May 23, 200422 yr It's taken Willis 12 months and he hasn't learned a third pitch. I don't know if he's stubborn but he sure is ignorant if he thinks he can continue to be a major league starter without it. And if he's not planning on perfecting one by the all-star break he should let the team know so he can finish the year where two-pitch pitchers can be effective: the bullpen. We're trying to repeat here, not coddle youngsters. We've got to play the team that gives us the best chance to compete. And right now Phelps would make a better starter than either of them.
May 23, 200422 yr It's taken Willis 12 months and he hasn't learned a third pitch. I don't know if he's stubborn but he sure is ignorant if he thinks he can continue to be a major league starter without it. And if he's not planning on perfecting one by the all-star break he should let the team know so he can finish the year where two-pitch pitchers can be effective: the bullpen. We're trying to repeat here, not coddle youngsters. We've got to play the team that gives us the best chance to compete. And right now Phelps would make a better starter than either of them. One: How do you know that Dontrelle isn't working on a new pitch now? Two: It's Wayne Rosenthal's job to help him in that endevour.
May 23, 200422 yr He was actually working this offseason on the change-up he once threw, but that didn't pan out so well.
May 23, 200422 yr One: How do you know that Dontrelle isn't working on a new pitch now? Two: It's Wayne Rosenthal's job to help him in that endevour. How do you know he's not? That question is easily :lol Little outside response here... I remember you and scores of other people praising Wayne, who has been an outstanding coach, who has done miracles with your entire staff and now it's his fault?
May 23, 200422 yr Maybe Rosenthal can teach him the Knuckleball that would sure keep hitters off balance. :lol
May 23, 200422 yr It could help mask the control problems. After he throws a 20 or 30 pitch inning he could rely more on the knuckler and not blow him arm.
May 23, 200422 yr It's taken Willis 12 months and he hasn't learned a third pitch. I don't know if he's stubborn but he sure is ignorant if he thinks he can continue to be a major league starter without it. And if he's not planning on perfecting one by the all-star break he should let the team know so he can finish the year where two-pitch pitchers can be effective: the bullpen. We're trying to repeat here, not coddle youngsters. We've got to play the team that gives us the best chance to compete. And right now Phelps would make a better starter than either of them. And how would you know if he is or isn't working on a third pitch? Do you really think it's that easy to say" I want to throw a cutter" and throw that into your repertoire? Would a successful third pitch make him a better pitcher? Obviously, but it isn't as simple as you try and make it out to be. It took Loiaza half his career to figure out his out pitch...and now that he's finally done it, he's become a dominant starter. Things like that aren't overnight. It takes time and if you think Rosenthal isn't trying to teach Dontrelle a 3rd pitch, well, I wouldn't be calling anyone ignorant if I were you. Willis is young...if you're honestly saying to throw away our future to increase our chances of winning ever so slightly (do you really think TOMMY PHELPS would be a huge upgrade over Willis? Please), you're nuts. no one is "coddling" Dontrelle, but he's a kid and kids learn with experience, learn from their mistakes. He's a GOOD pitcher right now and will only get better.
May 23, 200422 yr Oliver in the pen, Bump to the Isotopes, AJ and DW in the rotation. Have A Nice Day! Oliver in the pen would cost us more games than he does in the starting rotation. Fact. Oliver in the rotation would cost us even more games. FACT Actually Oliver for the most part of the season as started games off good its usually the 3rd and 4th innings is when he gets racked so maybe the pen isnt a bad idea for him. My 2,000 post.
May 23, 200422 yr I remember you and scores of other people praising Wayne, who has been an outstanding coach, who has done miracles with your entire staff and now it's his fault? Well, he IS the pitching coach. It's his job to guide Dontrelle and help introduce him to a new pitch.
May 23, 200422 yr I remember you and scores of other people praising Wayne, who has been an outstanding coach, who has done miracles with your entire staff and now it's his fault? Well, he IS the pitching coach. It's his job to guide Dontrelle and help introduce him to a new pitch. So your saying Rosenthal is a bad pitching coach and contradicting past statements you have made on him? Willis is the one person who's going to decide if he's going to get better and how much he wants to learn and trying to do that as a starter isn't going to help. The Bullpen is the best place for him until everything is worked out
May 23, 200422 yr So your saying Rosenthal is a bad pitching coach and contradicting past statements you have made on him? 1: I never said he was a bad coach, nor did I imply it. 2: I never remember making such lush comments about Rosenthal, although I do think he is a good coach.
May 23, 200422 yr And then when he pitches another lights out game you will change your mind about how good he is.then when he has another bad one you will say to put him in the pen..its the natural thing here on these boards.
May 23, 200422 yr http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...45&hl=rosenthal From that post, it seems you implied that Rosenthal is helping the staff reach it's full potential and I really doubt you think this is the best Willis can get.
May 23, 200422 yr It can take years to learn a pitch. Rosenthal has to work on his windup and mechanics before he can learn another pitch. Dontrelle and the knuckleball....hmmm. :mischief2 That wouldn't be fair to the hitters....GOOD! BREWHAHAHAHA
May 23, 200422 yr The real problem with Dontrelle today was Miguel Cabrera whose play (or lack thereof) in right field was so atrocious he ought to be benched or moved to left if he can't get the job done. The homer run in the ninth did not in any way make up for his god awful play today. Why in the name of god Jack didn't start Cabs in left and Nunez in right (since Conine was at first) I have no idea. We're going to lose a ton of games between now and Sept with Cabs in right. He's made two memorable catches but for the most part he's stunk up the joint. Willis didn't deserve to lose this game today, tough luck.
May 23, 200422 yr Today's game wasn't so bad. We played ball with Johnson, the bullpen played well, DW did well mostly, and had it not been for that inning, the offense had 3 runs on the board and would have won. We will get Webb tomorrow.
May 23, 200422 yr http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...45&hl=rosenthal From that post, it seems you implied that Rosenthal is helping the staff reach it's full potential and I really doubt you think this is the best Willis can get. That post was six months ago. And the rotation DID reach its full potential last season. Now Dontrelle isn't, it's his job to help turn that around.
May 24, 200422 yr The sky is falling, the sky is falling. I think they're plenty of teams around the league that would take what Willis is doing from their 4th starter. Once AJ comes back and Willis becomes our defacto 5 I guarentee you that most teams would kill for that kind of production from their 5. No doubt about it, long term he needs another pitch if he wants to go to the next level and be a top of the rotation guy, but he's fine with what he's got right now to be a 4-5 starter. As a rule you don't add new pitches in season. Futher what would help Willis more than anything is improved command and as others have pointed out thats exactly what our pitching coach is working with him on.
May 24, 200422 yr I know I'm chiming in late, but honestly, the fifth inning was as much Miguel Cabrera's fault as it was Dontrelle's. First, he probably could have gotten the first run out at home (which also would have been the third out) if he didn't drop the ball, and the ball that got over his head shouldn't have, his first step was in on the ball which is an absolute sin for an outfielder. Willis had one bad stretch where balls just ended up out of reach, no need to overreact, he looked good today for the most part. Also, my stupid little superstitions are starting to be more true: Dontrelle always pitches poorly in the Sunday jersey, he seems more effective in the black and silver one...believe what you will :whistle
May 24, 200422 yr i'm going to have to agree with all of you who noted cabs' horrendous fifth inning out in RF. he's got a great arm, but at times it seems the kid has absolutely no range out there. i don't know if it's a lack of hustle, a lack of speed, or a lack of instinct, but there's no way the dbacks would have put up 4 runs in that inning were it not for his poor play. that said, the dtrain continues to disappoint. my god he needs some work. hands down, he is our most inconsistent starter. obviously oliver is the worst, but at least he's consistently bad. :lol
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