March 16, 200521 yr I don't think it'll be for Redman -- he (as well as Sanchez) is older than Pierre so the whole replacement thing doesn't make sense to me. I think the Marlins think they already have JP's possible replacement in Eric Reed. A couple of names to keep an eye on...Freddy Sanchez and Ryan Vogelsong. Sanchez, although already 27 now, has solid tools and could be a reasonable backup plan if they lose Gonzalez next season...Vogelsong just as a shot-in-the-dark type of chances Beinfest loves to make....he has good stuff...alot like Pavano before his trade to Florida -- good stuff, bad luck with injuries and needs a change of scenery. I am NOT saying he's going to become as good as Pavano or anything like that -- just saying he could be a guy Beinfest takes a look at. I wouldn't mind signing Sanchez at all if the price were right (IE: below $1mil). If they do sign him however, hopefully they arent under the impression that hes going to REPLACE Pierre -- just simply a backup plan and insurance in case Conine isn't healthy.
March 16, 200521 yr a backup plan and insurance in case Conine isn't healthy. 711904[/snapback] That's Encarnacion, not Sanchez. We don't need 3 slap hitters in the lineup (two of whom would be below average defensively) when we could have (at the least) a solid to gold-glove calibre right fielder in Encarnacion...
March 16, 200521 yr First off, I think Enc will be a decent player again (with potential for more), much like 2003. Last year was an aberration IMO. If we trade him we are losing the possibility that we have a breakout year from our RF this year. We know what we can get from Conine, and it's possible Encarnacion could eclipse that if we keep him. Also, we would be losing a lot of range and some arm strength. It is highly unlikely Conine will be healthy all year. If we don't have Enc, it probably opens the door for Willingham which may not be a bad thing. I'd really like to see Willingham get some real ML playing time, and this is probably the only chance he'd get.
March 16, 200521 yr In his career theres a 30 point difference in BA. 30 percentage points is a lot 711901[/snapback] I put much more stock in what he's doing now. Why do you we need pitching? Blahblahyoucanneverhavetoomuchpitchingblahblah. We have enough good relievers. We have some good options at AAA and AA. Olsen, Kensing and Bazardo should be ready to replace Leiter and Valdez (Bump, Wayne, Hutch could replace him) in the rotation next year. Maybe the Pirates could re-fill our top minors with prospects. Catcher and infielders are in need.
March 16, 200521 yr I like Tike Redman a lot as a player, and I wouldn't mind having Sanchez on the bench by any means. I doubt we trade for relief pitching, considering our bullpen is already jam-packed.
March 16, 200521 yr a backup plan and insurance in case Conine isn't healthy. 711904[/snapback] That's Encarnacion, not Sanchez. We don't need 3 slap hitters in the lineup (two of whom would be below average defensively) when we could have (at the least) a solid to gold-glove calibre right fielder in Encarnacion... 711906[/snapback] You seem to be forgetting that Encarnacion is set to make $4.5 million this year -- you don't pay a "backup" that much money -- I don't care how much you may like him. What happened to the whole "dump Encarnacion for a bag of baseballs" wagon? Are you guys really that fickle to allow a half decent spring change your minds? If Beinfest can replace Encarnacion with Sanchez(or Redman...) he HAS to do it -- the 3-4 million we'd save would be invaluable at the trade deadline. Also...who are you saying is below average defensively? Sanchez and who? God help you if you meant Pierre or Castillo.....
March 16, 200521 yr a backup plan and insurance in case Conine isn't healthy. 711904[/snapback] That's Encarnacion, not Sanchez. We don't need 3 slap hitters in the lineup (two of whom would be below average defensively) when we could have (at the least) a solid to gold-glove calibre right fielder in Encarnacion... 711906[/snapback] You seem to be forgetting that Encarnacion is set to make $4.5 million this year -- you don't pay a "backup" that much money -- I don't care how much you may like him. What happened to the whole "dump Encarnacion for a bag of baseballs" wagon? Are you guys really that fickle to allow a half decent spring change your minds? If Beinfest can replace Encarnacion with Sanchez(or Redman...) he HAS to do it -- the 3-4 million we'd save would be invaluable at the trade deadline. 711947[/snapback] We'd have to pay half of his $4.5 million salary. And then pay for whoever we get, so by the end of it all we may be saving $1 million while now with a player that we don't really need, i.e. another slap hitter.
March 16, 200521 yr OK, then forget Sanchez. If you can trade Encarnacion and get something of value (even a middling prospect would be nice), it'd be nice. Clears some salary and opens up more playing time for Willingham, who may not be as great as an asset at corner outfield but is arguably better than Enc and Conine. And Aguila, who BaseballProspectus had this to say: "the difference between Aguila and Juan Encarnacion is virtually nil, save for the money guaranteed to the veteran." Also...who are you saying is below average defensively? Sanchez and who? God help you if you meant Pierre or Castillo..... 711947[/snapback] Pretty sure he means Pierre. He's not the only one who feels that way. He covers up a lot of his misplays with excellent speed. That noodle of an arm has cost the team some bases.
March 16, 200521 yr a backup plan and insurance in case Conine isn't healthy. 711904[/snapback] That's Encarnacion, not Sanchez. We don't need 3 slap hitters in the lineup (two of whom would be below average defensively) when we could have (at the least) a solid to gold-glove calibre right fielder in Encarnacion... 711906[/snapback] You seem to be forgetting that Encarnacion is set to make $4.5 million this year -- you don't pay a "backup" that much money -- I don't care how much you may like him. What happened to the whole "dump Encarnacion for a bag of baseballs" wagon? Are you guys really that fickle to allow a half decent spring change your minds? If Beinfest can replace Encarnacion with Sanchez(or Redman...) he HAS to do it -- the 3-4 million we'd save would be invaluable at the trade deadline. 711947[/snapback] We'd have to pay half of his $4.5 million salary. And then pay for whoever we get, so by the end of it all we may be saving $1 million while now with a player that we don't really need, i.e. another slap hitter. 711948[/snapback] The more $ we take on the better player we'll get in return -- you saw it with the Urbina deal we made with the Rangers. If they make Beinfest take on a significant amount of salary -- we'll get a solid return -- if they take on most of the deal -- we rid ourself of Encarnacion's terrible deal. Win-win situation. I'm not a big fan of having another slap hitter either -- but I'd much rather have Sanchez than Encarnacion at this point. At least Sanchez will make contact -- Encarnacion and Gonzalez might be possibly the two worst contact hitters in baseball and we have them batting back-to-back. they are the epitome of rally killers.
March 16, 200521 yr Author What do the Marlins need at this point? They aren't going to go after a fifth starter, bullpen help or a closer right now because they expect the guys on the current roster to do the job. If at midseason they haven't done a good job, then it will be addressed at that point I reckon. Maybe an established utility outfielder off the bench. That's the only thing I can think of. Encarnacion for Redman is one OF for another. It doesn't make much sense for me if we have to put up half the bill anyway. Maybe minor league prospects to deepen our farm system a bit. I'm not sure how expendable he is for Pittsburgh, as I think he's probably the leading candidate to be their fifth starter, Dave Williams is intriguing. He's a lefty with 3 years experience, meaning he can be had for cheap for at least 3 more years. Was decent last year, and might be good for AAA or as a sixth starter in emergencies.
March 16, 200521 yr OK, then forget Sanchez. If you can trade Encarnacion and get something of value (even a middling prospect would be nice), it'd be nice. Clears some salary and opens up more playing time for Willingham, who may not be as great as an asset at corner outfield but is arguably better than Enc and Conine. And Aguila, who BaseballProspectus had this to say: "the difference between Aguila and Juan Encarnacion is virtually nil, save for the money guaranteed to the veteran." This was my exact thought when I read the article. It allows us to keep Willingham up on the main roster getting more at bats at the major league level. Although if we are going to pay a cetain amount I would be interested to see what kind of start during the regular season Enc gets off to first
March 16, 200521 yr i dont think we should trade him. I have a feeling hes going to have a good year if he stays healthy. i'd hate to see him go and see he had one of his best years with another team. after all i've heard about Sanchez, i dont think it'd be worth it. Id rather keep what we have.
March 16, 200521 yr I think its possible the Marlins might be looking for a better 5th starter than we have in Valdez, the guy had a 5+ ERA even with playing most of his games in Dodgertown or the Pro, so maybe a trade for Mark Redman is a possibility. He really excelled here, he was out most consistant starter during the regular season of 2003, I for one would be thrilled to have him back. But that is just my wish, I'm sure if their is to be a trade that Mr. Beinfest will make the right decision... now thats confidence in your front officer
March 16, 200521 yr I'd be all for a Redman for Enc deal. Red is a definite improvement over Valdez. I'd be satisfied if we got a decent prospect for Enc, though. and no thanks on Alex Sanchez unless his role is strictly coming off the bench.
March 16, 200521 yr OK, then forget Sanchez. If you can trade Encarnacion and get something of value (even a middling prospect would be nice), it'd be nice. Clears some salary and opens up more playing time for Willingham, who may not be as great as an asset at corner outfield but is arguably better than Enc and Conine. And Aguila, who BaseballProspectus had this to say: "the difference between Aguila and Juan Encarnacion is virtually nil, save for the money guaranteed to the veteran." Also...who are you saying is below average defensively? Sanchez and who? God help you if you meant Pierre or Castillo..... 711947[/snapback] Pretty sure he means Pierre. He's not the only one who feels that way. He covers up a lot of his misplays with excellent speed. That noodle of an arm has cost the team some bases. 711955[/snapback] When you're roaming around in the deepest part of PPS it really doesn't matter whether it's Steve Finley, Juan Pierre or Preston Wilson, guys are going to move up a base regardless of who's out there. What Pierre does that is so masterfully is cover an enormous amount of territory, not just back and to either side, but in front of him as well. Sure his arm is not the strongest in the league and if someone wants to argue it's less than average, I'm not going to take up the fight to defend him. But for every runner that might advance solely because of his arm there's two guys sitting in the dugout having just flied out when most centerfielders would have allowed them to wind up at second base with a standup double. All players have strengths and weaknesses. Pierre is no different. But when you weigh the pluses and minuses, he's as good it gets based on the talent he has.
March 16, 200521 yr Good post Chin, but if Enc is traded (since it's not our call) getting a kid like Tike in return would be a h*lluva move. I'm with you on Cabrera in right 100%. He's said so himself. He's a guy who needs to stay on the left side of the field. 711832[/snapback] Replace one unwanted player with another?? The Pittsburgh-friggin-Pirates dont want this guy...
March 16, 200521 yr I think its possible the Marlins might be looking for a better 5th starter than we have in Valdez, the guy had a 5+ ERA even with playing most of his games in Dodgertown or the Pro, so maybe a trade for Mark Redman is a possibility. He really excelled here, he was out most consistant starter during the regular season of 2003, I for one would be thrilled to have him back. But that is just my wish, I'm sure if their is to be a trade that Mr. Beinfest will make the right decision... now thats confidence in your front officer 712112[/snapback] Petco :plain
March 17, 200521 yr Author They gave Valdez a decently large contract, they're at least going to give him a chance.
March 17, 200521 yr If Enc were moved for a non OF player, that could open up some more PT for Willingham imo, its already a + :mischief anyway, Enc for a guy like Blair Johnson or Bobbie Bradley or Joe Bauserman would be swell
March 17, 200521 yr Petco :plain 712159[/snapback] Opps, my bad, well the moral is the same, lol, two ridiculously friendly pitchers parks, and he still performs well below par. And while I agree we did give him a decent contract, which implies he is going to get his shot, Redman is cheaper, and if we are going to perhaps spend some money or take on payroll down the stretch why not start downsizing now? Especially if we can get a better player for cheaper. But I guess I'd still be happy getting some prospects for him, if we don't get a major league ready player, never to early to start planning for the future.
March 17, 200521 yr Petco :plain 712159[/snapback] Opps, my bad, well the moral is the same, lol, two ridiculously friendly pitchers parks, and he still performs well below par. And while I agree we did give him a decent contract, which implies he is going to get his shot, Redman is cheaper, and if we are going to perhaps spend some money or take on payroll down the stretch why not start downsizing now? Especially if we can get a better player for cheaper. But I guess I'd still be happy getting some prospects for him, if we don't get a major league ready player, never to early to start planning for the future. 712375[/snapback] But the fact is he's not a better player, or else Pittsburgh wouldnt we going crazy ttrying to put together a trade... .280/8/51 with a .310 OBP is nothing special, and hes 28 and approaching his prime, If we trade ENC, don't expect just Redman in return, and don't expect to keep him...
March 17, 200521 yr I'd rather have Encarnacion. From what I gather, Sanchez is a fast, light-hitting, poor fielder. And for a fast guy, he doesn't walk, so I wouldn't put him in the lead-off spot. I just don't know what I'd do with him, other than have him pinch-run.
March 17, 200521 yr All players have strengths and weaknesses. 712122[/snapback] Not Luis Castillo. He's perfect in every way.
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