Penny has actually made improvements while Willis has conttinually regressed since last year.

And where was Penny at when he was 22? That's right, being as inconsistent a starter as Dontrelle is now if not worse.

 

I don't want to open up an old can of worms...But I will to furthur prove my point. Tonights game just proves everything I was saying. Willis is 22 and you're bound to get inconsistency from him. Tonight we saw the good...the last 2-3 starts we saw the bad. There really is no gray area with him but that's something we'll just have to live until he matures fully. He's 5-3 with a 3.98 ERA. Send him to the pen? Absurd.

Penny was 22 last year when he stopped sucking? Huh? If you're not going to read someone's posts and follow the discussion why bother replying?

 

And tonight? You mean the makings of yet another Willis start of 5 innings of mediocre work until he got defensive help and the Mets started swinging at early pitches?

 

We're in a pennant race. We must try to win, not worry about a kid who hasn't invested the effort to learn a third pitch and continue to be a major league starter. Phelps starting and Willis in the bullpen makes the team better than Willis starting and Phelps in the 'pen. Simple as that.

pretty mediocre that four-hitter.

pretty mediocre reading comprehension

rferry, I think you are going a bit over board here. common, the kid gave tonight an excellent performance. 5-3 with 3.89 ERA, I'll take it.

 

The Mets were expecting a struggling Willis and were patient during the first 5 innings. Results, Willis was locating strike one and two with ease. I even think I saw the pitch before the HR from Zeile being very close to the strike zone and possible Strike 3. He got in trouble due to a Cabrera crap play.

 

Then the Mets started being aggressive and it was downhill after that.

 

On Dontrelle, as long as he has good control of the strike zone, he will give you quality starts. Can't ask much more from a 22 year old.

pretty mediocre reading comprehension

 

pretty mediocre argument

How the hell can you bash a guy for a four hitter?

rferry, I think you are going a bit over board here. common, the kid gave tonight an excellent performance. 5-3 with 3.89 ERA, I'll take it.

 

The Mets were expecting a struggling Willis and were patient during the first 5 innings. Results, Willis was locating strike one and two with ease. I even think I saw the pitch before the HR from Zeile being very close to the strike zone and possible Strike 3. He got in trouble due to a Cabrera crap play.

 

Then the Mets started being aggressive and it was downhill after that.

 

On Dontrelle, as long as he has good control of the strike zone, he will give you quality starts. Can't ask much more from a 22 year old.

Downhill? You mean swinging at borderline strikes to give Willis 2 innings on 12 pitches? If I were Willis I'd be thanking the Mets for making life so easy and turning in a very average 3-hit 2-walk 5-inning outing with a lot of hard hit outs (how many lineouts? how many warning track flies?) into something good.

 

 

And to the Red Sox fan, if you had any rookies to follow on your team you'd know how frustrating it is to see your prospects refuse to play up to their talent and work to improve their game. That's my number one beef with Willis.

refuse to play up to their talent and work to improve their game. That's my number one beef with Willis.

Please, backup this statement. All I hear from the coaching staff is that Willis works very hard.

Reread the thread

Gotta love it when people are arguing in the D-Train thread after he BROUGHT IT tonight.....

 

Reread the thread

 

I agree with AGonzalez11.

Gotta give the props to the Train tonight. Great start. The stadium was electric after that slipup inning.

 

That being said, so we get more of this and less of the bad I still believe he should develop a third pitch. But no sense knocking him after he pitched his heart out.

Penny was 22 last year when he stopped sucking? Huh? If you're not going to read someone's posts and follow the discussion why bother replying?

 

And tonight? You mean the makings of yet another Willis start of 5 innings of mediocre work until he got defensive help and the Mets started swinging at early pitches?

 

We're in a pennant race. We must try to win, not worry about a kid who hasn't invested the effort to learn a third pitch and continue to be a major league starter. Phelps starting and Willis in the bullpen makes the team better than Willis starting and Phelps in the 'pen. Simple as that.

Man..you want to talk about poor reading comprehension...why dont YOU go back and reread what I said?

what is dontrelle's new batterrrr songgggg? ughhhh.

 

i loathe my lack of popular radio music knowledge. blast! :banghead

Gotta give the props to the Train tonight. Great start. The stadium was electric after that slipup inning.

 

That being said, so we get more of this and less of the bad I still believe he should develop a third pitch. But no sense knocking him after he pitched his heart out.

Yeah he had a great outing...nice to see. We all know he needs to develop that 3rd pitch but it will take time as people have said. Dontrelle is very inconsistent. Rferry god forbid you give credit to Dontrelle for having a combined 12 pitch inning, maybe he threw good pitches, oh yeah I forgot the hitters just suck...and Dontrelle was lucky. If there was a more viable option for a 5th starter then I would be all for the move to the bullpen.

Before tonight, Dontrelle was 5-3 with a 3.99 ERA as our 4th starter, soon to be our 5th, once his 10th start works in his numbers will even improve. He may be the best 4th man in the game and will be the best 5th without a doubt.

 

Pen? You guys are crazy.

Before tonight, Dontrelle was 5-3 with a 3.99 ERA as our 4th starter, soon to be our 5th, once his 10th start works in his numbers will even improve. He may be the best 4th man in the game and will be the best 5th without a doubt.

 

Pen? You guys are crazy.

He isnt the best fourth or fifth(I'd take Matt Clement or Carlos Zambrano over him at this point) but he's close. People calling for his demotion are just spoiled that he doesn't come up and dominate as a 22 year old like some of our other hyped up pitchers have in the past...Burnett and Beckett have made it seem like the norm when in reality it's far from it. There's bumps in the road for any kid and Dontrelle is incredibly mature to be putting up the numbers he is...considering his stuff doesn't even come NEAR what Burnett or Beckett have...and once he DOES add a 3rd and possibly even fourth pitch...welll...you get the point.

Burnett and Beckett have made it seem like the norm when in reality it's far from it. There's bumps in the road for any kid

Shoot, seems to me Mr. Beckett is still having said bumps.

 

[/irrelevant off-topic post]

It's the thought that counts Hugg

rferry, learn to read.

 

When Penny was 22, he wasn't making significant strides into the next season. He's been inconsistent his whole career until last postseason and this postseason. I'm glad he's turned the corner. Willis has yet to play a whole fuuuing season in the majors, and you complain about inconsistency? What the hell? Willis is gonna be a badass starter, but he needs to learn still. He isn't gonna become a badass starter if he's in the pen.

I keep on hearing the argument that Willis doesn't have to be good just good enough for a 5th starter. Why do we want an average 5th starter (Willis) and an average reliever (Phelps) when we could have an average 5th starter (Phelps) and a good reliever (Willis)? Have we given up on defending the title, and declared the upteenth youth movement the club has gone through?

Why can't Willis learn out in the bullpen? He has more time to sit and practice the grip of a new pitch, and can throw it out of harms way in the bullpen every other day while warming up. It's not like he's going to lose everything he learned as a starter.

I keep on hearing the argument that Willis doesn't have to be good just good enough for a 5th starter. Why do we want an average 5th starter (Willis) and an average reliever (Phelps) when we could have an average 5th starter (Phelps) and a good reliever (Willis)? Have we given up on defending the title, and declared the upteenth youth movement the club has gone through?

Why can't Willis learn out in the bullpen? He has more time to sit and practice the grip of a new pitch, and can throw it out of harms way in the bullpen every other day while warming up. It's not like he's going to lose everything he learned as a starter.

He won't progress as a starter in the bullpen, either...and correct me If im mistaken, but that's his future here....a starter.

 

Question rferry: Where would we be now if we showed the ridiculous amount of impatience with Penny and Beckett? Would we have won the WS if we shoved them to the pen a few years back when they were getting shelled because all they threw was their fastball? Simple answer is no

 

Willis is on this team to start now and in the future...Phelps is a marginal upgrade if one at all...Is that worth stalling Willis' development? Another simple answer: Nope. I understand you want to repeat, but you can't be that narrow minded and completely trash your future in the process.

Question rferry: Where would we be now if we showed the ridiculous amount of impatience with Penny and Beckett? Would we have won the WS if we shoved them to the pen a few years back when they were getting shelled because all they threw was their fastball? Simple answer is no

That was another time when 80 wins was seen as an achievement. Willis is on a team that is shooting for 90-100 wins this year and to win the title again. We can't wait for him to progress we need him now to perform in the role he can most help the team.

 

And I don't think this will halt Dontrelle's development. Tell me how pitching quite regularly, performing in jam situations and being surrounded by 5-6 other pitchers and the bullpen coach can't help him to become a better starter next year? Actually it would seem to be that would be more valuable than watching the game in the dugout and having just 3 times a week to pitch (1-2 starts, 1-2 inbetween practice throwings).