Experts Fear Endless Terror War

[FutureGM]

Experts fear 'endless' terror war

 

Analysts say al-Qaida is mutating into a global insurgency

 

New York and Washington. Bali, Riyadh, Istanbul, Madrid. And now London.

 

When will it end? Where will it all lead?

 

The experts aren?t encouraged. One prominent terrorism researcher sees the prospect of ?endless? war. Adds the man who tracked Osama bin Laden for the CIA, ?I don?t think it?s even started yet.?

 

An Associated Press survey of longtime students of international terrorism finds them ever more convinced, in the aftermath of London?s bloody Thursday, that the world has entered a long siege in a new kind of war. They believe that al-Qaida is mutating into a global insurgency, a possible prototype for other 21st-century movements, technologically astute, almost leaderless. And the way out is far from clear.

 

In fact, says Michael Scheuer, the ex-CIA analyst, rather than move toward solutions, the United States took a big step backward by invading Iraq.

 

Now, he said, ?we?re at the point where jihad is self-sustaining,? where Islamic ?holy warriors? in Iraq fight America with or without allegiance to al-Qaida?s bin Laden.

 

The cold statistics of a RAND Corp. database show the impact of the explosion of violence in Iraq: The 5,362 deaths from terrorism worldwide between March 2004 and March 2005 were almost double the total for the same 12-month period before the 2003 U.S. invasion.

 

Thursday?s attacks on London?s transit system mirrored last year?s bombings of Madrid commuter trains, and both point to an al-Qaida evolving into a movement whose isolated leaders offer video or Internet inspiration ? but little more ? to local ?jihadists? who carry out the strikes.

 

Although no arrests have been made in the London attacks, a group using al-Qaida?s name made a claim of responsibility, otherwise unconfirmed. Experts say the bombings bore hallmarks of al-Qaida.

 

The movement?s evolution ?has given rise to a ?virtual network? that is extremely adaptable,? said Jonathan Stevenson, of the International Institute for Strategic Studies? Washington office.

 

The movement adapted, for example, by switching from targeting aviation, where security was reinforced after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, to the ?softer? targets of mass transit.

 

Such compartmentalized groupings, in touch electronically but with little central control, ?are going to be a prototype for understanding where terrorist movements are going in the 21st century,? said the University of North Carolina?s Cynthia Combs, co-author of a terrorism encyclopedia.

 

Combs said the so-called Earth and Animal Liberation fronts in the United States are examples ? if less lethal ones ? of ?leaderless? militant movements based on isolated cells. She also said it?s not unrealistic that another American example ? far-right ?militia? cells ? might make common cause someday with foreign terrorists against the U.S. government.

 

Bruce Hoffman, the veteran RAND Corp. specialist who fears an ?endless war,? dismisses talk of al-Qaida?s ?back? having been ?broken? by the capture of some leaders.

 

?From the terrorists? point of view, it seems they have calculated they need to do just one significant terrorist attack a year in another capital, and it regenerates the same fear and anxieties,? said Hoffman, who was an adviser to the U.S. occupation in Iraq.

 

What should be broken, he said, is the cycle of terrorist recruitment through the generations. ?Here you come to the main challenge.?

 

He and most of the other half-dozen experts said the world?s richer powers must address ?underlying causes? ? lessen the appeal of radicalism by improving economies, political rights and education in Arab and Muslim countries.

 

Combs cited bin Laden?s use of Afghanistan as his 1990s headquarters. ?If we hadn?t been ignoring Afghanistan and instead offered real assistance, would it have become a base for bin Laden?? she asked.

 

Not all agree this is an answer. Stephen Sloan, another veteran scholar in the field, prescribes stoicism.

 

The American, British and other target publics must give their intelligence and police agencies time to close ranks globally and crush the challenge, said Sloan, of the University of Central Florida.

 

?The public has to have the resolve to face the reality there will be other incidents,? he said.

 

Scheuer, who headed the CIA?s bin Laden unit for nine years, sees a different way out ? through U.S. foreign policy. He said he resigned last November to expose the U.S. leadership?s ?willful blindness? to what needs to be done: withdraw the U.S. military from the Mideast, end ?unqualified support? for Israel, sever close ties to Arab oil-state ?tyrannies.?

 

He acknowledged such actions aren?t likely soon, but said his longtime subject bin Laden will ?make us bleed enough to get our attention.? Ultimately, he said, ?his goal is to destroy the Arab monarchies.?

 

For James Kirkhope, the outlook is ?depressing.?

 

His Washington consultancy, Terrorism Research Center, sometimes ?red-teams? for U.S. authorities, playing a role in exercises, thinking like terrorist leaders. That thinking increasingly seems focused on a struggle for Islamic supremacy lasting hundreds of years, he said.

 

And for the moment they just ?want to be kept on our radar screen,? Kirkhope said. For all the terror and carnage, he said, last week?s London attacks carried a simple message: ?We?re still around.?

 

Doesn't sound too promising.

[Craig]

It is endless unfortunately. There will be terrorism as long as there are sick freaks like these guys that don't like democracy and use violence to show it sadly enough.

[Guest Fritz]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

[Accord]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

[FutureGM]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

That's probably true, but we should refrain from speading democracy via invasions anymore.

[Dodge]

Religion breeds war.

[Guest Fritz]

Religion breeds war.

850218[/snapback]

Stupid people using religion as a crux breed war.

[MiamiSpartan]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

[Hotcorner]

Religion breeds war.

850218[/snapback]

Stupid people using religion as a crux breed war.

850320[/snapback]

 

Yep, especially intolerant dogmatic ones.

[FutureGM]

Religion breeds war.

850218[/snapback]

Stupid people using religion as a crux breed war.

850320[/snapback]

 

Yep, especially intolerant dogmatic ones.

850990[/snapback]

We're looking at you too, Focus on the Family.

[MarlinsFan253]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

850780[/snapback]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[bakercolonelreb]

How exactly should I get myself prepared for the draft? Pushups?

 

[OldSand]

How exactly should I get myself prepared for the draft? Pushups?

 

 

 

No silly, play lots of war related videogames.

[Shamrock]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

850780[/snapback]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

851759[/snapback]

If we were serious about reforming the region we would do this. However, the initial plan failed miserably so we'll tuck tail and run it appears. "stay the course!" my ass.

[Accord]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

850780[/snapback]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

851759[/snapback]

If we were serious about reforming the region we would do this. However, the initial plan failed miserably so we'll tuck tail and run it appears. "stay the course!" my ass.

852320[/snapback]

 

Now the resident liberals are bitching and whining about us reducing the number of troops when that is EXACTLY what you've wanted all along, incredible.

 

It's things like this which reveal the true colors of liberals, you don't care about what's going on, all you care about is bashing the administration at any expense.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Shamrock]

Wrong. I didn't support the war, but we are there and f***ing with the lives of millions of people. Not to mention the tremendous instability of the region WE destabilized. The only thing keeping the region from going up in flames is the US military right now. I'm a part of the reality-based community. I'm not sure if I ever said I wanted the troops out, but if I did, it was maybe once when I was angry about the war. Most of my comments have been in support of keeping troops there to help the place stabilize. Stop being an idiot.

 

Not everything is as black and white as you need it to be.

[Shamrock]

By the way I think you lack empathy to an extreme degree. You do whatever Limbaugh and President tells you. We go in there and bomb, destroy, and disorder an entire country in order to get the WMDs, oops, I mean spread our freedoms and ideals. That took a lot of balls. We are there. Now because the majority of the American public thinks (1) Iraq is making us less safe and (2) they fear for the lives of American troops, you are ready yet again to bahbahbahbah the Limbaugh (aka Bush) line. You've been had. Bamboozled. And you have no clue. Have empathy. Place yourself in an ordinary Iraqi's shoes. I know it's difficult. We have an opportunity to keep the s*** from hitting the fan. Don't support withdrawal.

 

I don't hate George Bush, nor do I hate Republicans or conservatives. They have just as much right as any to voice concerns and opinions. Many of them have good ideas and many of them I respect. If anything, I'd say YOU hate liberals and would rather not have to deal with them or hear their side. That saddens me.

[MarlinsFan253]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

850780[/snapback]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

851759[/snapback]

If we were serious about reforming the region we would do this. However, the initial plan failed miserably so we'll tuck tail and run it appears. "stay the course!" my ass.

852320[/snapback]

 

Now the resident liberals are bitching and whining about us reducing the number of troops when that is EXACTLY what you've wanted all along, incredible.

 

It's things like this which reveal the true colors of liberals, you don't care about what's going on, all you care about is bashing the administration at any expense.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

852357[/snapback]

You are actually fairly correct. No matter what Bush does, he will always be wrong to the vast majority of liberals. Even if he did what they wanted, he'd be wrong. It is why I stand in the middle. It is safe there, and it is smart.

[Shamrock]

I think that assessment is not too far off base, but I don't appreciate being lumped into that group.

[bakercolonelreb]

By the way I think you lack empathy to an extreme degree. You do whatever Limbaugh and President tells you. We go in there and bomb, destroy, and disorder an entire country in order to get the WMDs, oops, I mean spread our freedoms and ideals. That took a lot of balls. We are there. Now because the majority of the American public thinks (1) Iraq is making us less safe and (2) they fear for the lives of American troops, you are ready yet again to bahbahbahbah the Limbaugh (aka Bush) line. You've been had. Bamboozled. And you have no clue. Have empathy. Place yourself in an ordinary Iraqi's shoes. I know it's difficult. We have an opportunity to keep the s*** from hitting the fan. Don't support withdrawal.

 

I don't hate George Bush, nor do I hate Republicans or conservatives. They have just as much right as any to voice concerns and opinions. Many of them have good ideas and many of them I respect. If anything, I'd say YOU hate liberals and would rather not have to deal with them or hear their side. That saddens me.

852395[/snapback]

I consider myself a conservative, and I don't really like to get involved with politics too often. That being said, I'd just like to say: Well put, Shamrock. Well put.

[Flying_Mollusk]

You can't kill an ideology, thus the war will never truly end.

849228[/snapback]

 

You can suppress it though, and probably the best way possible is to spread democracy throughout the middle east.

849249[/snapback]

 

You're dreaming if you think you can supress it. Ain't gonna happen. This Iraq war has only succeeded in building up smaller splinter terrorist organizations that hold the same ideals as Al Quida, if they are not affiliated with them. Middle East does not want democracy or any other form of gov't that they feel is from the West.

This war will go on forever, and eventually a draft will have to start to build up the numbers of people we have over there. If you are 25 or younger, get yourself prepared for it...

850780[/snapback]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

851759[/snapback]

If we were serious about reforming the region we would do this. However, the initial plan failed miserably so we'll tuck tail and run it appears. "stay the course!" my ass.

852320[/snapback]

 

Now the resident liberals are bitching and whining about us reducing the number of troops when that is EXACTLY what you've wanted all along, incredible.

 

It's things like this which reveal the true colors of liberals, you don't care about what's going on, all you care about is bashing the administration at any expense.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

852357[/snapback]

 

 

As shamrock said, youve pretty much missed the obvious because you continue to see the world in black and white. Maybe some liberals out there want to bring the troops home. But if you ever actually read anything, you would see the liberals on here in general have been in favor of getting this thing done and done right.

 

Ive always said I dont think a pullout is needed because we have to finish what we started, regardless of if it was started foolishley. To quit now would be to let the nation fall into complete disarray and lead to a crisis much much larger than what we have now. The Iraqi people would suffer an even worse fate.

 

The reasons those opposed to the war keep bringing up the bad things that happen is because it has to be made clear that these are the consequences of rash actions, a reap what you sow view, especially to people who see things in black and white. It has to be made clear that war creates sever consequences both during and after the war for both the people invading and those being invaded. It isnt a stupid video game.

 

The reason Bush is attacked for it is because its his damn legacy. Face the facts: He was quick to declare mission accomlished. So why so quick to deny the mission failures? Why so quick to deny that they absolutley botched the post war situation? If, as he hopes, the region ends up being stabalized, he will be quick to say how this was his hope. But if it falls to shambles, he can flat out deny it and youll buy into it right? Because when things go right, its the conservatives. But when things go wrong, its liberals bitching. Republicans can never do anything wrong.

 

 

Finally, youve flat out missed who is starting to demand troop withdrawal. Its conservatives and republicans. Walter B. Jones Jr. is one of the most conservative congressman out there. He is Mr. Freedom fries. And he is now activley seeking troop withdrawal. And its the American people. More and more Americans have now called for troop removal because its real easy to be pro war but not go through what war takes.

[legacyofCangelosi]

This is the key here

 

"He and most of the other half-dozen experts said the world?s richer powers must address ?underlying causes? ? lessen the appeal of radicalism by improving economies, political rights and education in Arab and Muslim countries"

 

Overacting is bad and underacting is equally dangerous. I made a post about this a few minutes ago in a sifferent thread actually.

[Das Texan]

I hated this stupid skirmish when it started becuase it wasnt needed. There was absolutely zero link between Saddam and 9/11 and I still fully maintain this war was started because of Dubya wanting to finish Daddy's job and its part of his new age imperalism.

 

 

However, now that we are in this joke of a war, there really isnt any way we can leave. We have already brought about major instability to the region because of our presense there. But we cant leave. Once you are there you are there. I think the ground troops are doing the best job they can for what they are given. But there is a lot more that could/should be done. However, I dont blame the troops, cause they can only do so much. I do fully blame the leadership because they have no real exit strategy, never did. There are many that you can point the fingers at but that is useless in the end.

 

I do hate George Bush because there is so much that he has ignored and made worse in the long run. Has he done a few good things? Sure. But the bad far outweighs the good.

 

 

And terrorism will never die. It is all about religion. Look at how many wars that have ultimately been fought over some religious ideal..almost all have in the end. I'm not even sure if a spread of Democracy to the Middle East would solve things...mainly because our idea of Democracy won't fly in the Middle East whether we want to admit that or not. If we are willing to let Democracy take its course in the area and act more as a guide than anything else then it can take off. If we are the ones actively leading the charge, then it wont take off.

 

Take it for what its worth.

[Valyekrin]

Now the resident liberals are bitching and whining about us reducing the number of troops when that is EXACTLY what you've wanted all along, incredible.

 

It's things like this which reveal the true colors of liberals, you don't care about what's going on, all you care about is bashing the administration at any expense.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

852357[/snapback]

 

Actually some of us never wanted to send troops in the first place.