Rollins 5th what you'll do is turn some of his triples into doubles, some of his doubles into singles and some of his infield singles into forced outs.

I didn't say I would take Rollins over Ramirez, but you can't say Rollins and Ramirez are a wash with the glove. Last year there was a huge difference, and in 2006 Rollins was still better. And it's not hard to lead the league in outs when you have a .344 OBP and lead off because you are fast and teams still stick to the antiquated notion that lead off hitter = fast guy. I know! So where would you hit him? In that lineup he shouldn't hit anywhere other than 1st or 2nd and I would rather have him leading-off than hitting 2nd. And he'll continue being in the top 10 of the league in outs, as he has every single year he's been in the league. I don't care. He should still lead-off on that team. Since you think it was antiquated for him to lead-off will you respond as to where you would have hit him?

I didn't say I would take Rollins over Ramirez, but you can't say Rollins and Ramirez are a wash with the glove. Last year there was a huge difference, and in 2006 Rollins was still better. And it's not hard to lead the league in outs when you have a .344 OBP and lead off because you are fast and teams still stick to the antiquated notion that lead off hitter = fast guy. I know! So where would you hit him? In that lineup he shouldn't hit anywhere other than 1st or 2nd and I would rather have him leading-off than hitting 2nd.

Pretty face, waist, hips and butt. She's one of those models that would look better without the fake boobs. Her "boobs" are several different sizes in those shots.

I think being on that stacked offense alone, he'll get his wins... and yet his overall numbers will be ugly What kind of numbers do you expect out of him? I expect 600-650 innings with an ERA in the 4.00 neighborhood. I think a few factors will help him. In the AL he'll actually face easier lineups than what he was facing in the NL. The Tigers play good D.. the Marlins play horrible D. Also, his deceptive delivery may allow him to fool some AL hitters that are not as familiar with it. There's no way he faces easier lineups in the AL. This past season 3 of his division rivals were in the top 10 in OPS and 3 of next season's division rivals were in the bottom 5. Not only that, but I think people think the AL has the far better hitters but the AL's OPS was only .004 higher than the NL and that's with the DH... .004 in OPS points is nothing. 2 Philadelphia - .812 8 NY Mets - .775 9 Atlanta - .774 28 Washington - .715 11 Cleveland - .771 26 Chicago Sox - .722 27 Minnesota - .721 29 Kansas City - .710 American League - .760 National League - .756

I think being on that stacked offense alone, he'll get his wins... and yet his overall numbers will be ugly What kind of numbers do you expect out of him? I expect 600-650 innings with an ERA in the 4.00 neighborhood. I think a few factors will help him. In the AL he'll actually face easier lineups than what he was facing in the NL. The Tigers play good D.. the Marlins play horrible D. Also, his deceptive delivery may allow him to fool some AL hitters that are not as familiar with it.

How did they understand what you were asking? They're not stupid so they have no problems understanding him.

Raquel Welch's Fathom and any of the various movies with Bo Derek while in her prime in which she takes off her clothes.

The only name on that list that surprises me at all is Albert Pujols. Same here. Surprised and dissapointed me.

So can we expect suspensions for every one of the people named? Or is there a statute of limitations on steroid use? I wouldn't bet on it. I think it depends on when they supposedly used the steroids and what kind of proof they have. I think some of the guys on the list were already retired by the time the MLB steroids policy was implemented.

Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? We kept Miguel two years into Arbitration, why not Hanley? And a year from now (hopefully a month but who am I kidding) we could have a stadium deal in place and he'll get $100 Million and a pat on the butt. We kept Miguel only one year into arbitration. Remember he made minimum wage in '06.

Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts?

As you say, they have no value. So essentially we'd be trading them for nothing. Nobody's going to give up something for nothing. So why trade them, then? If we're doing internet trades we may as well rob the other team: De Aza for either Kemp or Either.

Last year we had baseball's worst starting pitching we just traded away DTrain. I don;t think it would be a good idea to trade starters unless the other GM is giving away good players. There may be plenty of starters with 4.50 ERAs but last year we didn't have any and I wouldn't bet on us having any this year (with 162 innings).

DuPuy's talking about the stadium and the effect of not having one on the Marlins. He has been setting the stage for relocation for some time, at least a year, none of this should come as a surprise to anyone. BTW the Professional Sports Franchise Tax has so much $ at this time collected and unspent they could be build two stadiums and still have money left over so quickly are receipts building up. but why should they? because hand outs were given to other sport franchises? The Marlins should be paying their fair share I wasn't suggesting that they should, only that the money is there and the illusion of a shortfall is just that, an illusion. People forget this isn't the Marlins stadium, this is a municipal stadium which the Marlins will lease part-time. What percentage of the stadium usage do you think will be Marlins related and who do you think will control the management of the stadium?

He'll get an apology when he apologizes for what he's done to this franchise. Yeah that bastard! He took over a promising team with a track record of spending money, put together 4 years of expanded budget, 3 competitive seasons and a World Championship. Damn him and his evil-vileness! The team he took over was built by John Henry & Dave Dombrowski. That is the essence of the team that won a WS in 2003. The team he has had Admin (confined by budget constraints) put together has had losing seasons in 2006 & 2007 using only players here under his ownership. The consensus for next year, even from the most optimistic on this board is for a break even season (if we remain injury free). That would be 3 years of a budget team, no winning seasons, and the trading away of the franchise faces. This is his real track record. :mischief I think Dombrowski and Beinfest both deserve a lot of credit for the '03 team. Dombrowski built most of it and Beinfest shed the garbage and filled-in the holes. Regarding 2006 and 2007, Cabrera and Hammer are Dombrowski's guys as was Beckett and without Beckett there would be no Hanley. Take Miguiel, Hammer and Hanley out of the '06 and '07 teams and we're losing close to 100 games each of those seasons.

Dodgers get a big bat without losing Kemp and LaRoche and who knows who else. I don't like it because he'll likely take ABs away from Ethier and Kemp. If he took ABs away from JP then I could maybe like the signing but I don't see them benching JP.