July 25, 200521 yr example for trading a very good pitcher at the deadline Randy Johnson to Houston from Seattle trade to Seattle Carlos Guillen,Freddy Garcia and John Halama this IMO is what Beinfest is waiting for... 874275[/snapback] I dont think they will get that much, but I agree with you that is what they are looking for. I think they will be able to steal away a good pitcher perhaps reliever and a top prospect. But we shall see.
July 26, 200521 yr You shouldn't believe anything Gammons says. The guy is as unreliable as they come when it comes to trade specualation. 874115[/snapback] Gammons is a flat out shill for the Red Sox FO. This is just more Theo ballwashing.
July 26, 200521 yr they might as well rename espn into nesn...they basically cover the sox the same amount...so it doesnt surprise me that they say the red sox want burnett...everyone refers to the stankees as the evil empire...and they are...bunch of rich people who wish to buy the world series every year...but someone explain to me, how the red sox are any different...their organization relys on free agency and picking good players off bad teams with few exceptions (varitek) and not having much of a minor league system...personally i say that if the red sox want burnett, we ask for no less than hanley ramirez...with the past between the organizations, i say we tell the sox who wears the pants in this relationship and to remember that we still have one more title than them in the last 10 years...we are the smarter organization...with all that said...the marlins were built to win with the team they have now...and even if we keep burnett and lose him to free agency...who isnt to say, that with the draft picks we get, we dont find a couple of studs, plus with the money not spent on Aj we could pick up a very useful free agent...i say lets stand put unless we get a steal of an offer...
July 26, 200521 yr You want nugget maybe there nothing to this, but maybe there is..... So do you think there is any truth to the Bill Mueller to Minnesota rumors and Lowell to the Red Sox? Exhibit A: Hanley Ramirez played third base for Portland yesterday. are the Red Sox rethinking there offer?
July 26, 200521 yr You want nugget maybe there nothing to this, but maybe there is..... So do you think there is any truth to the Bill Mueller to Minnesota rumors and Lowell to the Red Sox? Exhibit A: Hanley Ramirez played third base for Portland yesterday. are the Red Sox rethinking there offer? 874379[/snapback] I don't see how that has anything to do with the Marlins. Han-Ram would play SS here, Cabrera will play 3rd if Lowell leaves. All it reinforces is that Edgar Renteria is the long term solution at short for Boston.
July 26, 200521 yr they might as well rename espn into nesn...they basically cover the sox the same amount...so it doesnt surprise me that they say the red sox want burnett...everyone refers to the stankees as the evil empire...and they are...bunch of rich people who wish to buy the world series every year...but someone explain to me, how the red sox are any different...their organization relys on free agency and picking good players off bad teams with few exceptions (varitek) and not having much of a minor league system...personally i say that if the red sox want burnett, we ask for no less than hanley ramirez...with the past between the organizations, i say we tell the sox who wears the pants in this relationship and to remember that we still have one more title than them in the last 10 years...we are the smarter organization...with all that said...the marlins were built to win with the team they have now...and even if we keep burnett and lose him to free agency...who isnt to say, that with the draft picks we get, we dont find a couple of studs, plus with the money not spent on Aj we could pick up a very useful free agent...i say lets stand put unless we get a steal of an offer... 874349[/snapback] Basically the Marlins have 3 options 1. Burnett for Marte/McCarthy 2/ Burnett for Arroyo/Sanchez 3. Keep Burnett Thats probaly about it, thats the best they will be able to do and if they want more they are significantly overvaluing Burnett. In that case they keep Burnett and maybe get some draft picks. And if they dont win the World Series then they just passed up on a young SP/MR and a top SP prospect and they get probaly a 25+ pick in the draft and a 45+ pick in the draft. We dont completely rely on FA, we do sign our share of FAs but most of our team is built on low-profile FA signings and trades. Ortiz was a low-profile guy and hes a superstar now, Varitek was aquired in a trade, Nixon was drafted, Arroyo was a low-profile guy, Mueller was a low-profile signing, etc. And the 1 more World Series in the past 10 years, come on. And the Red Sox have no farm system thing is laughable also.
July 26, 200521 yr Just watched BBTN. Reynolds and Gammons have a new story regarding Burnett. This one is a doozy. If AJ goes to the White Sox, and the White Sox give up Marte they HAVE TO go get Wagner (strong emphasis from both of them)...hmm let's put two and two together...Marte goes to the Fish, AJ goes to White Sox who then trade him to Philly for Wagner. Sound familiar? lolol Of course Gammons shilled for little Theo again. Video of Arroyo (no mention he lost yesterday), no mention of the Marlins refusal to do business with the Beantown Bullies, just a cryptic line that "the Marlins are holding out for the 'perfect' deal, they say they're happy to have him pitch for them in October". Poor Pete looks so bummed.
July 26, 200521 yr Author About half an hour ago on ESPN sport center Gammons siad the Marlins might keep Burnett cause the White Sox offer doens't include a starter(Marte, McCarthy) and the Red Sox offer doesn't include a reliver(Arroyo and SANCHEZ...DROOLS ). The two teams I hate the most in baseball are the Red Sox and Cubs but this offer is to good for us not to take. Why do we need a reliver anyways with Antonio Alfonseca coming back(I don't like him but many here do) and we could always trade for a another reliver and a starter like Mark Redman or Jason Johnson. I don't want to see Bazardo, Johnson, Allison, Tankersly, Garcia. Resop, or Messenger gone. No need to mention Hermida, Vargas, and Olsen cause they should be untouhable.
July 26, 200521 yr Author Also. The Marlin Man? Today, 05:03 PM Post #31? i'm sorry , my mistake, i meant to say On Base Percentage against, not batting average. the numbers i gave are the OBP against he allows. no, i dont think we can resign AJ, doesnt mean that arroyo isn't over rated as for better AL EAST pitchers: clement, bedard, chacin, mussina, johnson, kazmir, wang(when he wasn't injured), fossum have all pitched better than arroyo this year. this trade makes us better for next year, but not enough to so to make up for how much worse it will make us this year and I also think we will be able to get a better deal anyway. with all this said, i think AJ should be kept, and i think the FO is leaning towards keeping him for the year http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4153 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4416 If you look and compare Burnett and Arroyo both have a .311 OBP against them and Arroyo has a lower W.H.I.P. which means fewer man reach base of him than Burnett. And no way have Kazmir and Chacin pitch better than Arroyo. Bedard got hurt doens't have enough innings, Mussina and Fossum are very comparable to Bronson Arroyo. He beats them in some area's they beat him in others. johnson is better but he makes a ton. Clement has been the best pitcher on the Boston staff this year.
July 26, 200521 yr I don't want to see Bazardo, Johnson, Allison, Tankersly, Garcia. Resop, or Messenger gone. No need to mention Hermida, Vargas, and Olsen cause they should be untouhable. lol, well as long as you're not being overly stingy...
July 26, 200521 yr Author lol, well as long as you're not being overly stingy... Do you think Redman is worth any of those guys? espcially when teams are afraid to trade for A.J cause he might not sign a extension and by the way Burnett is the best pitcher on the Market as well.
July 26, 200521 yr About half an hour ago on ESPN sport center Gammons siad the Marlins might keep Burnett cause the White Sox offer doens't include a starter(Marte, McCarthy) and the Red Sox offer doesn't include a reliver(Arroyo and SANCHEZ...DROOLS ). The two teams I hate the most in baseball are the Red Sox and Cubs but this offer is to good for us not to take. Why do we need a reliver anyways with Antonio Alfonseca coming back(I don't like him but many here do) and we could always trade for a another reliver and a starter like Mark Redman or Jason Johnson. I don't want to see Bazardo, Johnson, Allison, Tankersly, Garcia. Resop, or Messenger gone. No need to mention Hermida, Vargas, and Olsen cause they should be untouhable. 874499[/snapback] There's no guarantee that AA comes back and pitches up to his potential. Unless you have some clairvoyance the rest of us don't, it's a 50/50 chance he can be THE MAN again. Don't get me wrong, I want him to come back strong and really contribute but with a few days left before the trade deadline it's time to shore up the pen. Whether you go Rferry's way, get a long relief guy, or you get another one inning 7th, 8th, 9th inning guy, we need help in the pen. You can't pitch Mecir, Mota and Jones every night. Messenger certainly isn't the answer. His fastball has zero, nada, zilch movement. Straight as a string. And he doesn't have the velocity to throw it by the best hitters in the league. I really like Resop's stuff but he needs more polishing. If you don't want to trade any of the players you listed above, how exactly do you get a Redman or Johnson ? Someone has to go to fill out the pen.
July 26, 200521 yr example for trading a very good pitcher at the deadline Randy Johnson to Houston from Seattle trade to Seattle Carlos Guillen,Freddy Garcia and John Halama this IMO is what Beinfest is waiting for... 874275[/snapback] If that's what your GM is waiting for, he has irrational expectations and is howling at the moon. The Seattle/Hou trade is an example of trading for a Great Dominant pitcher at the deadline. Burnett is a good pitcher. As it is, that was 2 top prospects and a soft-throwing decent pitching prospect (Halama). And the price for rents has gone down. Let's look at what Houston gave up for a dominant player last year: Dotel and a top catching prospect. Let's look at what Chicago offers for a good player this year: Marte and a top pitching prospect. Pratically the same deal (except that Marte is better than Dotel). I'm a Sox fan and I'm against the trade. But, the Marlins are getting more than fair value, in comparison to similar trades.
July 26, 200521 yr Author Marlins2003 Posted Today, 11:28 PM If you don't want to trade any of the players you listed above, how exactly do you get a Redman or Johnson ? Someone has to go to fill out the pen . Trade chips should be Brad McCan, Adam Bostick, Paul Mildren, Chris Mobley, Chris Aguila, etc. But none of the guys I mentioned above. Have you heard the rumors of Bigbie for Redman? since when does Bigbie have the potential or value that Bazardo, Johnson, Allison, etc do. What bothers me is that some of you guys want to give up the farm for players who ain't taht good then feel we ain't getting enough for our players so we should keep them. Relaity is Lowell sucks nobody wants him cause of his and contract, Encarnacion is playing over his head like Gonzalez and neither of them deserve 4-6 million a year, and we are getting good value from the Red Sox for Burnett.
July 26, 200521 yr Author DrBox Posted Today, 11:38 PM If that's what your GM is waiting for, he has irrational expectations and is howling at the moon. The Seattle/Hou trade is an example of trading for a Great Dominant pitcher at the deadline. Burnett is a good pitcher. As it is, that was 2 top prospects and a soft-throwing decent pitching prospect (Halama). And the price for rents has gone down. Let's look at what Houston gave up for a dominant player last year: Dotel and a top catching prospect. Let's look at what Chicago offers for a good player this year: Marte and a top pitching prospect. Pratically the same deal (except that Marte is better than Dotel). I'm a Sox fan and I'm against the trade. But, the Marlins are getting more than fair value, in comparison to similar trades. I agree with you. Some people here don't understand what equal value is an over value players just cause they play for us. At times I think some posters here are just as bad as the one's in the MLB.com forum.
July 26, 200521 yr At times I think some posters here are just as bad as the one's in the MLB.com forum. 874538[/snapback] I couldn't agree more.
July 26, 200521 yr I look at it like this folks. You have two choices before you, make the trade for Marte and McCarthy and you should be set next year. You need to find a top starter this year if you really wish to make a run. It might cost you McCarthy even to do that. If you make the deal with the BoSox, you will be better off next year also. But, you will need to find yourself a relief pitcher this year. Which might cost you Sanchez anyways. Basically in either package you are not getting fully what you need to be picking up. So with either package we are needing to find relief help anyways. If we are looking for this year and honestly think you can make that run this year. You keep AJ and run with it, trading off a top prospect (except olsen or Hermida, everyone else is sellable in my eyes) for relief like Baez, Everyday Eddie, Mesa, Batista, the others out there that are available, god I wish they had gotten Fuentes. If you think we arent gonna make it all the way, then make a trade with the chisox and see if they can find a way to flip them something else to try to get Anderson or another good solid prospect too. Sell off Jones, Enc and Moheler and Mota since you can get premium right now for all them with the demand in the market for relief pitching, starting pitching and a CF. You could get enough talent to stock our system for years, but at the cost of fan base. Now, personally from all I have read Beinfest and Samson think we are in. I agree with them and am ready for a run. We just need to add a solid lefty arm or good solid closer. PS the reason I mentioned Everyday eddie is rumors from earlier in the year. Plus his contract is set up around closing, if we got him put him as closer, jones as set up and mota as 7th AA as 6th if needed or spelling one of them. Bump when back is long relief, along with Vargas and mercir
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