Wow. Anyone have some OBP stats for him since the switch? It's gotta be over 50% of the time plus a steal tonight. Marlins2003. Where ya at? :whistle

Putting Luiy in the leadoff spot has been long overdue with his ability to get on base and Pierre's struggles this year.

 

Combine Luiy's (somewhat predictable) success in sparking the team when leading off and Pierre seeming to hit better recently while in the 7 spot, and hopefully the Luiy to leadoff is permanent for this year and next.

the icing on the cake is that JP is producing at the 7th spot, driving runs, etc.

Its worked for 3 games...I really love this lineup

 

Lets hope Jack keeps it the same

Watch the malicious intent on your post, Shamrock. :lol

 

Castillo - Hermida - Cabrera is a great top of the linup in my opinion.

Watch the malicious intent on your post, Shamrock. :lol

 

Castillo - Hermida - Cabrera is a great top of the linup in my opinion.

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friendly sniping.

So does this make Pierre the top trade bait in our offseason?

 

Not advocating giving him away, but some team is going to overpay for him.

So does this make Pierre the top trade bait in our offseason?

 

Not advocating giving him away, but some team is going to overpay for him.

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Does overpay mean taking Lowell off our hands? :mischief2

This one's for Money:

 

He is an OBP machine.

No matter who bats second, putting Luis in the leadoff spot and JP 7th has helped both players and it's the biggest reason why the current lineup has sparked the offense.

 

And yes, Luis = OBP machine.

So does this make Pierre the top trade bait in our offseason?

 

Not advocating giving him away, but some team is going to overpay for him.

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If we can get rid of Lowell's entire contract, I'm all for it. My only concern is who do we get to play CF next year? Enc will want too much and probably still isn't too happy with us after 2003.

 

I could dream about Johnny Damon, but that won't happen. Maybe try to sign Jacque Jones or Preston Wilson? If we could do that and have enough money freed up from Lowell to sign Kevin Millwood or Matt Morris to take over for AJ, I'd be very happy. :thumbup

 

Also, I hope Castillo can have some type of surgery in the offseason to finally recover. He looks painful trying to run. I'd be scared of having him as our leadoff hitter for the entire year next year if he still can't run.

you know at first i was skeptical of how this current lineup would workout..

 

but i gotta admit.. its worked out DAMN GOOD so far.. feels to me that our boys are getting some life in them again.. lets hope it holds up and we can at least win 2 / 3 from philly and 3 / 4 from houston on this road trip.. and even better a sweep in one of those series..

 

 

 

btw.. i love "the hunt for a teal october" i think im gonna make a window decal of that :lol

So does this make Pierre the top trade bait in our offseason?

 

Not advocating giving him away, but some team is going to overpay for him.

936027[/snapback]

 

If we can get rid of Lowell's entire contract, I'm all for it. My only concern is who do we get to play CF next year? Enc will want too much and probably still isn't too happy with us after 2003.

 

I could dream about Johnny Damon, but that won't happen. Maybe try to sign Jacque Jones or Preston Wilson? If we could do that and have enough money freed up from Lowell to sign Kevin Millwood or Matt Morris to take over for AJ, I'd be very happy. :thumbup

 

Also, I hope Castillo can have some type of surgery in the offseason to finally recover. He looks painful trying to run. I'd be scared of having him as our leadoff hitter for the entire year next year if he still can't run.

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I was thinking more along the lines of getting quality in return instead of dumping Lowell's contract. In the offseason, someone somewhere will take Lowell and 60% of his salary for nothing, no need to give Pierre away, he'd actually help a team. The only way I trade Pierre is if it gets him out of the division, and gets us either a solid top of the rotation guy, or a run producing SS. Then my Centerfielder would likely be Preston Wilson.

 

But the more I think about this, the less I like it...

Also, I hope Castillo can have some type of surgery in the offseason to finally recover. He looks painful trying to run. I'd be scared of having him as our leadoff hitter for the entire year next year if he still can't run.

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It's not so much that he can't lead off, because he's certainly done well enough leading off without being nearly as fast as "classic Luis Castillo" over the past few days. But without JP in the lineup, we really are missing that speed dimension to the offense, which I think is important to put pressure on the defense, even if not out of the leadoff hitter.

 

Also, why would we necessarily try to deal JP in the offseason anyway? He's signed through next year, why not at least talk to him and see what kind of money he's after? If it's too much, there's always the deadline.

So does this make Pierre the top trade bait in our offseason?

 

Not advocating giving him away, but some team is going to overpay for him.

936027[/snapback]

 

If we can get rid of Lowell's entire contract, I'm all for it. My only concern is who do we get to play CF next year? Enc will want too much and probably still isn't too happy with us after 2003.

 

I could dream about Johnny Damon, but that won't happen. Maybe try to sign Jacque Jones or Preston Wilson? If we could do that and have enough money freed up from Lowell to sign Kevin Millwood or Matt Morris to take over for AJ, I'd be very happy. :thumbup

 

Also, I hope Castillo can have some type of surgery in the offseason to finally recover. He looks painful trying to run. I'd be scared of having him as our leadoff hitter for the entire year next year if he still can't run.

936082[/snapback]

 

I was thinking more along the lines of getting quality in return instead of dumping Lowell's contract. In the offseason, someone somewhere will take Lowell and 60% of his salary for nothing, no need to give Pierre away, he'd actually help a team. The only way I trade Pierre is if it gets him out of the division, and gets us either a solid top of the rotation guy, or a run producing SS. Then my Centerfielder would likely be Preston Wilson.

 

But the more I think about this, the less I like it...

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I'd rather do it to entirely get rid of Lowell's contract. We'd then have the money we were going to have slotted for Lowell/Pierre/AJ to go after a front line pitcher (Millwood, Morris, maybe even Weaver) and a new CF. I'm frightened at the thought of having Vargas/Olsen/Valdez as our pitchers next year behind Willis/Beckett. A very good RH starting pitcher is much more valuable to me than Pierre/Lowell is if Castillo is able to run next year. If we have to pay a large portion of Lowell's contract, I don't think we could afford a guy like Millwood or Morris to stabilize our rotation next year.

 

1. Castillo

2. Hermida

3. Cabrera

4. Delgado

5. Preston Wilson/Jacque Jones

6. Lo Duca

7. Willingham/Conine (if he doesn't retire)

8. Andino or Gonzo

 

1. Beckett

2. Willis

3. Millwood/Morris

4. Vargas

5. Olsen

 

That is a solid team for next year.

I rather keep JP for 06

Also, I hope Castillo can have some type of surgery in the offseason to finally recover.? He looks painful trying to run.? I'd be scared of having him as our leadoff hitter for the entire year next year if he still can't run.

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It's not so much that he can't lead off, because he's certainly done well enough leading off without being nearly as fast as "classic Luis Castillo" over the past few days. But without JP in the lineup, we really are missing that speed dimension to the offense, which I think is important to put pressure on the defense, even if not out of the leadoff hitter.

 

Also, why would we necessarily try to deal JP in the offseason anyway? He's signed through next year, why not at least talk to him and see what kind of money he's after? If it's too much, there's always the deadline.

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These are my reasons that I'm open to dealing Pierre if Castillo will be healthy enough to be our full time leadoff hitter next year.

 

1. I don't think we can afford what idiot teams like the Yankees would throw at him after next year.

 

2. I don't think he's nearly as good as he was prior to this year. I'm not confident in him becoming a normal .300+ hitter over the course of a long term deal.

 

3. The only way we can get rid of Lowell's entire contract is to include Pierre for low level prospects. The Yankees would do it, IMO. I think the only way we can afford a great #2/#3 starter (Millwood/Morris type) in the offseason is to clear all of Lowell's contract.

 

I guess it is how you view certain players. I don't think Pierre/Gonzo are worth what some teams will pay. I'd rather keep our money tied up in our top three starters (we need to sign Willis and Beckett long term, IMO) and in offensive vets I really trust to produce in a long term deal (Cabrera/Delgado/Castillo/Lo Duca). I don't see Pierre or Gonzo in that category.

Here's the thing though, trading Pierre actually helps another team, so to simply have them take Lowell isn't enough for me, considering the ramifications it'll have as far as public perceptions go, and in the clubhouse with guys like Dontrelle and Miguel. He has to be traded for a guy who's coming in next year and contributing. I'm talking about Pierre for Renteria (I can dream, right?) or Ervin Santana or Daniel Cabrera.

Here's the thing though, trading Pierre actually helps another team, so to simply have them take Lowell isn't enough for me, considering the ramifications it'll have as far as public perceptions go, and in the clubhouse with guys like Dontrelle and Miguel. He has to be traded for a guy who's coming in next year and contributing. I'm talking about Pierre for Renteria (I can dream, right?) or Ervin Santana or Daniel Cabrera.

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Willis and Cabrera aren't going anywhere if we trade Pierre. They'll get over it if we're winning and we offer them nice deals. I don't worry about that. If we can't resign Pierre after next year, they'd be just as pissed. It will pass.

 

I don't worry about it helping other teams. We have to worry about our team. If we have enough money to sign a top pitcher and keep Pierre, that's fine with me. I just don't know if that is possible if we have to pay 40-60% of Lowell's contract. Even getting rid of AJ/Gonzo/part of Lowell, I don't think we'd have enough to sign a solid pitcher and sign a good LF once we move Cabrera to third.

 

Beinfest will have a difficult offseason. That's for sure.

you guys don't take into consideration that Loui hasn't been 100% healthy for the last 2 seasons. that could bite us on the rear end, if we don't have Pierre next year. Pierre is a very durable player.

 

Who is going to play CF?

 

Enc is gone, and I don't want to hear Eric Reed or Abercombie as replacements

Here's the thing though, trading Pierre actually helps another team, so to simply have them take Lowell isn't enough for me, considering the ramifications it'll have as far as public perceptions go, and in the clubhouse with guys like Dontrelle and Miguel.? He has to be traded for a guy who's coming in next year and contributing.? I'm talking about Pierre for Renteria (I can dream, right?) or Ervin Santana or Daniel Cabrera.

936150[/snapback]

 

Willis and Cabrera aren't going anywhere if we trade Pierre. They'll get over it if we're winning and we offer them nice deals. I don't worry about that. If we can't resign Pierre after next year, they'd be just as pissed. It will pass.

 

I don't worry about it helping other teams. We have to worry about our team. If we have enough money to sign a top pitcher and keep Pierre, that's fine with me. I just don't know if that is possible if we have to pay 40-60% of Lowell's contract. Even getting rid of AJ/Gonzo/part of Lowell, I don't think we'd have enough to sign a solid pitcher and sign a good LF once we move Cabrera to third.

 

Beinfest will have a difficult offseason. That's for sure.

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Maybe this down year will prompt us to offering Pierre an affordable three year deal, so we may really be kicking the tires over nothing. Personally, I'd like to get the Yankees and Red Sox bidding against each other (maybe throw the Orioles in for good measure, but we know they're too f'd up to actually do something proactive that'll help them).

 

Either way, this is really probably premature.

you guys don't take into consideration that Loui hasn't been 100% healthy for the last 2 seasons. that could bite us on the rear end, if we don't have Pierre next year. Pierre is a very durable player.

 

Who is going to play CF?

 

Enc is gone, and I don't want to hear Eric Reed or Abercombie as replacements

936164[/snapback]

 

Preston Wilson, or maybe the player we acquire in the Pierre trade. This isn't about a payroll dump, it's about trying to add thump because it seems that Castillo and Hermida is a legit 1-2 in front of Cabrera and Delgado.

I dont want Millwood or Morris. Neither have shown the ability as of late to be a #2 pitcher. We could move Aguila into CF and he'd produce. If we did a trade with the Yanks that gave them Pierre and that brought Pavano back, I'd be happy tho.

I dont want Millwood or Morris.? Neither have shown the ability as of late to be a #2 pitcher.? We could move Aguila into CF and he'd produce.? If we did a trade with the Yanks that gave them Pierre and that brought Pavano back, I'd be happy tho.

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Millwood has pitched better than AJ or Beckett this year. Morris has pitched almost as well as Beckett. If you don't want those guys, I don't know who you think we can sign to be our #3 guy at a managable price. Those guys blow away Vargas/Olsen/Valdez/Moehler. It isn't like we can make a trade for Santana.

 

It amuses me that you'd want Pavano back but don't want Millwood or Morris. Those two are better than Pavano will ever dream of being.

Here's the thing though, trading Pierre actually helps another team, so to simply have them take Lowell isn't enough for me, considering the ramifications it'll have as far as public perceptions go, and in the clubhouse with guys like Dontrelle and Miguel.? He has to be traded for a guy who's coming in next year and contributing.? I'm talking about Pierre for Renteria (I can dream, right?) or Ervin Santana or Daniel Cabrera.

936150[/snapback]

 

Willis and Cabrera aren't going anywhere if we trade Pierre. They'll get over it if we're winning and we offer them nice deals. I don't worry about that. If we can't resign Pierre after next year, they'd be just as pissed. It will pass.

 

I don't worry about it helping other teams. We have to worry about our team. If we have enough money to sign a top pitcher and keep Pierre, that's fine with me. I just don't know if that is possible if we have to pay 40-60% of Lowell's contract. Even getting rid of AJ/Gonzo/part of Lowell, I don't think we'd have enough to sign a solid pitcher and sign a good LF once we move Cabrera to third.

 

Beinfest will have a difficult offseason. That's for sure.

936161[/snapback]

 

Maybe this down year will prompt us to offering Pierre an affordable three year deal, so we may really be kicking the tires over nothing. Personally, I'd like to get the Yankees and Red Sox bidding against each other (maybe throw the Orioles in for good measure, but we know they're too f'd up to actually do something proactive that'll help them).

 

Either way, this is really probably premature.

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If we can sign Pierre to a deal similar to Castillo, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to pay the guy 6-8 million a year, which I'm sure the Yanks will offer in a second if he becomes a FA. He isn't worth it, IMO.