August 4, 200322 yr Juan Pierre R: 71 AVG: .302 OBP: .365 Luis Castillo R: 72 AVG: .319 OBP: .382 Juan Pierre scores virtually as much as Castillo. BUT, Castillo gets on base more than Pierre does in the first place, this giving him more oppritunities to score. And yet, even though Castillo gets on a good amount more than Pierre, Juan still manages to score almost exactly as much BECAUSE of those stolen bases. I have solved the question. You have to admit, my theory makes genuine sense.
August 4, 200322 yr Juan Pierre R: 71 AVG: .302 OBP: .365 Luis Castillo R: 72 AVG: .319 OBP: .382 Juan Pierre scores virtually as much as Castillo. BUT, Castillo gets on base more than Pierre does in the first place, this giving him more oppritunities to score. And yet, even though Castillo gets on a good amount more than Pierre, Juan still manages to score almost exactly as much BECAUSE of those stolen bases. I have solved the question. You have to admit, my theory makes genuine sense. I hate to say this because I think Pierre's stolen bases help us a lot, but if you look at the stats Pierre has been on base more than Castillo because he has more at bats.
August 4, 200322 yr I hate to say this because I think Pierre's stolen bases help us a lot, but if you look at the stats Pierre has been on base more than Castillo because he has more at bats. Not technically. Because Castillo has many more walks, which don't count toward his at-bats. Pierre doesn't walk as much, therefore has many more at-bats. Add it all up. Don't worry, I thought it out. My theory is correct.
August 4, 200322 yr Pierre: 137 Hits + 41 BB = 178 Castillo: 132 Hits + 42 BB = 174 So they have been on-base nearly as much, and have scored nearly as much. This is an indication that the middle/end of the line-up is driving in both Pierre and Castillo consistantly, no matter where they are on the basepaths, whether it be 1st base or 3rd base.
August 4, 200322 yr You want to know what this is an indication of? That you are over-analyzing this. Stats blow. You can't argue my logic. It all makes sense. :shifty
August 4, 200322 yr You want to know what this is an indication of? That you are over-analyzing this. Stats blow.
August 4, 200322 yr You want to know what this is an indication of? That you are over-analyzing this. Stats blow. so we should sign abe nunez to a 10 year/$330mil deal because of raw talent? stats tell a story, and do not blow
August 4, 200322 yr Author So they have been on-base nearly as much, and have scored nearly as much. This is an indication that the middle/end of the line-up is driving in both Pierre and Castillo consistantly, no matter where they are on the basepaths, whether it be 1st base or 3rd base. That's right Wild Card. Now just go one step further...Pierre and Castillo have been on base nearly as much, and have scored nearly as much...despite the fact that Pierre has 36 more steals.
August 4, 200322 yr I dont understand what your trying to get at here DownRodeo , are you asking why Castillo is scoring just as many runs with alot less SBs or are you just trying to justify that Pierre's SBs are not that important? Regardless what your point is . it is clear to say that SBs have nothing to do with scoring in runs when the Batters arent moving runners home. Base stealing plays a huge part in a pitchers mind (I know first hand) being a former college pitcher , thus throwing off the pitchers game allowing for Castillo to get on more . Castillo and Pierre have almost the same runs scored thats proves what im saying.
August 4, 200322 yr oh sorry left this out , i would bet a kings ransome Castillo wouldnt have as many runs as he does now if it werent for JPs base stealing.
August 4, 200322 yr oh sorry left this out , i would bet a kings ransome Castillo wouldnt have as many runs as he does now if it werent for JPs base stealing. :thumbup
August 4, 200322 yr and pitcher's throw from the stretch when JP is on base...... dont know if it does anything, but just like to add that in
August 4, 200322 yr Ummmm.... Throwing out the statistical inferences between frenchy and Luis for a second.... Could it just be the fact that Juan is batting two and three spots in front of main RBI men, while Luis is batting one and two spots in front? Sorry, just seems like an obvious advantage towards luis, especially with most of the relevant stats between the two being relatively equal.
August 4, 200322 yr Many people think stolen bases are overrated...But most people don't think about what's going through the pitcher's mind when Pierre's on 1st or 2nd base. Pierre being on base means more fastballs from the pitcher,the batter can expect this,which results in more hard hit balls.
August 4, 200322 yr Stats mean nothing..... Let me ammend my previous statements, as I seem to have drawn a negative opinion from them. Stats themselves do not blow, it is the way they are being used that blows. Stats have reached the point where most fans almost need them to survive, and they chug down RISP and OPS like milk in the morning. We crave to know whether or not a hitter will hit a fastball inside better when its 70 degrees or 80. People get pitching splits to see what kind of pitches are thrown to people with varying haircuts. Honestly, enough is freaking enough. Stats are important, they tell us a story about what someone's abilities are to a point. Stats are not all powerful, nor are they all telling. They are not the omnipotent beings many of the members of this board (as well as myself, on some ocasions) make them out to be. Take certain stats with a grain of salt. Stats are important to the analyzation and future strategy of baseball, they are not the only thing that matter. Let me hammer this home further, I'll use a fictional character who we could all associate with. Lets call him Lerrick Dee. Lerrick hits .350 with RISP after 7 Innings or whatever bs stat some people were using back in the Conine thread(s). But come the bottom of the ninth in Game 7 of the NLCS, Lerrick strikes out with runners on second and third. Stats don't tell you whats going to happen, they tell you whats already happened. It is up to the individual to use the past to interpret the future, but in baseball (unlike real life) the past does not always repeat itself. Certain people have different mindsets under different positions. Maybe Lerrick is under some kind of heavy stress do to family problems. Maybe he didn't have the best of days. Maybe he can't get it up, I really don't know or care. Stats aren't something to be relied on all the time. Seriously, this abuse of stats has to stop. Or, to quote one of my favorite movies, "There will be f***ing murders!"
August 4, 200322 yr And btw, when we were arguing about Lee's value you would time and again cite RISP numbers, so lets be a little consistent here.
August 4, 200322 yr Nice post juanky except for one thing. I know and so do nearly all stat-heads that study the game of baseball cannont be fully explained away by statistics. When it comes to player evaluation, which is what statistics tries to accomplish quantitatively, a healthy mix of the subjective and objective is the most correct approach IMO. Its your lack of that mix that (the stats side) that leads you to the incorrect conclusion that we rely solely on statistics, which we do not. So we take our love of the game one step further....there should be no need to criticize each sides methods, which I have definitely done. I hope what I wanted to say came out somewhat clear.
August 4, 200322 yr And btw, when we were arguing about Lee's value you would time and again cite RISP numbers, so lets be a little consistent here.
August 4, 200322 yr And btw, when we were arguing about Lee's value you would time and again cite RISP numbers, so lets be a little consistent here.
August 4, 200322 yr Nice post juanky except for one thing. I know and so do nearly all stat-heads that study the game of baseball cannont be fully explained away by statistics. When it comes to player evaluation, which is what statistics tries to accomplish quantitatively, a healthy mix of the subjective and objective is the most correct approach IMO. Its your lack of that mix that (the stats side) that leads you to the incorrect conclusion that we rely solely on statistics, which we do not. So we take our love of the game one step further....there should be no need to criticize each sides methods, which I have definitely done. I hope what I wanted to say came out somewhat clear. I like stats and take them as they come. I refuse however to go into stupid depth stats like how much farther will be the ball fly if the wind is .1 MPH faster. And moi with the Lee numbers? I'm not so sure you are talking to the right person. No need to post three times
August 4, 200322 yr Wow, almost two pages before the thread starts devolving into a D. Lee thread. Impressive control exhibited!!!
August 4, 200322 yr Wow, almost two pages before the thread starts devolving into a D. Lee thread. Impressive control exhibited!!!
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