Posted April 13, 200520 yr First off, let me say that the complete games are very encouraging, and are indicative of what I think is becoming one of the premier starting staffs in MLB. BUT.... Anyone else have memories of Torborg come popping up lately? Remember him overworking SP's early on and then having to pay the piper in the form of DL visits and dead arms as the season grinded into August and September? Come September in the middle of a pennant chase no one is going to give a squirt of pee on a hot day how many CG's the staff had when there was still snow on the ground up north.
April 13, 200520 yr Except the complete game Trelle had was at 97 pitches, and AJ's I think was under 100 or right at 100. Becketts was what, 110? This isn't Dusty Baker and his routine abuse of Prior and Wood.
April 13, 200520 yr First off, let me say that the complete games are very encouraging, and are indicative of what I think is becoming one of the premier starting staffs in MLB. BUT.... Anyone else have memories of Torborg come popping up lately? Remember him overworking SP's early on and then having to pay the piper in the form of DL visits and dead arms as the season grinded into August and September? Come September in the middle of a pennant chase no one is going to give a squirt of pee on a hot day how many CG's the staff had when there was still snow on the ground up north. 740371[/snapback] That would be a concern if pitch counts were really high. But so far none of the CG's really had out of the ordinary pitch counts... Except maybe Beckett's 113....but today AJ threw 103 and Dtrain only threw 97 in his.
April 13, 200520 yr AJ had 103 But I share some of the concerns, I felt the bullpen should have been rdy on the 9th just in case
April 13, 200520 yr Pitching counts are far more significant than innings pitched. What's the difference between a pitcher throwing 7 innings and having 110 pitches and a pitcher throwing 9 innings and throwing 110 pitches also? You're worried about something that's not a big deal. As long as pitch counts are under control, let the pitchers go however long they remain effective.
April 13, 200520 yr Not today anyways. If it was consecutive, we might have a problem.. 740378[/snapback] ???
April 13, 200520 yr its not like they're randy johnson throwing 140 pitches or 126 or whatever....combined 3 complete games they've thrown 310 pitches...thats averaging 103.33 pitches per start. thats nothing. absolutely nothing. and pitch count is overrated anyway, its how much tehy work in their starts, runners on base and pressure situations. they're doing awesome.
April 13, 200520 yr No, what worries me is a mid-season slump like the one they had last year after pitching deep in spring trainign games and came roaring out of the gate.
April 13, 200520 yr Except the complete game Trelle had was at 97 pitches, and AJ's I think was under 100 or right at 100. Becketts was what, 110? This isn't Dusty Baker and his routine abuse of Prior and Wood. 740375[/snapback] AJ had 103, Beckett had 110
April 13, 200520 yr Ya pitch counts weren't very high and they won't usually get that much above 100 unless they are going for the complete game.
April 13, 200520 yr I think we're looking too close at pitch counts.....our own pitching coach doesn't believe in them.
April 13, 200520 yr Jack has been working on building up the arm strength of his starters all spring. They will easily be able to go 120 per start by summer. 100-110 right now is going to be easy as pie to our starters. Its called conditioning your arm to actually pitch like you are supposed to. No worries at all. :hat
April 13, 200520 yr no worries is correct, like we shouldn't be worrying, everyone is pitching so fluidly, at least our top three, al is going to be al, and he will do his thing..the way they are pitching now, they could all have 40 starts and pitch 40 complete games each with their arms being fine...they're not working hard at all, like tonight AJ had 1 runner left on base with 3 double plays.. the other two of the 6 hits scored, and no walks...very important. trusting the defense and having the ball put in play is very big. also he only had 3 strikeouts...maybe he's learning how to pitch?
April 13, 200520 yr just gettin up the arm strength.. no problem. thats why you see some 4 man rotations early in the year
April 13, 200520 yr I don't believe Jack will continue to use his starting pitchers the way he has this week for much longer. He's teaching them to be winners, that they can be winners, that the have what it takes. These games this week will give Beckett, Burnett and Willis something they can call upon later in the season.
April 13, 200520 yr The only thing that bugs me is Mota hasn't gotten a save chance yet. However, I'm MUCH more worried about Al throwing 114 pitches in 5 innings than AJ throwing 103 in 9. He'll be fine, and might say he's stressing his arm by gasing 98 in the ninth, but that's not putting any extra stress on his arm as compared to someone throwing 91 MPH in the ninth, either way you're throwing with all you can. You know Jack wouldn't have let him go out there if his arm didn't feel 100%.
April 13, 200520 yr I don't believe Jack will continue to use his starting pitchers the way he has this week for much longer. He's teaching them to be winners, that they can be winners, that the have what it takes. These games this week will give Beckett, Burnett and Willis something they can call upon later in the season. 740451[/snapback] I think Jack will though.
April 13, 200520 yr I'd say the only outing that concerned me was Josh's complete game. By his own account, his body was completely tapped after that final pitch n' dive. It just doesn't seem right to work a guy that hard in his second start of the season, particularly after he bats twice during a half-hour bottom of the eighth inning. You don't just toss 100 pitches, run around and loiter for half an hour, and then come back and resume pitching in the ninth. Al on the other hand... Al has always averaged a ridiculously high number of pitches per start. His long outing didn't concern me at all; he is by no means a hard-throwing power pitcher.
April 13, 200520 yr I HATE seeing young pitchers throw complete games, but what's been going on is no problem. Under Torborg they routinely threw 120, 130+ pitches a start, and how many complete games did AJ have that year?
April 13, 200520 yr First off, let me say that the complete games are very encouraging, and are indicative of what I think is becoming one of the premier starting staffs in MLB. BUT.... Anyone else have memories of Torborg come popping up lately? Remember him overworking SP's early on and then having to pay the piper in the form of DL visits and dead arms as the season grinded into August and September? Come September in the middle of a pennant chase no one is going to give a squirt of pee on a hot day how many CG's the staff had when there was still snow on the ground up north. 740371[/snapback] I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the SP staff holds up in August and September!
April 13, 200520 yr Heres the way I see it, throwing 100 pitches in 9 innings is more tiring than throwing the same amount in 6 or 7 b/c you have to accoutn for warm up time before innings and so forth. But either way getting the arms ready to go early is a good idea, and if people like willis can throw CG's with under 100 pitches theres no reason to utilize the pen. Starters coming into the 8th or 9th with a low number of pitches thrown is an excellent scenario and also rests the bullpen. So on nights when leiter or valdez pitch, or for w/e reason we do need the pen, theyre fresh and ready to go. The bullpen by the way has been outstanding so far. All this team needs is what moneyballers hate, and thats clutch hitting. Cabrera may have 3 HR's, but I wouldve traded one or even 2 of those in 8 or 9 run games for a run scoring single in one of our one run losses.
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