On Baseball

Delgado Gets an E-3 for Picking the Marlins

 

by MURRAY CHASS

Published: August 16, 2005

THE man made a mistake; it's that simple. Carlos Delgado said in January that he signed with Florida rather than the Mets because he thought the Marlins had a better chance of going to the World Series. He thought wrong.

 

Yes, with Delgado in their lineup, the Marlins have been better than the Mets this season, but barely. Today the Marlins are in fourth place in the National League East, two games ahead of the Mets, but there have been days, most recently last month, when the Mets were ahead of the Marlins. In short, not much space has separated the teams at any time this season.

 

What might have happened if Delgado had signed with the Mets? They don't get a chance to do it over, but his bat would have looked good in the middle of the Mets' batting order. And with his bat absent from the Florida lineup, the Marlins might have had an offensive shortage.

 

Delgado is hitting .293 with 22 home runs and 78 runs batted in. He has a .556 slugging percentage and a .394 on-base percentage.

 

Want to know what the Mets' first basemen have done offensively? Actually, you might not. It's so bad that squeamish adults should skip ahead a few paragraphs.

 

The Mets' first basemen - that includes everyone who has played first and what they have done with their bats when they have played there - have been the puniest hitters in the National League. Their batting average, according to Elias Sports Bureau, is .216, which is 31 points lower than the next-worst team.

 

Their home run total of 11 and R.B.I. total of 39 are also the league's lowest. They have a weak .348 slugging percentage and a .290 on-base percentage.

 

Moving away from first base, the Mets have one player with a higher batting average than Delgado, David Wright (.305), and one with more home runs, Cliff Floyd (26). Wright and Floyd are tied for the team lead with 73 R.B.I., 5 fewer than Delgado.

 

It's little wonder that the Mets have had difficulty winning games. They make too many errors, their relief corps gives up too many runs and they score too few runs. Two of their last three losses were by scores of 2-1. One was Pedro Mart?nez's spoiled gem in Los Angeles on Sunday (he allowed only three base runners), and the other was in the game in San Diego in which Mike Cameron and Carlos Beltran had their devastating head-on collision while diving for a fly ball.

 

The Mets' hitters and relief pitchers have not been kind to Mart?nez, preventing the team from getting full value from the remarkable pitcher. Not that the Mets haven't derived great value on and off the field in the first year of his four-year, $53 million contract, but they should be better than 13-11 in his 24 starts.

 

He left four of his starts with leads and twice departed with the score tied - 2-2 and 3-3. The Mets lost all six of those games. Mart?nez has sustained losses of 2-1, 3-2 and 4-3. A Delgado hit here or there would have come in handy.

 

All good pitchers suffer occasionally from the inadequacies of their teams' bullpens or batting orders - look at Roger Clemens's experiences this season in Houston - but if the Mets had won three more of the games Mart?nez started, their record would be 62-55, and they would be only one game from the wild-card lead.

 

Without Delgado or a hitter of similar productivity, the Mets have not been able to rise above the .500 team that they are. The outfield wreck won't help.

 

Beltran may escape surgery and could play with protection for his fractured cheek, but Cameron is out for more than a month, and might not be able to come back at all this season.

 

In their absence last weekend in Los Angeles, Victor Diaz and Gerald Williams hit well. Diaz, whom the Mets like as a hitter, had five hits, including two home runs, in 11 at-bats and registered a 1.000 slugging percentage. Williams, hitting above his ability, collected three hits, including a home run, in 10 at-bats with an .800 slugging percentage.

 

Still, the Mets' lineup would be a lot more imposing with Delgado in it, and his chances of reaching the playoffs would have looked better if he were in that lineup.

 

As it is, his decision to sign with the Marlins has left him open to being traded if the Marlins don't get a new ballpark and don't want to pay the rest of his four-year, $52 million contract. The Marlins didn't include a no-trade clause in Delgado's contract, whereas the Mets had offered to give him veto power over being traded to all but a handful of teams.

 

But Delgado made his decision, and he and the Mets have had to live with it. Both could wind up suffering because of it.

 

 

 

 

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Somebody hand me a tissue, I think I'm going to shed a tear for them.

What this writer so painfully fails to mention is: the bats from two of our biggest power threats from last year, Lowell and Gonzalez, have gone completely silent. If those two had performed up to expectations, we would have a 5 or 6 game lead in the division. Pierre has not been his normal self, and Castillo is hurting. Lo Duca, Encarnacion and DELGADO have all missed time, as have Beckett, Willis went through a rough patch, and Moehler has slowed down. The Mutts are where they belong, in last place, after Pedro their whole pitching staff is garbage, they have an over the hill catcher who couldn't play defense in his prime behind the plate, and their $119 million dollar baby Beltran is putting up his normal #'s, too bad Minaya payed him based on ONE POSTSEASON.

 

Let's not forget, Mr. Writer guy, that the Marlins were picked to finish first by many BEFORE we even attempted to sign Delgado, and the Mets were picked by most if not all to finish 4th or dead last, even after you signed Pedro and Beltran.

HAHA last place for the Mutts.

 

They are just pissed because Beltran looks like their latest bust.

 

Sure Beltran's good, but is he earning his money yet? Not really.

not really worth the response.

Hey I like this topic. I can't stand the Mets fans. You should see how many of them go into the CBS Sportline Rumor Mill just to talk crap about how much better the Mets are than the rest of the NL East teams. I'm one of the few Marlins fans that fight back.

 

The worst thing about them is their absurd assessments of their own players. Here are some as follows that were ridiculous, particularly before the season:

 

"Piazza is the best catcher in the game."

"Mientkewics is more valuable than Delgado."

"Matsui is every bit as good as Luis Castillo."

"Cairo is a top 10 2B."

"Jose Reyes is one of the best leadoff hitters, only behind Ichiro, but clearly ahead of Damon, Pierre, Posednik, and Crawford. He's also the best defensive SS in the game."

"David Wright is the best 3B in baseball."

"Cliff Floyd is definitely better than the Marlins' Cabrera."

"Beltran is one of baseball's top 5 players."

"Cameron is one of the best defensive OFs in baseball and the best RF in the NL East."

"Kris Benson is a better #2 pitcher than the #2's on most MLB teams."

"The Mets pitching staff is one of the best 5."

"Looper is a top tier closer."

 

There are many more, but these I thought were priceless. And yes, Mets fans really said some of this crap on the CBS Rumor Mill.

 

Maybe all of us Marlins fans should combine and go there to battle them.

 

Anyway, the article doesn't surprise me because they have been bitching about it since it happened. Also, they have been highly critical of the Marlins because of it.

 

I see it this way, we are having a bad season, but at least we are still ahead of the Mets like we have been in most years since the Marlins inaugural season.

Hey I like this topic. I can't stand the Mets fans. You should see how many of them go into the CBS Sportline Rumor Mill just to talk crap about how much better the Mets are than the rest of the NL East teams. I'm one of the few Marlins fans that fight back.

 

The worst thing about them is their absurd assessments of their own players. Here are some as follows that were ridiculous, particularly before the season:

 

"Piazza is the best catcher in the game."

"Mientkewics is more valuable than Delgado."

"Matsui is every bit as good as Luis Castillo."

"Cairo is a top 10 2B."

"Jose Reyes is one of the best leadoff hitters, only behind Ichiro, but clearly ahead of Damon, Pierre, Posednik, and Crawford. He's also the best defensive SS in the game."

"David Wright is the best 3B in baseball."

"Cliff Floyd is definitely better than the Marlins' Cabrera."

"Beltran is one of baseball's top 5 players."

"Cameron is one of the best defensive OFs in baseball and the best RF in the NL East."

"Kris Benson is a better #2 pitcher than the #2's on most MLB teams."

"The Mets pitching staff is one of the best 5."

"Looper is a top tier closer."

 

There are many more, but these I thought were priceless. And yes, Mets fans really said some of this crap on the CBS Rumor Mill.

 

Maybe all of us Marlins fans should combine and go there to battle them.

 

Anyway, the article doesn't surprise me because they have been bitching about it since it happened. Also, they have been highly critical of the Marlins because of it.

 

I see it this way, we are having a bad season, but at least we are still ahead of the Mets like we have been in most years since the Marlins inaugural season.

903937[/snapback]

 

 

I'll answer those:

"Piazza is the best catcher in the game."

That's why Tom Pagnozzi had him smoked defensively, even though Pagnozzi could barely throw the ball back to the pitcher in his prime. And Piazza is also batting around .240 or .250

 

"Mientkewics is more valuable than Delgado."

The same guy who made a public statement about how the Twins would not trade him in the middle of them finalizing a deal with the Red Sox. At least he is good with the glove I guess.

 

"Matsui is every bit as good as Luis Castillo."

Ahh yes, the old boy they couldn't figure out where to stick, 2B or SS, who's mediocre at both, and was the topic of several trade rumors?

 

"Cairo is a top 10 2B."

Cairo is a good 2B, the Yanks should of held onto him, but he still would of lost the job to Cano, him and Womack are pretty much the same player. Sure, he might be # 2 or 3 in New York, but that aint saying much.

 

"Jose Reyes is one of the best leadoff hitters, only behind Ichiro, but clearly ahead of Damon, Pierre, Posednik, and Crawford. He's also the best defensive SS in the game."

He steals alot of bases,

 

"David Wright is the best 3B in baseball."

This is actually one of their more down to earth statements, because Wright will be very soon. But if Cab's moves there, he will be better.

 

"Cliff Floyd is definitely better than the Marlins' Cabrera."

At what? Defense if anything, but he still doesn't have a cannon like Cabrera.

 

"Beltran is one of baseball's top 5 players."

On the Astros 2004 playoff team maybe.

 

"Cameron is one of the best defensive OFs in baseball and the best RF in the NL East."

Maybe, but he was a better CF.

 

"Kris Benson is a better #2 pitcher than the #2's on most MLB teams."

Let's see, #2's that are better: Beckett, Hampton, Myers, Patterson, Morris, Oswalt, Prior, Eaton, Webb, Francis, whoever the #2 for the Dogers is: Penny or Lowe...and thats just in the NL

 

"The Mets pitching staff is one of the best 5."

Sure is, #4 or 5 in the NL East, that pitching staff outside of Pedro is garbage.

 

"Looper is a top tier closer."

Possibly top tier on the New York Mets

 

Just do what I do, remind them that we were picked to win the division before we even tried to sign Delgado, and they were picked to finish 4th or last even AFTER they signed Pedro and Beltran.

LOL...Tom Pagnozzi...I remember him.

 

Anyway, it's good to see alot of us agree on that Mets crap.

 

As for the article and others that appear in those New York media outlets; shouldn't we just regard all of that as fantasy fictional writing? Come on, with the stench of guys like Mike Lupica, how much fact can there be in anything that they write? We have more competence in the Miami Herald ( :blink: ) than those NY papers. And the turds that have been at 7 News over the years, like Rick Sanchez, are less biased ( :blink: ) ( :blink: ) than those NY news people. In short, I just take their work as good literature with some comedy relief. Wouldn't it be humorous, before we all spend a tough day at work, that we turned on 560 WQAM and listened to this writer call up Hank Goldberg to say the same crap that he put in that article. Hell, that would be a great way to start the day.

 

:thumbup

My friend that is a Mets fan insists that David Wright will be better than Cabrera.

 

He also says the Mets have more talent overall than the Marlins.

 

I just ignore him.

BS article.

 

IMHO, Delgado signed down here for 4 reasons:

1. Money, at the end of day he is making more due to taxes

2. Do not have to deal with the scrutiny of NYC fans and media

3. South Florida Latin Environment

4. Closer to PR

 

The excuse of winning, is just that an excuse

Yes, Delgado made a bad decision. Guerrero made a bad decision. Arod made a bad decision. Pavano made a bad decision. Castillo made a bad decision.

 

I guess they are not as lucky as Beltran, Pedro, Cameron and Looper.

I'd be mad too if on average 9 out of 10 players I signed was a bust.

Don't you all know that the only intelligent decision is to sign with the Mets because they have this special magic that makes ballplayers play better than they ever had before and they become so great that it can't even be seen in their stats. Ignore the rest of the world, the only people that know baseball are the ones in Flushing (the toilet) Meadows New York. See, Kris Benson and Victor Zambrano are really undercover 20 game winners like Ed Lynch, while Jose Reyes is the undercover superstar kind of like Gregg Jeffries was the undercover MVP many years ago. Also, don't argue, but Piazza is the secret gold glover just like Mackey Sasser was in his day with his incredible defensive skills. Oh, and forget Looper; he's every bit a Hall of Fame closer like Doug Sisk used to be. Finally, I'd definitely like to point out that Matsui is quietly the best 2B in MLB like Kelvin Chapman used to be too.

 

See, that Mets magic works.

 

Nah, it's just the drugs that they get on every street corner over there.

 

By the way, what's more interesting to watch at Shea Stadium; the Mets play baseball or the rats fight for food?

 

I'd say the rats.

 

:thumbup

met fans r just crybabys cuz they well never be as big as the yankees

I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Talk about a homer.

I'd get the biggest kick out of seeing the planes fly overhead. Although its just everyday business, it's more exciting than anything going on down on the field.

hahahaha, funny ass article...

 

note, not once did they say we are only 2.5 games out the wild card lead.. or the fact that we bascily choose our own destney... between sept 5th and 15th we play 3 games at was, 3 games at philly, and 4 games at houston....

 

we might be just a few games better than the muts, but we still have the best chance to win the wild card and go to the post season than they do....

 

i like reading bull s*** like that... makes me feel better, we all know there jelious

Bitter "Mets" fans? Because Murray Chass speaks for all Mets fans.

 

Honestly, 99% of us couldn't care less anymore.

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:lol :thumbup

hahahaha, were'nt they ahead of us for a total of like 5 days this season? what a bunch of tards.

Wow, Met fans are so lame. Take it from someone who lives in New York. They are just upset they will always be second class citizens here and well yeah they cry about everything. Delgado made the right choice. We all know that!

How did this degenerate into a thread ripping Mets fans? The article is written by a Mets beat writer- it mentions nothing of the so-called "bitter" fans.

by MURRAY CHASS

 

aka... c**k

This guy sounds like the New York version of Dan Le Bastard.

mets fans shouldnt be talking they spent all their money on beltran and pedro and the mets havent even reached first this year. even with delgado they still owuldve never made it.