fauowls44

Here is the take from John Manuel on the BA Blog: Skip To My Lou Posted Jun. 5, 2008 1:46 pm by John Manuel Filed under: Draft Day Matt Blood and I love this pick: Kyle Skipworth to the Marlins. In our last podcast that wasn?t a college behemoth podcast, we both agreed that Skipworth can be the highest-ceiling player in this draft. He?s a lefthanded-hitting catcher who can just flat hit, and he has arm strength and improved catch-and-throw skills. Frankly, this pick rocks. The Marlins need catching, Skipworth has an advanced bat and can be a premium player at a premium position. Now the Reds can go get Gordon Beckham and everything can keep proceeding according to Matt?s plan.

HORRIBLE. I'm going to puke. God dammit Beinfest. What the hell are you doing. LOL... I love when people freak out over taking players they have never seen play...except for maybe a grainy scout video. LOL. There is such a low probability he turns into an average major leaguer because of his age and POSITION, the Marlins should have taken a college prospect who is safer. Especially because we are a low budget franchise and we can't afford to miss on players. OK, but there is risk with ANY of these picks. No offense, but i'll trust Beinfest and company over your opinion on this. The only thing you have against him is his age and position, which doesn't seem like a fair criticism considering you have never seen the kid play! Besides, considering the budget and our small margin of error, don't you think they did a lot of homework on this kid? It's not as if they are the only people that thought Skipworth was a really good prospect. According to the "experts" this is hardly a reach.

HORRIBLE. I'm going to puke. God dammit Beinfest. What the hell are you doing. LOL... I love when people freak out over taking players they have never seen play...except for maybe a grainy scout video.

As we close in on midnight, the draft is still, well, pretty much a mess, but there looks to be some direction finally with the Rays at number one overall. It?s not because they?ve made a decision on who is the best player, and it?s not because they?ve decided to go for ceiling (Tim Beckham) over certainty (Buster Posey). It?s because of money. On the final night of the draft, many decisions are made with checkbooks. Teams looking at multiple players begin to make calls to agents to gauge signability, and those discussions can help steer teams one way or the other. Late this evening, multiple sources have indicated as to Buster Posey?s draft-eve asking price, and it?s a doozy at $12 million. Right now, that looks like more than enough to make up the Rays mind, and they?ll likely be taking Tim Beckham unless that number reverses dramatically in the next 12 hours. The real question is to the reason for the number, as some believe it?s a posturing maneuver to drop Posey to a team with deeper pockets, though many feel that strategy would backfire, and somebody with a early pick will call the bluff. Link Looks like Posey could be around by the 6th pick. Will Mr. Loria open up the check book? For what it is worth, Baseball America's final mock draft has Posey going to the Fish at #6.

But Marlins scouting director Jim Fleming shed some light on Florida's goals when he was asked Wednesday what he thought about Skipworth, who might be the best prep catcher since Joe Mauer was taken with the first pick in 2001 by Minnesota. If Skipworth is available, Fleming said, "then that's probably who we'll take, but we're not down to a decision yet. We have lots of guys we like in the sixth hole." http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rlinsdraft.html Very, very odd for a scouting director to come right out and say something like that. Not sure what to make of it. Is it a smokescreen, and if so, why would they even need one? This is the full quote from the Sun Sentinel: "I'm not going to give away any trade secrets," Fleming said on a Wednesday teleconference. "If he happens to be [the top player left], that's probably who we'll take. We're not at a decision yet. We have lots of guys we like in the sixth hole." http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basebal...0,1419264.story

According to the Miami Herald Blog, Uggla is back in south Florida to witness the birth of his second child and will rejoin the team in time for Thursday's game How selfish...get back in the lineup!!

omg.i really want posey. yes the draft is friday, last day of school is thursday. im watching this. who is the player that the giants will absolutely take if posey is still available. and what is the chance he falls to us? what are his defensive skills like. who is he compared to? The draft is Thursday.

After all this discussion, I have come to the conclusion that I would like the opportunity to see Dallas McPhearson sooner rather than later. Yes, he strikes out a lot, but he's still getting onbase at a .383 clip and has an OPS over 1.000 and yes, I realize he's in the PCL. Still, the guy can hit and he's got to be better defensively than Cantu. That said, Cantu is about what I expected.

Saying that, it is very doubtful an 18 year old catcher will be the best player available. This quote makes no sense. Why couldn't an 18 year old catcher be the best player available?

So May 31st everything was great because we were in first by .5 game and now we all need to panic because we're .5 back of first on June 1st? Have you people never watched a baseball season before?? As someone else said, this is the toughest trip of the year....I'd easily take 5-5 or even 4-6. We have been in every game except the first one in Philly and should have won that last one in NY. The Phillies are hitting out of their minds right now, do you think they'll be hitting like this all year? I don't (although they are a great offensive team). It's baseball, it happens.

So what do you make of this talk of not having the 9 votes to pass the agreement? I would assume that the comissioners voting NO would have to state some sort of reason not to vote on the agreement before them so that the agreement could be ammended. What you are saying is that they cannot simply vote NO because know they don't want to spend the money on a ballpark? Or they could vote NO because of that but then would be voting on something entirely different than the issue before them? I know this may sound complex, but you cannot use common-use language and apply it to governmental actions. A local government can only vote on the matter that is before them on the agenda. When the operating agreement is presented to them at a duly noticed public hearing, that is all they are voting on -- the agreement. They are not voting on the overall project or whether or not to proceed. Therefore, when the operating agreement is presented to them, they must vote "YAY" or "NAY" as to whether to approve the agreement as written. Basically, to put it in laymen's terms, all the Commission is voting on is to give the Chair or Mayor the authority to put his name on the dotted line. The negotiations on the part of the County Staff do not constitute the Official Action of the County. An act is not "official" until it is voted upon by the collective body. For example, I have worked as a County Attorney and I'm currently one of the attorneys for a municipality in Miami-Dade County. I can negotiate on behalf of the County or City at either a mediation or at a settlement conference, or even on a contract which is to be ratified. However, all I can offer the other parties as the attorney for the local government is that the agreement/settlement we've drafted in all of our conferences will be presented to the Council/Commission with a recommendation of approval. It will then be up to the Council/Commission to either (a) approve; (b) deny; or ? approve with conditions the draft agreement I present to them. Do you see what I mean right now? Perhaps Tester's "sources" are saying that the draft agreement as it is written now, will not have the necessary votes for unconditional ratification. However, that does not mean the deal is dead, it just means that more work has to go into the details of the agreement to satisfy each governing body. Trust me, as someone who saw the first draft of the operating agreement for the original OB baseball stadium (the one that was going to be built next door to the OB), you cannot even begin to imagine the level of detail these agreements have. This is not a two-page document that says County does this, City does this, and Team does this. This is a hundred-plus page document that details every responsibility and every instance of wrong doing and who is responsible for what and when. Negotiations take time, especially when they involve multi-million dollar projects. Everybody needs to take a collective breath and calm down. Thanks, that is a little clearer. I guess what has me nervous is that you read comments like this from today's Miami Today article: Commissioners such as Joe Martinez and Katy Sorenson have said openly they do not think the stadium has the nine votes it needs. Hank Goldberg, dean of Miami sports radio and now of ESPN, said on AM 790 The Ticket Sunday that his sources say if a vote were taken today, the stadium would lose "8 to 5." A preliminary baseball agreement passed 9-3 in February. http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/080529/story2.shtml So either these commissioners don't know what they are talking about( or what they will be voting on, since they already agreed to this plan), or they are going to vote against it in hopes of killing it. It's still a long time until they vote so guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out in July.

You guys are missing the whole point. Because of Florida's strict open government laws, all agreements that are entered into by local governments (or all government for that matter) must be adopted in a duly noticed public hearing by a vote of the governing body. Therefore, while the financial aspect of the deal has been approved, the next step is the operating agreements, of which the County and City are parties. The County and City CANNOT agree to the contract without a vote of the governing body at a duly noticed public hearing. That being said, a "NO" vote doesn't mean that the deal is dead, it only means that the agreement, as drafted, is unacceptable and must be revised to be acceptable to all the parties. The only way a "NO" vote would "KILL" the project would be if the matter is brought to a vote, it fails, and the parties then refuse to negotiate a deal -- something that will not happen. Also remember that many of the development approvals need to be completed as well. I know for a fact that the stadium will not need to undergo a Development of Regional Impact (DRI) review because they are using the vested rights of the old OB stadium. This process cut development time considerably (something that COULD NOT BE DONE at any other site in South Florida!). Everybody just has to relax and let the powers that be sort this out pursuant to the rules and regulations that are set forth for this kind of thing. So what do you make of this talk of not having the 9 votes to pass the agreement? I would assume that the comissioners voting NO would have to state some sort of reason not to vote on the agreement before them so that the agreement could be ammended. What you are saying is that they cannot simply vote NO because know they don't want to spend the money on a ballpark? Or they could vote NO because of that but then would be voting on something entirely different than the issue before them?

If I understand correctly...and someone more "in the know" please correct me if i'm wrong...the parties have already agreed to the financing of the stadium when they voted on the BSA. The next vote is to ratify the construction and labor agreements. That is the actual contracts with designers, builders, etc. That's it. I suppose the commission could vote against the agreement brought before them, but they aren't voting on whether or not to build a stadium(they already decided to do that), but to approve the actual contracts related to the building of the stadium. Perhaps voting no on the contracts could effectively delay the construction, but I would hope that they wouldn't do that after previously supporting the project. Afterall they have already spent money(I assume) in the development phases as well as the legal fees fighting Braman.

Is the question is who is the greatest career hitter to play for the Marlins or just the greatest hitter during their time as a Marlin? If it is the hitter with the greatest overall career to have been a Marlin, then it has to be either Sheffield or Piazza. Both are Hall of Famers. You could even make a case for Andre Dawson. As for the greatest Marlins-only hitter ever, it can only be either Sheff or Miggy. Hanley will soon join the list, but the others aren't really even close to those two.

Nobody from the Heat has said much, let alone that they believe Mayo is rated above either Rose or Beasley. I think that report just comes from the fact that Mayo is working out with Wade in Chicago.....I'm sure a lot of other players are also, he's working with MJ's former trainer. But I will say that a Mayo-Wade backcourt would be fun to watch, but they can't take him at 2. I still believe there's a strong possibilty that Riley has Beasley rated #1 on his board and is quietly hyping up other players hoping the Bulls don't take him at 1. I highly doubt any of this works though, the Bulls will take who they want no matter what Pat Riley is saying or doing....and in the end the Heat should consider themselves very lucky to grab whichever player the Bulls pass up.

Let everyone ignore this team, it's working just fine. Andrew Miller = stud.

Riley is posturing. It's what he does. You have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. He is trying to gain an advantage. If you have listened to any of the interviews with Randy Pfund, he makes it pretty clear that he considers Rose and Beasley the top 2 players in the draft. They are trying to leverage the situation as much as possible, which is the right thing to do. Jim Paxson has said a lot of the same things about listening to trade offers as well. If someone is willing to blow them away with an offer, then they have to listen. In the end, I think they'll just do the easy thing and just take whoever the Bulls don't and be done with it.

Nolasco with one of the best starts of the year. He was nasty tonight.

How does Beasley fit with Wade and Marion? That's my only concern. Whomever we get...we get...and would instantly upgrade our roster. But, Rose is really the guy who best fits Miami long-term. Wade, Marion, and Beasley....I don't see how that works out without a quality PG. That also squeezes out Haslem (not saying he's a future building block, but he's relegated to the bench here), and still leaves us with no center or PG. Rose is really the perfect fit. He'll work we'll with Wade, Haslem, and Marion, and we could play an up-tempo style of bball. I would try to package D-Cook/D-Wright/future pick to move up into the Bull's slot and make sure we get Rose. They're probably indifferent anyway, and would end up with the better overall talent. I'm sure that they can make Wade/Beasley/Marion work. Amare and Marion fit pretty well together. Besides, Marion has 1 year left on his deal and could opt out sooner. You don't not pick Beasley based on Marion. Just like you don't let the fact that Haslem is on the roster stop you from taking Beasley. Haslem could possibly be even more effective coming off the bench as a defender/rebounder/energy player. If the Heat really want Rose and could get him by offering Cook/Wright to swap places, I'd be fine with it, but I don't think they can afford to give up future picks, especially since we already owe a future #1 to Minnesota. I think both Beasley and Rose will be special players. I'll take either of them and be very happy. I agree with your analysis about ignoring Marion/Haslem issues when selecting, I want to touch on the bolded part. Amare and Marion only worked because of Nash. Nash ran that whole show. So, like I stated earlier, I'm not sure Beasley, Wade, and Marion work without a quality PG (which we don't have). So, IF we re-sign Marion long-term, I'm not sure Beasley is the best fit. If he opts out, I doubt we'll be able to get a quality PG...they are pretty much never made FAgents and are the hottest commodity right now in the league. OK, but the Heat won a championship with two servicable point guards...The Celtics could win a championship with Rondo at PG...The Lakers may win a championship with Derek Fisher at PG...I don't consider Billups an "elite" PG, but the Pistons have gone to 6 straight ECFs. I know because of Paul and Deron Williams, everyone is enamored with PGs, but you don't NEED an elite PG to win in the NBA...but you do need a big time post player. Don't get me wrong, I'd be overjoyed to get Rose. But I'd also be just as happy with Beasley. I don't care if he isn't the best fit. With a talent like that, you make him fit.

How does Beasley fit with Wade and Marion? That's my only concern. Whomever we get...we get...and would instantly upgrade our roster. But, Rose is really the guy who best fits Miami long-term. Wade, Marion, and Beasley....I don't see how that works out without a quality PG. That also squeezes out Haslem (not saying he's a future building block, but he's relegated to the bench here), and still leaves us with no center or PG. Rose is really the perfect fit. He'll work we'll with Wade, Haslem, and Marion, and we could play an up-tempo style of bball. I would try to package D-Cook/D-Wright/future pick to move up into the Bull's slot and make sure we get Rose. They're probably indifferent anyway, and would end up with the better overall talent. I'm sure that they can make Wade/Beasley/Marion work. Amare and Marion fit pretty well together. Besides, Marion has 1 year left on his deal and could opt out sooner. You don't not pick Beasley based on Marion. Just like you don't let the fact that Haslem is on the roster stop you from taking Beasley. Haslem could possibly be even more effective coming off the bench as a defender/rebounder/energy player. If the Heat really want Rose and could get him by offering Cook/Wright to swap places, I'd be fine with it, but I don't think they can afford to give up future picks, especially since we already owe a future #1 to Minnesota. I think both Beasley and Rose will be special players. I'll take either of them and be very happy.

I'd hate to lose out on Rose. We need a facilitator the most. What are we to do with Beasley? Because this 15 win Heat team that currently has no post presence couldn't use the best big man in the draft who is a double-double machine? Either way, the Heat win.

The Heat are better off with the #2 pick, no pressure. I agree, they can't be 2nd guessed now. They are in a perfect spot. Either way, they'll get a tremendous player. As for the Bulls, people have said for years that they need a post scorer, so Beasley would fill that role, but Rose is the Chicago native. They have a tough decision.

It'll make SOME sense to get Jones, if Willingham is going to be out for a LONG time (like a month or so). I still don't like the idea. Anyone know where De Aza is? He always seems to be lost, somehow. :mis2 De Aza is hurt...has been since the Yankees exhibition game. The next time he'll be heard from again is next spring when he returns to tear up the Grapefruit League before his next injury. At the very least, he should be inducted into the Grapefruit League Hall of Fame. They can put him right next to Ramon Castro. As for Jones. This makes perfect sense. He doesn't cost a thing(other than the vet's minimum) and with the Marlins CF's being the worst in baseball, why not give him a shot? Is he the perfect player? No. He's not going to win a gold glove out there, but neither is Ross or Amezaga. Plus, he's going to be a big upgrade offensively from Amezaga who has produced basically nothing over the past few weeks.

Hopefully attendance will get better. This is still a relatively young franchise, and most of the existing populous were fans of other teams already. Here's hoping we are getting generations of Marlins fans raised in Florida, because that's really what builds a fanbase - time and a track record of excellent, entertaining baseball. Maybe a bit.....but people, especially on this board, underestimate the effect that stadium has on attendance. Its just about impossible to get to that stadium for a 7pm game during the week. IIRC the starting time the 1st two years of the franchise was 7:30 pm. We drew more than 2 million each of those years. I'm not sure about all the other stadiums, but the majority of MLB stadia are not more than just a few miles of the attending population. I live in central Miami-Dade County, and Dolphin Stadium is 30 miles from my front door. Ridiculous, when I can watch it on TV, especially with gas prices & parking fees. That is just the way it is. Why try to rush, rush, rush to get to the ballpark from work or have to ask to leave work early, and God forbid I have to stay a few minutes to finish something at work. Why do all that when I can go home and watch on the TV ? It is THE STADIUM and where it is located. I am certain this will change when the new ballpark is in place, closer to the population. People on this board have to realize its so many factors as well, including the the instability of the ownership, lack of committment (in the past) from management. Take 2 years ago when Girardi had them close to contending.....did mangement step up to the plate and try to win that year ? What trades made the team better ? Did they aquire a pitcher to help the young team out NO. And the team wilted in August & September. There is just no faith by whatever fans are left, and even myself, I am still not convinced that Hanley is now just a very tradable asset when he is signed, and not the cornerstone of the franchise. The actions of this ownership in the past make me very wary, and that will never change. They fooled us once, and they will never regain that trust completely. When were you fooled by this ownership group? I think they have pretty much stuck to their plan all along. You can not like the plan, but that doesn't mean that they have deceived you in any way. They have said all along that they want players out performing their contracts, they like young, cheap, talent under their financial control, they will spend what makes sense in repsect to their revenues, no player is untradable for the right price, and they will add payroll when they think they are close to contending. They have been quite sucessful with this plan. They won a World Series and have had multiple competitive seasons on a tight budget. If they had a book written about them, like the A's, they'd be considered brilliant, instead they are just considered cheap.

Here is the Herald's article on today's happenings...turns out it wasn't much of a victory for Braman after all: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_n...ory/526378.html Parts of Braman's suit over Miami plan going to trial Posted on Thu, May. 08, 2008Digg del.icio.us AIM reprint print email BY MATTHEW I. PINZUR mpinzur@MiamiHerald.com Finding that local leaders were not illegally secretive, a Miami-Dade judge ruled Thursday against part of auto magnate Norman Braman's challenge to the government's massive downtown development plan. Miami Mayor Manny Diaz called it a ``huge victory for both the city and the county.'' But Circuit Judge Pedro Echarte allowed Braman's other claims to move forward toward a July 1 court date. ''It means there will be a trial,'' said Roberto Martinez, a former U.S. attorney and part of Braman's legal team. The split decision allowed both sides to claim victory in a fight that has often been about swaying public opinion as much as settling a legal dispute. County Mayor Carlos Alvarez and Miami's Diaz have stood firmly behind the plan, which includes a $619 million ballpark complex for the Florida Marlins, a major face-lift for Bicentennial Park and a new funding source for nearly $500 million in construction debt at the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts. TUNNEL The deal also includes about 5 percent of the funding for an underwater tunnel to the Port of Miami and an estimated $1.7 billion through 2030 for development in the impoverished Overtown and Omni areas. The deal was announced in December, just days before both city and county commissioners approved. Braman said Florida's Sunshine-In-Government Act required public notice of the earlier negotiations, an argument Echarte rejected. ''It is evidence that Miami-Dade County has acted responsibly and within the law,'' Alvarez said in a written statement. Braman's remaining legal arguments center around the deal itself rather than how it was negotiated. Among them: ? The ballpark budget includes $50 million that voters earmarked for renovations at the Orange Bowl. The county commission shifted that money after plans were made to demolish the football stadium. Braman contends that violated voters' intent and, moreover, shifted money from a public to private project. ''It's like taking money earmarked for Metrozoo and giving it to Animal Kingdom at Disney World,'' Martinez said. The county has retorted that it followed its own procedures for making changes to that voter-approved bond issue. ? Many of the projects, including the arts center debt, would be funded from Community Redevelopment Agencies -- special funds that require new property-tax money in blighted areas to be used for neighborhood improvements. VIOLATION? The bonds used to build the arts center were partially backed by tourist taxes, and Braman said the infusion of CRA money violated the terms of those bonds. The government has rejected that interpretation, saying the original tourist taxes will still go to the arts center; if they are not needed to pay off construction, they will help subsidize operations. ? The deal said the additional CRA money for the arts center debt was ``necessary to provide for the city and county contributions to the baseball project.'' County Manager George Burgess has repeatedly insisted the ballpark will actually use tourist taxes, not CRA money, but Braman has called that plan a ''shell game'' to move money outside the neighborhood's boundaries. ? Finally, Braman's suit argues the ballpark does not serve ''a paramount public purpose,'' which would make it ineligible for government backing. The lawsuit is hardly the only roadblock for the downtown plan. The souring economy has brought the big-ticket projects under increasing scrutiny, and critical votes still lie ahead at both city and county hall. Martinez predicted the case will not end in Echarte's courtroom. ''No matter who wins here,'' he said, ``this is going to be appealed.'' Miami Herald staff writer Michael Vasquez contributed to this report.